Quote from Forbin :

- water pump cover and gaskets: ~$120
- right side bar and brake lever: ~$120
- brake pedal: ~$50
- fairing and fairing stay: $900-1000 (unpainted)

Those are rough estimates of OEM prices. Haven't really taken a close look at the exhaust or rear suspension yet.

EDIT: Exhaust and suspension seem fine.



I have it up for sale for $1000 USD.

Don't waste your money on replacing the fairing with OEM kit. Get a fibreglass replica fairing, if you can. Also, you should also invest in crash protectors, (you know the "peg" like things you see sticking out of the fairings of some bikes?), and bar end sliders to fit the end of your handlebars, see here:

http://www.rg-racing.com/brows ... aki/GPZ500/All_Years.aspx

Quote from tristancliffe :

So what you're saying is:

1) Diesel is crap unless it is helped by forced induction.

Yup. Pretty much

Quote :

2) Diesel's only win when the 'playing field' is not level.

Funnily enough, a turbocharged petrol engine would crap all over a similar diesel. But for some reason petrol cars aren't allowed FI.

Depends on how you define level. Obviously if you want to look at it purely from the terms of engine parts, one car having a turbo and another not would seem not to be level. But, when the car that is allowed the turbo is starting off with a distinct power disadvantage because of it's engine type then allowing it to use a turbo to achieve comparible peak power is exactly to level the playing field. Looking at it from the perspective of mechanical parts is simplistic in such circumstances, (and I think you know it :razz.

Quote :

The extra torque at the flywheel will be reduced via gearing to give very similar wheel torque figures, especially as diesel engines don't rev as high. Thus they don't have any more need AT ALL for traction control to limit the torque (besides, even a 6 year old can control wheelspin with their feet).

Fair point.

Quote :

The bike equivalent you mention is fair - same capacity, same breathing, same weight limits, same fuel... Just a slightly different concept of whether two or four cylinders is the best trade off. There is no need for equivalency rules in that scenario, but there is for diesels versus petrol.

Actually it's a far closer comparible than you believe. The Ducatis were not only twin cylinder configurations, they were allowed 33% greater capacity than the 4 cylinder inline bikes. Why? well because despite using a very high tech cylinder head the Ducatis didn't have a hope in hell of achieving a similar peak power output as the inline 4's if they were the same capacity, so they were allowed greater capacity in order to be competitive for peak output. But then they had an even greater advantage of making considerably more low down torque, not only from the intrinsic advantage of their engine layout but also from their extra capacity. Despite this, I don't recall many people claiming the ducatis had an unfair advantage.

Quote from NitroNitrous :

IMO the thing that makes Seat win is not the diesel engine, the turbo is the answer

Diesel cars need a turbo to be even remotely competitive with similar capacity petrol engined cars. So the turbo isn't relevant. What Diesel cars will always be better at, (compared to same capacity petrol engines), is producing low down/mid range (ish) torque. Only problem is, they produce so much torque, (especially in a heavily tuned engine), that they can't put it down without spinning up the wheels all over the place. So they resort to traction control that essentially removes the torque advantage. Anyway it's horses for courses... pretty much the same debate that was had when Ducatis first entered WSB racing with their big capacity twins, they had the edge out of the corners but got passed down the straights by the inline 4 engined bikes.

Quote from tikshow :

is this true? omg, south america doesn't have desert if know well... what an idea, i think this isn't good!

Only the driest desert in the world

http://www.extremescience.com/DriestPlace.htm

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

The Seats practised two criminal offenses in racing:
- diesel
- front wheel drive

Justice can only be eternal banning from all racetracks!

Shame they were competitive against petrol engined RWD cars then huh?

True racing is blind to drive type or engine type. Anyone who's doesn't think so isn't a real racing fan. Rules are only put in place for the purposes of safety and competitiveness. If RWD petrol engined etc car drivers can't handle the fact that their favorite car is being whooped on the racetrack by a FWD diesel, that has nothing to do with mixed marque racing. If they don't like it they should stick to watching single marque racing series.

I like the idea of a forced speed limit, as long as it could be done in such a way so as not to cause damage to the car or driver through excessive deceleration. It would have the advantage of keeping each driver in their relative track positions and distances, therefore taking away the unfair disadvantage of being "caught up" by a driver that wasn't even close to catching you pre-safety car deployment.

I also like the idea of "all the way to the end" races, just like in motoGP. It sorts the men out from the boys in terms of true car control as tyres "go off" etc. It will also punish the more reckless drivers who dive up the inside shredding tyres knowing full well they'll have a new set in 10 laps or so. What's so skillful about locking up the front tyres, diving up the inside of someone late in to a corner and forcing them to run wide and essentially "bullying" them out of the way? Nothing in my opinion.

Racing isn't about just being the one able to do the fastest lap. If it were we might as well just do Saturday and give the points to the drivers according to their "hot lap" times !!

Quote from Intrepid :

You only have one life.

Ask yourself this. When your on your death bed and look back at your life do you really want to think -

"50 years ago when I was a healthy young man in a country with oppurtunities a plenty, why did I come up with so many excuses as to why I didn't go and do something I loved?"

You DO NOT want to be that person. Your healthy so do it. Whether you crash, finish last, or whatever... just do it

I couldn't agree more. IF you have the money to burn then go for it. Just don't take too many risks and try to stay out of trouble and it should be a positive experience irrespective of how well you actually do.

I use cockpit view exclusively. I did try a couple of the other views just to see what they were like but they just seemed "wrong" to me. Probably because I drive in real life so any view other than cockpit view just makes me feel like I'm playing a game.

In LFS, Left foot exclusively.
In a real car, Right foot exclusively.

Don't really know why I Left foot brake in LFS as I've never used left foot to brake in a real car, seems a bit weird how easy it is to do in LFS. I tried it a few times in a real car and just ended up slamming on the brakes really hard as I was automatically pushing down like I would on a clutch pedal despite consiously knowing I was pushing the brake pedeal. That's the power of autonomous motor function for you.

With reference to the impact of the amount of air in the tyre affecting temperatures etc. Things to consiser are:

a) All mass will absorb thermal energy from any other mass with which it comes in to contact, (in the direction that the thermal gradient created by the temperature difference between the two masses dictates).
b) The rate at which the energy transfer occurs is dependant on the thermal gradient between, and the thermal properties of, the two masses.
c) The amount of total thermal energy transfered is related to the specific heat capacity of the mass and the absolute amount of mass.
d) Gases absorb thermal energy in two ways:

i) Convection (movement of molecules)
ii) Conduction (Kinetic Energy transfer between molecules)

Both of those mechanisms are affected by the total amount of gas molecules and their density. ie pressure of the gas. Lowering the pressure of a gas will reduce both it's ability to absorb and to transfer thermal energy. Taken to the extreme, a gas with zero pressure (ie a vacuum) will not absorb or transfer any heat at all.

Quote from Flame CZE :

Fbm...

umm lost in translation I think ....

Quote from Mazz4200 :

Ahh yeah http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/69428

Nothing unusual about it though, just a routine check. I'm certain Mclaren have nothing to fear, it's not like they'd ever do anything dodgy now is it..

what you mean like accept technical information taken from another team unknowingly?? .. nah .. never !!

Quote from Sueycide_FD :

i doubt we will have newer cars other than maybe a RAC GTR or a RB4 GTR. IF you think about it we already have cars for every type of classification. Hatchbacks, street sports cars, touring cars, etc.

I bet after the devs see that people are simply making their own "cars" within the skins themselves(volvo skins, nissan skins, etc) they won't continue to make cars.

Huh? then I must be missing something or you have different classes there in the US.

Tin tops:

UF1/XFG/XRG/RB4/FXO/XRT/FZ5/UFR all have no obvious motorsport classes that I'm aware of. They're all just tuned "street" cars, (except UFR maybe).

European Classes:

Renault Clio Cup racing (XFR) - Touring cars (Nothing in LFS) - Something between WTCC & Le Mans (FXR/XRR?) - Le Mans (FZR is probably closest?)

Single Seaters:

Formula SAE McGill (MRT) - Forumula BMW (duh!) - Formula 3 (FOX) - Formula 3000 (F08) - A1GP/A2GP (nothing in LFS) - F1 (BF1)

Odd ones out : RAC & LX4/LX6


The lack of Touring cars and any form of Rally Car are obvious holes IMHO. They are also the two racing classes that are most likely to attract new customers to the sim IMO so from a purely commercial point of view should be considered for addition by the devs (at some point or other) before the final release of LFS as a finished product, (what ever revision that will be).

Other than that they've got it pretty much covered as far as I can see.

If I were to be critical there are too many "street" cars in LFS

Quote from Mustafur :

It would be good, i mean really good, but i highly doubt he would be fast.

I wouldn't be so sure. Generally speaking from all the times I've ever seen "freindly" cross over competitions between motorcycle and car racers the motorcyclists have done a lot better in the cars than the car drivers have done on the motorcycles. You need to have a highly tuned sense of what the rubber is doing on the road to be fast on a motorcycle.. far more than you do in a car I suggest. I'd say fast motorcycle racers are probably more tuned in to the feedback from the tyres than a lot of car racers are.

You're all still missing the point. It's not about dividing people, it's about giving people a place to talk about subjects that interest them. It's about having a single place to go to find such subjects. It's purely about having a logical layout to the forum that meets users needs. There will still be the general forum for all other things LFS related.

hmm yeah all I need to hear is some kid driving an XFG with a Cherrybomb pipe on it.... Not ! Get enough of that crap in real life thanks.

-1 deffinitely !!

+1 for a drifting section.

I would have no objection to a cruise section either but as bob said it's not really something the devs want to encourage.

All you lot that think it's divisive or that "racers" should just "deal with it" are completely missing the point. Just about every other forum I've ever frequented has sections that cover the different aspects of the "subject" of the forum. It's purely so that there are natural places for people that want to discuss the same subjects can go to without having to wade through a whole load of posts on subjects they have no interest in. That would be the SOLE purpose for having a drift and a race section to the forum, simply for the sake of logic and convenience for the forum users nothing else.

I also agree that given there is friction between the two comunities, different sections would allow those that seem incapable of not "biting" at threads they obviously find objectionable to not have to even see them and so stay out of them. Thus improving the atmosphere of the forum. Which I have to say is unfortunately one of the worst of any forum that I've ever frequented.

Quote from samjh :

Almost definitely a team order moment with Heikki and Hamilton at the closing stages.

Now way!! don't you remember??? McLaren have no team orders, their drivers are treated completely equaly !! ... hmm yeah ok..

Let me think... who to favour? Current WDC or the guy we've been nurturing to become WDC since he was 11?? hmmm... difficult one.. (pssst he's English...so's the team)... ahhh yes.. let's make Lewis our No1 driver then and just pretend we run an equal team stratergy.

Very simple as far as I'm concerned. The script is not provided as part of the games code, so by definition it's an addition. This therefore makes it a cheat if it gives any advantage no matter how small over people using the original game code with no modifications. If it modifies code to gain improved performance in the game world then it's a cheat. It is in fact the definition of a cheat in the world of gaming.

Ok well it recognises my wheel, even lets me calibrate it. but point blank refuses to use it in game.

So it's a non starter for me.

Quote from HVS5b :

Doesn't look very inspiring, Tilke at his best.......

Actually in my opinion it removes the only real bad corner on the circuit.
Also, remember that's going to be a down hill section in to the new corner.

Personally I like it, keeps the original circuit untouched and adds some length, but still with the option to keep the two original layouts for other racing formulae.

Last edited by gezmoor, Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:46.

Hmm.. jury's out for me. I don't know the game but the film looks a little bit generic for my liking, most likely I'll wait till it's out on DVD. I only hope Nelly Furtados part is small.. very very small ..

Quote from Xaid0n :

This hopefully won't take long

Closest I can guess is a 50's American car.


Scrap that - rethinking looks more like 30's , still american though

I think the only like substantial difference would be that the persecution of the jews was a personal ambition of Hitlers, so whilst it's likely that there still would have been a war in Europe due to the political and social/economic situation in the various countries, it's far less likely that the holocaust would have happened. The biggest likely impact of that is that there would almost certainly be no state of Israel and therefore no middle east conflict and very likely no Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. Or at the least it would have been far less likely to happen

Quote from Forbin :

Summit Point Shenandoah, Team Pro-Motion Track School (ART Basic)/Track Day, July 4, 2008

I took the 5 hour drive down from Jersey thursday night and stayed overnight in Winchester, VA. The next morning I woke up with a splitting headache and thought, well shit, this ain't good. So I sucked it up, got in the car and drove to the track. Lo and behold, my headache didn't bother me so much anymore. It was still there, but most of the time I didn't notice.

When I got there, I was a bit lost, so after a bit of wandering I ended up being personally helped by a guy who introduced himself as Mark (a.k.a. dad on ex-500.com). Shortly thereafter I got my rental R6 and school started.

My first track session was in the wet. The track staff tried to dry it out by sending the cars out first but suffice it to say there was still a lot of water out there. It must have been my fourth lap when I started feeling pretty good, even in the wet, and went to crack the throttle open a bit more coming out of a left onto a straight. BAM, the back wheel spun up and slid out and I just thought, "sh!t, I've had it." Somehow I stayed fairly calm, though, and quickly yet smoothly rolled off the throttle. It fishtailed a bit more but finally came back in line. Nothing like having "smooth" hammered into your brain quite like that.

The second session was much like the first: very wet, with a couple riders going down. By the third it started drying out, and I tried picking up the pace. It didn't take long for me to be outside my comfort zone and I found I was constantly missing apexes and even running wide in one spot. Then for my fourth session I started hanging off the bike a bit and everything really came together. I could sense I was going a bit quicker and leaning harder than I had in previous sessions and was having a blast doing it, constantly nailing my apexes.

That was abruptly ended when another rider came flying by as I was braking for the karousel. I knew there was no way he was making the corner and sure enough, he locked the front brake and slammed down hard on his left side. The bike slid off into the barrier on the outside of the karousel. Meanwhile, the rider slid into the back wheel of the rider in front of me, causing him to fishtail a bit as he entered the corner. The downed rider then slid off the track onto the grass without hitting anything else. From what I heard, he was merely knocked unconscious, perhaps from the moment he hit the ground. Then it started pouring.

At that point, I decided I'd already had my fun (and close call) in the rain and stuck around in the paddock talking to the other riders (great advice from Mark, bench racing with my ART Basic classmates).

Overall, an incredibly fun day, despite the close calls and the rain. I can't thank the staff at Team Pro-Motion enough for running the class and track day (on the 4th of July no less), and a special thanks to Mark Graulty and Bill Sink for helping me out and giving me great advice all day long.

If you've never attended a track school before (cars or bikes), do it!

Brilliant fun isn't it?? There is nothing like track experience to realise both the ability of modern sports bikes and you're own limitations. Really puts the stupidity of riding fast on the public roads in to perspective too.

Only thing I can say is get out there and do more !! Just be careful out there !