What mod is that?
It seems many mods have bad LODs compared to the standard cars.

Quote from farcar :

This is still happening btw.
I'm a layman, but it seems to be LOD2 where the body disappears, then it reappears when LOD3 kicks in.

With the "new" ingame viewer it is easy to toggle between LOD 1,2,3. At LOD2 the whole engine is removed..that seems to be too drastic. Maybe at LOD2 the engine should be a grey block or something.

Also does the mod miss skin mapping? The generated templates are empty except for some nonsense scribble in one corner.

Maybe it is just me but the view from the cockpit seems very limited.
The wide A-pillars block the view quite a bit.

Thanks for explaining and the youtube links.

The rear of your vehicle currently looks like this:

There is a double wishbone suspension. Each wheel can move indepedent from the other wheel.
That means the axle is not a solid piece, there needs to be a coupling that allows the axle to "bend" at (at least two) points where the two green circles are. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint )
The problem: At the position where the joint needs to be, is also the chain drive.
The chaindrive would need to be more towards the middle but then it would collide with the chasis. The chain can not be more towards the outside because that part of the axle does not line up with the engine. (not parallel)
In your model the chain also clips into the suspension bars.

So how do these vehicles do it?
I looked at several photos and it seems:
All vehicles with side-mounted engines do not use double wishbone suspension. There use something simpler:

(from your video)
green: solid axle without joints/couplings.
red: chaindrive
blue: single brake disk. one brake for both wheels. This works because there is no differential gear.
yellow: coils for suspension. I think the whole axle can only swing up/down - like in a motorcycle.
But it can not even "twist", or not much: I do not see how the chaindrive would work if the axle does not always stay parallel to the chasis.

another picture:



A few cars do use double wishbones, but they all seem to combine it with a rear mounted engine.
That way the chaindrive can be in the middle. Basically like the MRT5.




pictures from http://formula5metro.com.ar

I think he is actually looking for a drag insim app?
I vaguely remember demo "drag" servers that used the Blackwood straight as drag strip.
Demo does not have layout editor, instead they use insim as workaround. It tells you where to line up at the start and also displays a countdown and shows the times. (from chicane to brige or such)

This looks similiar, I did not test it: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89909

Last edited by Gutholz, Tue 19 Apr 2022, 23:50.

Missing skin support and LOD.
Great details and nice cockpit, the dashboard gives me kitchen mixer vibes.
Very wobbly to drive with the default setup, laptimes improve a lot with lowering&stiffening everything. (good example why LFS needs limited or fixed setups imo)
take care!

The description says "Central driver position" but it really is right-hand-drive. Can you make driver-side swappable?
Respect for the original 3d model.

Nice details and I like to see more low cost race cars.
The side-mounted engine is interesting, is that based on any existing vehicle? I know some sprintcars have sidemounted engines because they only turn left (ovals) and their V8 engines are heavy.
Also go-karts, but this is larger.

The car has interesting and unique design features. But that makes me wonder if it would work like that in real life.

1) The chasis is too small, too low. The driver's bottom and feet are sticking through the floor. At the feet it would need bit more space for pedals and steering mechanism, so the front can not be so pointy.

2) The belt/chain from engine to axle:
-The chain touches the suspension.
-The drive axles must follow the up&down movement of the supension. So it needs some joint. But *right at the point* where this joint would need to be, attaches the pinion for the chain.

3) The U-pipe of the exhaust pipe looks fragile and prone to be damaged in crashes. Maybe if the exhaust attachs to back of cylinder then it could just do a 90° turn and end behind the seat. It would be better protected.

4) The mounting place for the fuel tank also unusually high. Is it meant to be gravity fed? Race cars want lower center of gravity. It also could be damaged in case of rollover and is quite close to the driver's head.

5) The rollbar is too low, head still touches the ground.

That said, I think it is okay have a vehicle with flaws, afterall this represents a low-cost hobby formular. And maybe they do not care that much about safety and rollbars, afterall LFS is a fictional perfect world where nobody gets hurt in crashes

Hi,
Your clutch is overheated and now it is slipping. To avoid that let go off the gas pedal for a short moment while changing gears.

Maybe these packs:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92766-Road-Going-setups
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/87124-Default-setups-for-road-race-cars

This thread was an attempt at a "neutral" setup for the FZR:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/87943-all-around-neutral-steer-FZR

Or perhaps better, just pick a proper setup from https://www.lfs.net/files/setups
Maybe Blackwood or Westhill (National) sets, because those are tracks with average mix of turns and straight parts so it will work reasonably well on other tracks.

I think Sinanju drives with keyboard (sometimes mouse) so his steering movement is more jerky/rapid than with a wheel.

I noticed for several mods strange things happen at LOD2: Some textures get flipped.
I do not want to spam comments in every thread , so instead this thread.


Example, here the whole top view is mirrored:

but sometimes it is just small parts of the side or such.

Latest LFS patch has an ingame viewer that can toggle level of detail.
Other cars I remember with same problem:
WESSEX R69SP
CAMMERA 730 TURBO
FT1R
VEIKKO 6000
...

There are also many cars with no LOD2 or LOD2 that is just a black or uni-colored blob.
LOD are important for the appearance of the car when it is far away.
Depending on the skin it could potentially look really ugly if the textures are flipping around.

At LOD2, the skin texture at front right gets flipped.
(note the "FT1R" on default skin, it is backwards)

The last LFS patch has a "viewer" mode in garage.
It has buttons to switch detail levels.
I noticed your mod has something strange happening to the textures at LOD 2. All the top textures (roof, hood) get flipped.

Quote from adirany :

Can you race again in a simulator that contain an ambulance mod.

Yes.
Just use a different vehicle.

Meanwhile in Assetto Corsa:

rFactor:

Such stuff exists for every game. At least in LFS you have filters, ratings and installing a mod takes only seconds.

If you ignore the whole mod system because you dislike some mods then you are missing out on good cars, too.
It is like never again listening to music because once you heard a bad song.

Quote from rane_nbg :

Hi, you should know that almost all world records in lfs are done with exatctly the same controls setup like yours. Especially, the demo cars are much much more easier to drive with mouse+keys.

I agree that lower power cars can be managed with mouse or even keyboard.
But I clicked through the hotlap charts and most WR and fast times are marked "w" for wheel. With only a few mouse drivers sprinkled inbetween.

In my opinion the big advantage of wheel is not in hotlapping. Hotlapping is basically learning that one excact line and unlimited retries until you get that one perfect run. It helps little in actual racing. In a race one perfect lap means nothing, instead you need many laps that do not have to be 100% at the limit but rather each lap has to be good enough.
You can not always drive the same line because other cars are in the way, you still have to make the turn despite missing the braking point, you have to recover from small and big mistakes. (instead of restarting), you have to fight for positions.
That is where wheel is in my experience much better than mouse. Sometimes mouse drivers do fast times in qualy but then in the race they do not always do as well and have higher DNF rates.

13" screen is tiny. For racing a big screen helps because you can see the apex of turns much better and also see cars beside you. There is a reason why any serious racing sim has support for multi-screen and/or VR. Headphones also help to hear where other cars are.

Multiple high quality mods have been made.
I think nobody can seriously disagree, that those are a great addition to LFS?
For example currently the E-Challenger series or the Rallyecross championship would not be possible without their respective cars.
If you read some threads or discord chat then you will see how people try to get details as close as possibe.
(taking meassurements of real cars, looking at suspension diagrams etc)

So that leaves the question, what about the bad mods? Why are there airplanes and other nonsense?
I think those mods fall into several categories:

1) People are learning the tools.
For example nikopdr writes about his racing lawnmover:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/B894E9
"made as a learning practise to get used to the functions of the new LFS editor."
Such vehicle is good as first project because it is less complex than modeling a full sized car.
It is very likely that most first attempts a creating a LFS vehicle never get finished or do not get published. But if it turns out decent enough, why not publish it?

2) Experiments
An old topic in LFS forum was "A real life F1 car can drive upside down on the ceiling. Can the LFS BMW F1 do that, too?"
Once the layout-editor allowed to create a suitable track with ramps, it was tried - it worked.
So the next step is: What happens if a LFS car gets negative downforce - like an airplane?
It was only a matter of time until somebody would try it out.
How does LFS physics handle vehicles it was not meant for, like heavy trucks, busses or dragsters?
Some people just like pushing the game physics like that.

3) Mods that are basically LFS cars with small modifications:
Either again, it is people learning the tools with small projects.
Or it is just players who always wished that their favorite LFS car had a different engine or whatever.
Those mods can be filtered out by the "Tweak mods" filter.

4) For the lols.
Some users seem already familiar enough with the editor that they can create new mods without too much effort.
So they make a driveable trashbin just for amusement.

5) Low barrier to entry.
The editors are not that easy to use. But they seem userfriendly enough that many people can important some random 3D model from the internet, throw together some chasis and engine and make something that drivers.
..and so people do just that. Results may vary, some people do not really understand licenes and so on.
But it is the same story everywhere when people learn new skills. Not only in LFS but anywhere.
Millions of terrible stuff gets created daily by newbies: Horrible photoshops, awful code gets written, ear-hurting music is created. But people are proud and happy with their creations. Some will get better and eventually create content that others will enjoy too.

6) Cruisers
Some players like their cruise servers. They want as many different road-worthy vehicles as possible, physics do not matter that much. It is more important to have ambulances or cement mixer trucks for roleplay.
It is not my style of playing but really: The mods list comes with pictures. You can see that it is a delivery truck before downloading the mod. Just scroll past it.


The people who create silly mods are not trolls.
The guy who made the airplane also made a serious gokart:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods?user=PedroXDBR

Look at the mods published by Jake_Blasted:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods?user=Jake_Blasted
He made a tank and trucks.
And also he made the P166 and P126: Two good quality vintage racers in a quality comperable to LFS original cars.

Thats a strange looking miniature Lotus Elise

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Better car damage - better carbody damage (Strange things happen in mods when high poly mesh get damaged)

That is usually an error in the mod and creators can fix it:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1986239#post1986239

I see you have already started on the model but maybe for next project
How about a rear-engine layout? Like Auto Union Typ C:

view from all sides:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Autounion_TypC_BasicInfos_noBG_01.jpg

Or this Alfa:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Alfa_Romeo_Tipo_512

You can use H-shifter with any type of gearbox. Of course it will be a bit strange in some cases, like motorcycles or modern F1.

Of the official cars: I counted 12.
All the roadcars, the two roadsters, two of the GTR.

Of the mod cars:
Maybe 50%, there are too many to count.
It shows transmission type if you click on the pictures at https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods

Single seaters with H-pattern:
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/CFB38F
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/2CFDA1
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/18CF01
https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/6786C3
I might have missed some.

Quote :

Much bigger games and companies have no issue with it

That is not true.
The difference is maybe that most games have no official modsystem or automatic download.
Instead mods are usually hosted on external player-run websites. Such websites are much harder to shut down because anyone can create a new one or re-upload the mod to a filehosting service. But that does not make it legal. And sometimes they do get shut down.

Also when you look at the example games like BeamNG, there is always guidelines like this: https://wiki.beamng.com/Modding_Guidelines.html#To_avoid_.E2.9D.8C

As someone who also played rFactor (which has tons of mods):
It does have the same issues with copyright. The only difference is that unlike LFS, rF does not have an automatic mod download hosted on the official website.
On websites that hosted rF mods it was not uncommon to read threads like this:
https://www.isrtv.com/forums/topic/11732-rfactor-f1-mods-do-not-post-here/

Quote :

Snowrunner - for example - also has official support for vehicle mods. People modify licensed trucks from the game and release it on the official mod repository:
https://snowrunner.mod.io/
Players put custom wheels on them, bumpers, engines, paintjobs and attachments. Some even turn licensed vehicles into monster trucks

But from the comment section it seems they also have restrictions:

Quote :

"Chevy is not allowed to be Modded/Tweaked for Console"

The case of BMW formular car with Mercedes skins is something completly different. First thing, the BMW logos are not removeable and can not be painted over with skins . Second, it is likely part of the contract that the BMW cars can be painted like any other cars.

/edit: Two guys were faster typers than me.
This could have all been avoided by asking beforehand: "Why are are some cars not in the editor?"

Similiar, when looking for 3D models on websites, why not ask the uploader where the file comes from?
Oooh, some guy named xXxTuneStreetSwagLordxXx has uploaded 20 game-quality models in one month, with no website no portfolio, no WIP pictures. He says it is all free to download. Seems legit.
...
Whaaaat? It was a rip from Forza?! How could I have known?

Last edited by Gutholz, Tue 22 Feb 2022, 08:23.

To me it looks like this:
Red car is to the left of the track, already almost on grass. He has nowhere to go.
Black car is passing on the right and gets too near to red car.
As said, red car is already at the edge of the track. Yes, he turns the wheel a tiny bit to the right but I would not call it "steering into me before crash." It is just the normal small wheel movements that one always does even when going in a straight line.
He can not go further to the left else he would risk running off the track.
If you pass someone who is already that close to the grass and pass that close that any tiny movement will cause contact then it is imo your fault.

That is just my impression from the videos. 5 seconds video clips are too short to judge this.

To be honest the original model looked totally good enough to me.
But if you think you can do even better..thats okay too!

-audio is clipping (shift+a)
-text on license plate is shifted. Try text "12345678", the last letter will "wrap around" and a part of it is shown at left edgge.