If LFS incorporates an excellent mountain course, I won't mind paying 10% over the current price for the license.
No, there's no point using more than 98RON PULP for your street car anyway.
That's why you use 108 RON fuel in the first place. I was just illustrating a point. 
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Until rain and wet tracks are simulated and we're forced to use wet tires.
Actually, race fuels with 108 octane are utterly unsuitable for your average family car It detonates real late, but burns at a relatively slow rate, screwing up your spark plugs real quick.
I still fondly remember the last track from NFS 3 course. That mountain course was the one of my all time favouries.
If LFS comes up with any circuit of that nature, it'll be THAT much closer to the perfect racing sim.
If LFS comes up with any circuit of that nature, it'll be THAT much closer to the perfect racing sim.
Pure genius! I wish I thought of that.
Honestly, I love your suggestion. Always wondered how good the LX-6 could be if given some appropriately sticky tires to show the full potential of its chasis.
How about LX-4 with slicks if the LX-6 proves to fast? Could be what we need.
Just add roll cages and other standard racing equipment and wallop, EXTREMLY fun non-downforce RWD cars!
Honestly, I love your suggestion. Always wondered how good the LX-6 could be if given some appropriately sticky tires to show the full potential of its chasis.
How about LX-4 with slicks if the LX-6 proves to fast? Could be what we need.
Just add roll cages and other standard racing equipment and wallop, EXTREMLY fun non-downforce RWD cars!
Simple, beacuse at 300+bhp FWD is utterly junk. Oh, FXR is NOT FWD. It's AWD.
However, at anything under 260hp, FWDs dominate undoubtly. XF GTi vs XR? XF owns. RB4 vs XR GTT vs FXO? FXO owns, agains.
Since LFS is a sim, it can't simply disregard Newtonian mechanics like NFS:U. No, there's no way to make a 400hp Honda Civic work in LFS. There were rumours about attempts at making a FWD FXR instead of the current (correctly
) AWD version. They dropped it cause it simply wouldn't work. Anyway, rumours aren't the point. The point is at anything that weighs close to road cars and has under 260hp, FWD dominates in LFS.
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Some of you might have mentioned why about how the FXO has anything to do with this thread? Well, TBH, EVERYTHING.
I'm simply citing an obvious and important historical fact that some seem to be completely oblivious of. It's a fact that LFS has a history of overcompensating for inherent FWD defeciencies to the point where the RWDs are rendered hopelessly slow (relatively speaking of course).
The reason I'm trying to raise this INVINCIBLE FXO issue is to stop history from repeating itself. The TBO class is currently owned by the FXO in all arenas except the rallycross (RB4). As some of you here mentioned, the overpowered FWD cars don't suffer from severe front tire wear problems anymore, so it only gets worst with the length of the race.
As some more of you have mentioned, why bother to make a supposedly fun RWD competitor for the non-downforce slick-tired class when it'll be the same FWD dominance phenomena repeating itself. First people would enjoy the new car, only to discover that it is 1 second SLOWER per minute on all circuits compared to its FWD rivals. Why bother? The developers would have been better off perfecting the aero models for the downforce cars. I currently don't drive the GTRs too much because of their srangely generic aero and complete lack of pitch sensitivity. Well, at least the BF1 has pretty good aero.
Again, I refuse to vote because my vote would be treated as irrelevant anyway. Even if our RWD wish does come true, it'll be the same pattern as the current TBO cars, so forget it.
I'm simply citing an obvious and important historical fact that some seem to be completely oblivious of. It's a fact that LFS has a history of overcompensating for inherent FWD defeciencies to the point where the RWDs are rendered hopelessly slow (relatively speaking of course).
The reason I'm trying to raise this INVINCIBLE FXO issue is to stop history from repeating itself. The TBO class is currently owned by the FXO in all arenas except the rallycross (RB4). As some of you here mentioned, the overpowered FWD cars don't suffer from severe front tire wear problems anymore, so it only gets worst with the length of the race.
As some more of you have mentioned, why bother to make a supposedly fun RWD competitor for the non-downforce slick-tired class when it'll be the same FWD dominance phenomena repeating itself. First people would enjoy the new car, only to discover that it is 1 second SLOWER per minute on all circuits compared to its FWD rivals. Why bother? The developers would have been better off perfecting the aero models for the downforce cars. I currently don't drive the GTRs too much because of their srangely generic aero and complete lack of pitch sensitivity. Well, at least the BF1 has pretty good aero.
Again, I refuse to vote because my vote would be treated as irrelevant anyway. Even if our RWD wish does come true, it'll be the same pattern as the current TBO cars, so forget it.
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No surprise. You forgot to specify other variables such as driver skill, tires, suspension tune, engine power, weight, etc.
Seriously, given that driver skill was similiar and that both cars had similiar power, weight, suspension performance and tires, the RWD is always faster, given that none of them are seriously overpowered or underpowered. All else equal, RWD wins hands down. Maybe that friend of yours just spent some major $$ on a Koni coilover kit?
Anyway, the RX7 isn't that fast or powerful vs the newer cars anyway whilst in stock form. A well driven and tuned new Type R can easily beat any stock RX-7 (again assuming both drivers are highly skilled).
Well, at least until the front tires die.
Seriously, given that driver skill was similiar and that both cars had similiar power, weight, suspension performance and tires, the RWD is always faster, given that none of them are seriously overpowered or underpowered. All else equal, RWD wins hands down. Maybe that friend of yours just spent some major $$ on a Koni coilover kit?
Anyway, the RX7 isn't that fast or powerful vs the newer cars anyway whilst in stock form. A well driven and tuned new Type R can easily beat any stock RX-7 (again assuming both drivers are highly skilled).
Well, at least until the front tires die.
The FXO is basically a 240+hp Toyota Camry with massive 255 size tires (no wonder its outcorners RB4 and XR GTT).
This class really needs an RWD contender, but even if it does happen the developers would most likely nerf it to hopelessness anyway in an effort to compensate for the inherent dynamic superiority of RWD. So unless there is any chance that this won't happen (historically this hasn't been the case), I simply can't vote with confidence.
This class really needs an RWD contender, but even if it does happen the developers would most likely nerf it to hopelessness anyway in an effort to compensate for the inherent dynamic superiority of RWD. So unless there is any chance that this won't happen (historically this hasn't been the case), I simply can't vote with confidence.
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Wow! With that kind of attitude, no wonder we're losing license sales.
Guys, it's better to welcome people then act like a bunch of jerks (I get too much of that in RL anyway). It generates a much more positive, welcoming and productive atmosphere. If I read that thread before I got my S2 license, I would have just forgotten about LFS because this community is overpopulated by jerks.
Downhill == wrong way? When would you guys learn that the earth is NOT FLAT? Seesh.
This is an improvement suggestions thread, not a "pick on the demo racer" thread.
Guys, it's better to welcome people then act like a bunch of jerks (I get too much of that in RL anyway). It generates a much more positive, welcoming and productive atmosphere. If I read that thread before I got my S2 license, I would have just forgotten about LFS because this community is overpopulated by jerks.
Downhill == wrong way? When would you guys learn that the earth is NOT FLAT? Seesh.
This is an improvement suggestions thread, not a "pick on the demo racer" thread.
The poll was about drift only tracks, not mountain passes. If this thread was about a mountain pass style track like the Japanses stages of the WRC, the poll results could be massively different.
A mountain pass style tarmac track is a MUCH better idea, since it satisfies pretty much everyone from drifters to circuit racers to serious rally drivers (like ME! ).
A little poll:
Would you guys like me to start a real poll on a mountain pass style track (not this drift only track madness)? If I get 3 agreements or more, I'll gladly start a new thread on mounain passes, NOT DRIFT ONLY.
A mountain pass style tarmac track is a MUCH better idea, since it satisfies pretty much everyone from drifters to circuit racers to serious rally drivers (like ME!
). A little poll:
Would you guys like me to start a real poll on a mountain pass style track (not this drift only track madness)? If I get 3 agreements or more, I'll gladly start a new thread on mounain passes, NOT DRIFT ONLY.
I say forget it, cause they'll make it significantly inferior (AKA massively slower) to the FWD cars anyway. Ah, the invincible FXO syndrome. At more than 1 second faster than RB4 and 0.5 seconds FASTER than the XR GTT on BL, it's a joke.
But I do agree that LFS is currently too FWD biased and could use a well tuned Porsche 944 lookalike.
But I do agree that LFS is currently too FWD biased and could use a well tuned Porsche 944 lookalike.
Face it, curent levels of steering lock in S2 are far from unrealistic. At maximum lock, all road car based vehicles in LFS have turning circles pretty similiar to RL counterparts anyway. Just try the TBO class cars and none of them have turning circles that deviate wildly from what one could reasonably expect.
There is simply no good reason to change max lock angles currently available.
There is simply no good reason to change max lock angles currently available.
That's why Porsches are setup to understeer, since their pendulum like rears swng around a lot anyway.
Front heaviness causes understeer, as that massive front mass is reluctant to turn. To compensate, the car's suspension is set to cause oversteer.
Front heaviness causes understeer, as that massive front mass is reluctant to turn. To compensate, the car's suspension is set to cause oversteer.
The rear wing was simply used to relieve excess oversteer at high speeds. since all WRC cars are front heavy anyway, they are usually set to oversteer quite a bit to aid turn in and exit.
The wing on Solberg's Subaru is chiefly to stabilize the rear. It's no surprise that he complains of the car being harder to drive without it, especially at the higher speed sections.
The downforce to weight ratio of WRC cars are no where close to 1 even at top speed. At attempt to attach chin spoilers would be futile, since they'll only survive until the next jump.
The wing on Solberg's Subaru is chiefly to stabilize the rear. It's no surprise that he complains of the car being harder to drive without it, especially at the higher speed sections.
The downforce to weight ratio of WRC cars are no where close to 1 even at top speed. At attempt to attach chin spoilers would be futile, since they'll only survive until the next jump.
That's where the pits should be.
Just open a poll ad see what happens.
Just open a poll ad see what happens.
Moot question. They are, strictly speaking, drifting anyway. The only way to completely avoid all sideways motion is to drive like a granny. Scandinavian flick ("feint drift") through the hairpins perfectly and you'll see why Scandinavians historically dominate snow stages.
On tarmac events, fastest is usually smooth and neutral, until you reach that ultra-tight switchback...
It's just a function of lateral grip. On gravel and snow surfaces where longitudinal grip exceeds lateral grip, controlled drifts (not all over the place tail wagging) are the fastest. On tarmac events where lateral grip is as good or better, smooth and neutral dominates until that 2-lane wide hairpin turns up. Now where's the handbrake...
Remember, WRC cars are practically aero-downforce free, especially on non-tarmac tracks. Significant downforce would wreck havoc with suspensions as downforce grows with the square of speed, causing supension compression, the last thing you'll need to survive that bump...
The reason High downforce cars don't drift is because of their reliance on aero-downforce. A few CFD tests with an F-1 style wing will quicky show that wings don't like yaw angles greater than 2 degrees.
On tarmac events, fastest is usually smooth and neutral, until you reach that ultra-tight switchback...
It's just a function of lateral grip. On gravel and snow surfaces where longitudinal grip exceeds lateral grip, controlled drifts (not all over the place tail wagging) are the fastest. On tarmac events where lateral grip is as good or better, smooth and neutral dominates until that 2-lane wide hairpin turns up.
Now where's the handbrake...Remember, WRC cars are practically aero-downforce free, especially on non-tarmac tracks. Significant downforce would wreck havoc with suspensions as downforce grows with the square of speed, causing supension compression, the last thing you'll need to survive that bump...
The reason High downforce cars don't drift is because of their reliance on aero-downforce. A few CFD tests with an F-1 style wing will quicky show that wings don't like yaw angles greater than 2 degrees.
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A faster lap time is always a faster laptime, unless the temporal mechanics at the region by which the laptime was achieved was somehow warped.
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zetecr, you've really nailed it.
WRC fun NEVER gets OLD!
WRC fun NEVER gets OLD!
Which is such a trajedy, because the word drifting and its meaning were in existance well before this overcommercialized junk. When one forgets the origin and history of something, trajedy is the only possible result.
Back in Nuvolari's era, race drifting was exactly what he did as a result of his persuit of faster driving.
The meaning of the word drifting has been severely warped thanks againt to mindless pop culture. Just to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, when I say drift, I mean it's original meaning(teathering at the edge of grip, the edge of control). That tire smoking tail wagging madness is more accurately called SLIDING in racing terms.
On the contrary Blowtus, I understand perfectly.
Back in Nuvolari's era, race drifting was exactly what he did as a result of his persuit of faster driving.
The meaning of the word drifting has been severely warped thanks againt to mindless pop culture. Just to be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, when I say drift, I mean it's original meaning(teathering at the edge of grip, the edge of control). That tire smoking tail wagging madness is more accurately called SLIDING in racing terms.
On the contrary Blowtus, I understand perfectly.
I'm saying don't judge drifting based on the overcommercialized sideways for the sake of sideways junk. Judge it as another form of vehicular behaviour.
WRC style drifting... Now that's REAL DRIFTING.
WRC style drifting... Now that's REAL DRIFTING.
I'm saying that his 4-wheel drifts are a natural result of trying to go faster than everyone else, not artificially induced as todays so-called drifters.
True, he has no intention to show off, unlike todays increasingly ignorant yet arrogant kids. I'm in university and you'll be stunned at the lack of fundamental understanding in almost everything the majority of the people(students and teachers included) here show. It's just a natural result of getting the most out of the relatively low grip cars of his time. And yes, he must be one of the greatest race drivers of all time.
True, he has no intention to show off, unlike todays increasingly ignorant yet arrogant kids. I'm in university and you'll be stunned at the lack of fundamental understanding in almost everything the majority of the people(students and teachers included) here show. It's just a natural result of getting the most out of the relatively low grip cars of his time. And yes, he must be one of the greatest race drivers of all time.
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