Quote from Gentlefoot :

It's also worth remembering that changing the ride height will affect the live camber settings. Chances are you reduced negative camber slightly when you increased rear ride height. This may have resulted in better rear end lateral grip or traction.

you may have it here. i did do the test of going back to my old (flat) setup, adding more rear downforce, and it didn't help. i'm thinking, more downforce = more camber = less contact patch. so maybe i could make the flat set work if i played with my camber a bit, but meanwhile i went back to the new raked set and knocked another 0.2 seconds off my pb.

i noticed it the most on the flat-out twisty section of sector 2. i would normally hit 248 or so coming down the hill, lose some speed on the right hander at the bottom, and crest the hill before the hairpin at about 242. with the rear end lifted 5mm i was basically able to carry all that speed through the corner and crest the hill at 247.

maybe the explanation has to do with less tire scrubbing around that corner?

something like this has happened to me a couple of times. the car started to sound sick, and lack power at high revs, and i thought maybe i had downshifted too fast and damaged the engine, but half-way back to the pits it returned to normal. i wasn't doing anything funky.

that's what i suspected, but it's still surprising that such a small change (which didn't seem to affect the balance of the car much at all) could have such a big affect on lap time. my old pb had stood for several hundred laps, and i wondered if i would ever match it again, let alone beat it easily (with 7 laps worth of fuel in the car, no less).

does it affect aerodynamic drag in lfs?

last night i tried someone else's FXR/AS3 set. the set came from someone who is very fast, and it was very different than mine in every way other than steering. it was a bit wobbly in the corners for my taste, but it had 2-3 km/h more straight line speed than my set, even with me taking the corner exits slower than i normally would. i began to compare settings, looking for differences that would affect top speed.

total body and wing drag was nearly the same, so my next guess was gear ratios. i applied his ratios to my car, and it turned out that mine were actually better, so that theory was out too.

next i looked at the suspension, and noticed that he had 10mm of rake, while i had none. i lifted my rear end by 5mm as an experiment, and voila! 2 laps to warm the tires, then i put the hammer down and destroyed my pb by 0.3 seconds, with top speeds 3-4 km/h higher than i'd seen before.

so now i'm a believer in rake, but my question is, did the time come off because the aerodynamics are different with rake, or because the handling is better? because the downforce screen doesn't show any changes in drag when you adjust the suspension ride height.

i want to say Lotus Esprit, but i'm not sure about the vent above the rear quarter...

is it a Bizzarrini of some kind?

will check it out

how about if the "button" is linked to the throttle? ie, if you don't rev the engine during the countdown you get taken off the grid at the last moment?

Quote from ramtech :

any possibility of adding a twin turbo?
does it even need one (two)?

a quick look at their site shows that it comes with a 500+ bhp V8, but they say the chassis can handle up to 1000 bhp, so i'd say yes, you could modify the crap out of it.

the perfect tire to match spinning hub caps. :slap:

message boards r teh sux!

in my world trucks are for hauling payload, not ass, but whatever, i guess some of you are bored with race cars...

Quote from whitey6272 :

quick noob question, i've been playing the game for a while now and have once an again come across cars rocking on the starting grid when they accelerate, i think i heard somewhere its a program any1 steer me with thier DFP in the right direction

please repeat the question in english.

go to lfsworld.net and you will find all sorts of statistics on the most used cars and tracks, as well as all of your personal best times on each track with each car. there is also a graph that shows when the most users are online.

Quote from silver bullet :

I would assume that the structural composition of a tire will change when the it is heated up to very high temps, i.e. close to "blow up" temp that is (arbitrarily) set to 200C, and then is cooled down. It would be especially true if the tire is built of a composite material.

My limited expertise in material science extends to steel/alloys so I might be completely off track here, although this matters seems to be worth investigating.

The 200C "blow up" value will definately vary from one type tire/rubber/composite to another, so that's another issue that should be addressed.

my (very limited) understanding is that tires (and brake pads) will "out gas" when overheated, which can lead to glazing on the surface, which in turn results in lower friction, even after the tires have cooled again.

somebody correct me if i'm wrong.

Quote from jtr99 :

I'd feel on shakier ground arguing with Jackie.

haha, werd.

truth is, 9/10 times i actually do yield to people who pass me on the inside, and only cling stubbornly to the outside line if a) i'm reasonably sure the other driver isn't going to hit me and b) i'm carrying enough speed to come out close to even on the exit.

the latter is a judgement call that has to be made in the moment, the former kindof depends on the philosophy of the other driver, which is what makes these discussions interesting.

very interesting thread!

my setups have tended to suffer from twitchiness under braking, which i've tried to tune out using the brake bias, toe, and bump damping, but i've ended up with cars that are stable under throttle and nimble in corners, but with a terrifying transitition between the two states, where the car has great potential to get squirly.

so as soon as i get home, i'm going to reduce my power lock and increase my coast lock and see how that works for me.

Quote from sinbad :

But if both cars are level approaching the corner, why should the outside car be allowed to brake later than the car on the inside?

because if the car on the outside brakes too late, he'll run himself off, but if the car on the inside brakes too late, he'll run BOTH cars off. if i'm out to lunch, i'm more than happy to be educated. i just want to UNDERSTAND this, and not blindly let people bully me around on the track.

Quote from sinbad :

Something the rule is actually there to try and prevent. It protects drivers being passed by encouraging them to concede the position they have already lost as soon as possible.

but if the overtaking driver did not assume the right to the outside on exit, they would not carry so much speed on the inside at entry, and perhaps the other driver would not have "already lost the position" by the apex. i'm saying that in some cases, it's the assumption about what will happen in the exit that allows the overtaking on entry to occur. take away that assumption, and the overtaking car has to take some responsibility for making a safe pass.

Quote from sinbad :

I don't know if I made my point very well

We all know the basic overlap rule. The inside car has the right to take the racing line. *Remember Schumacher taking off Montoya at a left-hander at Imola. That was borderline, on the very edge of fair, because he had full control over the line he was driving and pushed him out on the exit of a fairly long corner. But it was technically legal.* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOW-jngVoT4

Generally you find that when 2 cars go through a corner side by side, both drivers are playing ball. It is great fun. But the rule is there to discourage it, because when drivers are going all out, accidents happen. If the driver on the inside brakes as late as possible, sidebyside should not even be an option for the outside driver, but if he tries it, the driver on the inside doesn't have much chance of not hitting him. But the driver on the outside should ALWAYS expect the driver on the inside to just follow the racing line, that's the point I'm making I think, because he is entitled to do so.

I don't condone anybody doing a Schumacher (or what countless drivers do each weekend no doubt), but if you stay on the outside when it's obvious who has the corner (and let's face it, 2 cars sidebyside it's fairly clear cut who has the right of way), it's your own risk, you should always expect someone to drive to the extent of the rules. I know I expect that from people.

i'm not accusing you of unfair play either, but i am still a bit confused/concerned, as i think it would be easy for someone to interpret this as meaning that it's ok to brake late and cut someone off as long as it's on the inside. if i tried a pass on the inside and ran the other car off the road because i carried too much speed to do anything but swing out on the exit i would fully expect to be cussed out.

Quote from sinbad :

They think that because they are able to stay side-by-side they are entitled to do so. The driver on the inside is allowed to assume the racing line, and that can mean running through the corner at full speed and so using all of the track on the exit of the corner.

Far too many people complain about being pushed wide when really the collision was not intentional and it was their own fault because it was their responsibility to concede the position.

ok, now i'm confused. if somebody is passing me on the inside, i'm obviously not going to cut them off, i'm going to stay on the outside, but why should they be allowed to take the inside AND the outside, and force me off the outside by swinging out on the exit? imo, if you come in on the inside and don't get far enough ahead of the car you are overtaking to let them tuck in behind you, then you should have to hold the inside line so they have somewhere to go.

[edit: haha, jtr99 beat me too it ]

Quote from Gentlefoot :

I'm not bothered about those who are genuinely trying and are new and struggling. That's fine, I give them extra room and they can be passed easily (usually when they crash). It's more those who have clearly spent some time playing LFS i.e. they are in the low 1:09s BLGP FOX, but still don't give room.

i guess they are a little more difficult to deal with, since they can use their lap times as a justification for their dangerous tactics. "i'm fast, so don't tell me what to do," etc. it's a tough one...

speaking as a person who has watched enough racing on TV to be familiar with all the rules and etiquette, is a good driver IRL (over 300,000km without a wreck, and no, i don't drive like a granny), but is relatively new to sim racing, i'd like to point out that it still takes some time and effort to learn how to control the car and pay attention to other racers on the track at the same time. my first few times out on the track i'm sure i pissed some people off with my dangerous moves, but it's starting to come together now.

i think that patience and polite words on the part of the more experienced drivers can help a lot, but when they get frustrated and start barking at the noobs for making mistakes, it just flusters them and doesn't help them to become better drivers.

Quote from faster111 :

check out my lfsworld stats.

ok, i checked them. i am not fast by any means, and get my butt kicked almost every time i race, but all of my times are better than yours. what do want us to say, other than that you need to keep practicing?