I never said everyone who drives an automatic is a lesser driver. That is putting words in my mouth.
I'll keep saying it, if you have to be doing something actively you will be more aware of what is going on, because you have to adapt yourself more to conditions.
It's very similar to what used to happen with trains, the driver would fall asleep and crash the train, this is because all he had to do to make the train go forward was set the control and keep his foot on a pedal. Thats very simmilar to an automatic, aside from steering inputs.
When they realized this they began to add things that made the driver pay attention to whats going on, if he doesn't actively control the train it will shut down.
For the sake of comfort they arn't going to put those sort of things in cars, but at least with a manual you have to actively be aware, if you arn't you could stall the car, something that doesn't happen with an automatic unless there is something wrong with it.
Just because there are a fue people who are bad drivers in manuals or automatics doesn't mean there are alot more in either. What I am trying to say is that learning manual will help a new driver learn more about being aware and raise their awareness of the car and what is going on around it.
If you've been driving an automatic a long time, so what? its not like I'm calling you an idiot for not driving a manual. All I am saying is that new drivers can learn alot from driving more than one type of transmission and will be more aware when they do drive an automatic.
I'll keep saying it, if you have to be doing something actively you will be more aware of what is going on, because you have to adapt yourself more to conditions.
It's very similar to what used to happen with trains, the driver would fall asleep and crash the train, this is because all he had to do to make the train go forward was set the control and keep his foot on a pedal. Thats very simmilar to an automatic, aside from steering inputs.
When they realized this they began to add things that made the driver pay attention to whats going on, if he doesn't actively control the train it will shut down.
For the sake of comfort they arn't going to put those sort of things in cars, but at least with a manual you have to actively be aware, if you arn't you could stall the car, something that doesn't happen with an automatic unless there is something wrong with it.
Just because there are a fue people who are bad drivers in manuals or automatics doesn't mean there are alot more in either. What I am trying to say is that learning manual will help a new driver learn more about being aware and raise their awareness of the car and what is going on around it.
If you've been driving an automatic a long time, so what? its not like I'm calling you an idiot for not driving a manual. All I am saying is that new drivers can learn alot from driving more than one type of transmission and will be more aware when they do drive an automatic.
Getting from A to B cheaply and reliably is one thing newer automatics and manuals both do.
But in the end it's not the transmission, it's the driver.
One of the things I saw alot when I worked at a repair shop was wrecked automatics, all the way from cheapo Civics to BMWs. People don't realize that even though you don't have to replace the clutch, which isn't that often anyway, you still have to maintain the transmission.
One person came in with an old Mercedes benz, they had almost no fluid left in the transmission. When I asked the guy when he had last checked it he responded with, "I have to put fluid in it?"
That seems to be a trend, but thats a whole other debate.
I still stand by my statement that manuals keep the driver more aware of the things around thier car. You have to be more aware of braking points, turns, and anything that might become an obstacle. Sure you are doing more, but it keeps you mentaly awake and aware.
My family's old econoline 150 was written off because some idiot in an automatic fell asleep at the wheel and took out the entire passenger side with his expensive SUV. And this was on a public street.
I will admit that on a highway where you are in the same gear for a long period of time its the same thing, you are just as likely to lose awarness in a manual as in an automatic. But on city streets thats not the case, manuals keep you aware of the car because you have to actively controll it based on whats outside the car.
All to often I see people with cell phones and other devices in thier hands and they are completely unaware of what is going on around thier vehicle, the only thing they see is that device and whats straight ahead. In a manual you have to use a hands free system at the very least, so you still have your hand free to shift. Additionaly, you still have to be looking ahead and around so you can plan your next action.
Some people say shifting becomes unconsious, but thats not realy the case. It simply becomes integrated into your driving routine to the point that you are always aware of what might effect your shift points and steering inputs. You become a more consious driver simply because you have to be to drive a manual. In the end this will translate into a driving habit that will make you a safer driver in an automatic.
But in the end it's not the transmission, it's the driver.
One of the things I saw alot when I worked at a repair shop was wrecked automatics, all the way from cheapo Civics to BMWs. People don't realize that even though you don't have to replace the clutch, which isn't that often anyway, you still have to maintain the transmission.
One person came in with an old Mercedes benz, they had almost no fluid left in the transmission. When I asked the guy when he had last checked it he responded with, "I have to put fluid in it?"
That seems to be a trend, but thats a whole other debate.
I still stand by my statement that manuals keep the driver more aware of the things around thier car. You have to be more aware of braking points, turns, and anything that might become an obstacle. Sure you are doing more, but it keeps you mentaly awake and aware.
My family's old econoline 150 was written off because some idiot in an automatic fell asleep at the wheel and took out the entire passenger side with his expensive SUV. And this was on a public street.
I will admit that on a highway where you are in the same gear for a long period of time its the same thing, you are just as likely to lose awarness in a manual as in an automatic. But on city streets thats not the case, manuals keep you aware of the car because you have to actively controll it based on whats outside the car.
All to often I see people with cell phones and other devices in thier hands and they are completely unaware of what is going on around thier vehicle, the only thing they see is that device and whats straight ahead. In a manual you have to use a hands free system at the very least, so you still have your hand free to shift. Additionaly, you still have to be looking ahead and around so you can plan your next action.
Some people say shifting becomes unconsious, but thats not realy the case. It simply becomes integrated into your driving routine to the point that you are always aware of what might effect your shift points and steering inputs. You become a more consious driver simply because you have to be to drive a manual. In the end this will translate into a driving habit that will make you a safer driver in an automatic.
Because driving a manual is one of the most basic things a driver needs to learn, if you can't multi-task enough to drive a manual transmission you shoulden't be behind the wheel of a car.
It also has to do with lazyness, if you look at someone who has driven an automatic all thier life, they pay alot less attention to the car and are very lazy with looking around and controlling the vehicle. Where as someone who drives a manual is looking around alot more and controlling the car alot more actively, even when driving an automatic.
There are certain standards that seem to have slipped away from the current generation of drivers, things people should just know because they are, or where, basic knowlege.
I am an information sponge, when I started learning to drive I was twelve years old and I wanted to know how to do it right. Thankfully I've had some of the best teachers, several former driving instructors.
Its actualy at the point in canada that in my opinion that little plastic card that says you can drive is completely meaningless now, a very large percentage of people who have that little plastic card can't do what it says they can.
It also has to do with lazyness, if you look at someone who has driven an automatic all thier life, they pay alot less attention to the car and are very lazy with looking around and controlling the vehicle. Where as someone who drives a manual is looking around alot more and controlling the car alot more actively, even when driving an automatic.
There are certain standards that seem to have slipped away from the current generation of drivers, things people should just know because they are, or where, basic knowlege.
I am an information sponge, when I started learning to drive I was twelve years old and I wanted to know how to do it right. Thankfully I've had some of the best teachers, several former driving instructors.
Its actualy at the point in canada that in my opinion that little plastic card that says you can drive is completely meaningless now, a very large percentage of people who have that little plastic card can't do what it says they can.
@ Amp88
Way to take those first two qoutes to literaly.
I said I hate it when, not I hate people who. thats completely different.
I also said people should know how to drive a manual, not know how it works, although that is useful knowlege too.
If you'd ever taken the canadian version of a "driving test" you'd also realize very quickly that any idiot with half a brain can get a license in canada. Its literaly just a multiple choice questionare before you can drive a car with a licensed driver, after that its a simple set of road tests to get a full license.
They don't teach you anything about car control or handeling emergency situations, all of those are up to you to pay for, and yet you are still allowed to drive. What do you think most canadians do? I'll tell you, they get the basic set of tests done and think they know how to drive a car.
Reality is, there are probably a very high percentage of drivers who think they know how to drive and do drive every day, but they don't have the knowlege or training to handel the car effectively. That is why there are so many accidents. They arn't realy accidents, they are inexperianced people making mestakes that sometimes cost lives.
Way to take those first two qoutes to literaly.
I said I hate it when, not I hate people who. thats completely different.
I also said people should know how to drive a manual, not know how it works, although that is useful knowlege too.
If you'd ever taken the canadian version of a "driving test" you'd also realize very quickly that any idiot with half a brain can get a license in canada. Its literaly just a multiple choice questionare before you can drive a car with a licensed driver, after that its a simple set of road tests to get a full license.
They don't teach you anything about car control or handeling emergency situations, all of those are up to you to pay for, and yet you are still allowed to drive. What do you think most canadians do? I'll tell you, they get the basic set of tests done and think they know how to drive a car.
Reality is, there are probably a very high percentage of drivers who think they know how to drive and do drive every day, but they don't have the knowlege or training to handel the car effectively. That is why there are so many accidents. They arn't realy accidents, they are inexperianced people making mestakes that sometimes cost lives.
honestly it pisses me off too.
I hate it when I talk to people who have had a license for a long time and yet have absolutely no idea how to drive a manual, its something EVERYONE who has a license should know.
People these days just don't have the skills they should to drive properly, and being able to drive a manual transmission car is one of the first things a driver should learn. I could write a whole list of things drivers should learn that they never even hear about.
I asked a friend who had just got his license some questions, one of them was if he knew what an S-turn is, something you use every time you parallel park. He had no idea what I was talking about!
I don't even have a license to drive at the moment because I don't feel like paying for a car and license only to have some idiot who can't drive rear end me and go "oh? did I hit something?"
I do plan on getting my license so I can drive my family's big turbo diesel van, but other than that, I've driven enough without a license that I can drive way better than the average canadian driver. I've done things that put even people who have been driving for years to shame.
The only problem I noticed is that the doppler on the crossing bells is backwards, it should pitch down when passed, not up.
Other than that, its an interesting concept, and if you continue to add things it could become a very good addition to LFS.
Other than that, its an interesting concept, and if you continue to add things it could become a very good addition to LFS.
I got an HD 3850 recently and had to edit the bios myself and re-flash it to make the fan controler work properly because the first revision bios has a fan control bug. but thats a long story.
Its not realy uncommon to have to upgrade a bios to get things to work.
I also had to flash my mobo bios to get my Radeon 9000 to work when I got it years ago.
If a bios update is all that is needed, its not that bad. Just make sure not to use a windows based flasher, a bootable floppy with a dos based flashing app is the safest way to go about it.
And as for not enough power, It is a small possibility, but not likely. If you have at least a 500w power supply with at least a 70% efficiency rating, and around 30amps on the 12volt rail(s) you should be good to go.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
I said it never gets to 70ºc now anyway. meaning after the bios tweak.
Befor the tweak I hadn't realy used the card for graphics intensive applications, and it was getting to 70ºc+ temps, if I used the GPU alot it would have went higher, and the fan still would have stayed at 47%.
I only noticed it when I ran the test clocks setting in catalyst and it went up to 77ºc before I hit cancel. The default bios for this card has a messed up fan speed graph, it looks like a child just scribbled on paper and that was what they used as the graph.
I don't like running things hot, and 80ºc all the time is definately not good for the stuff around the GPU, even if the designer says the chip will be fine at 80ºc it doesn't mean it should be there all the time.
@danthebangerboy
The HD 3850 will most definately be an improvement over the HD 2600, I had a 2600 before I got mine and the difference is noticable.
However, if you do get a 3850 make sure it is one of the newest ones built, and get a sapphire, both of those will ensure it is the best 3850 you can get.
That is usualy caused by Three things.
Either the card wasn't seated properly, although this ususaly just causes a no-post situation.
Or the Card is defective and will probably do odd things like that all the time.
Or the last one which is something in your PC doesn't like the new card, I had that problem with an old Compaq, but ususaly custom built computers don't run into this problem often.
I'd say exchange the card for an identical one and see what happens, if it still does the same thing, tear down the computer and put it back together one part at a time untill something goes wrong. Then you will know what is wrong.
Either the card wasn't seated properly, although this ususaly just causes a no-post situation.
Or the Card is defective and will probably do odd things like that all the time.
Or the last one which is something in your PC doesn't like the new card, I had that problem with an old Compaq, but ususaly custom built computers don't run into this problem often.
I'd say exchange the card for an identical one and see what happens, if it still does the same thing, tear down the computer and put it back together one part at a time untill something goes wrong. Then you will know what is wrong.
I just played around with my HD 3850 and realized that there is a bug in the bios for all first run 3850, 3870, and some 4xxx cards that causes the fan to stay at a certain speed all the time, mine never went above or below 47%, even though the bios chart says it should be much higher than that at the temps I was getting.
This bug has been fixed in the newer ones, but I suggest anyone who has one tests it. Just run GPU-Z and catalyst and test clocks in overdrive, if the fan speed doesn't change at all in GPU-Z it means you have a problem. Some people reported the sticker on the cooler falling off because the glue actualy melted.
There are a number of work arounds like using rivia tuner or some other tweaking program, but there is also a way to edit the bios yourself and put in a new temp/fan speed graph and switch graph modes to one that works. Which happens to be the recommended one in the program I used.
I just edited mine to go from 30% @ 30ºc to 100% @ 70ºc (and VOIDED THE WARANTY, unless I flash back to the old one :razz
It never gets to 70ºc now anyway.
I used TechPowerUp.com's RBE Radeon Bios Editor and used a boot disk with ATIflash and both bios files, old and new, just incase the new one didn't work. DON'T USE A WINDOWS BASED FLASHER! YOU WILL REGRET IT!
I'm not sure about mine, but some cards have three clock settings 2D, 3D low, and 3D high. Mine appearantly does, but they are all the same clocks in the stock bios, so I ignored them. If you do see different clocks, DON'T CHANGE THEM! It will just make the card generate more heat at idle, and has no effect on performance unless you experiance stuttering during switching from 2D to 3D, in which case, live with the stutter, its not worth the extra heat and power consumption. I woulden't suggest touching the clock settings at all even.
Flashing the bios isn't illegal, but I'm not sure if posting my edited Sapphire HD 3850 GDDR3 512mb bios is. Additionaly, this is the first time I have ever edited a bios, and other than fan speeds, its completely the same, including revision and dates. Infact, I doubt ATI would know the difference if you waranty or return the card.
There WAS a bios update offered from sapphire, but it required validating the card's Serial number and Part number, I don't know if it is still offered, but all it did was make the speed follow the original graph like it should. For me that wasn't enough, I wanted to set the graph for my temperature range because hitting 100% @ 105ºc is hardly ideal, and I didn't want to go through the trouble of signing up for the forums and locating the dev that has the fixed one.
If you do flash your card's bios, either with a fixed one, or a custom one, you need to know one thing. AGP cards have two device IDs in ATIflash. 0 is not the card, but a different chip, you need to flash ID 1.
Final note: don't ask me for help with using the programs I mentioned, if you can't figure it out you shouldent be using the program in the first place. Just Return the card and get the newest manufacture date available, it will have the fixed bios. I'm not calling anyone dumb, but you do need to know what you are doing. You also have to have the time to read alot, since you need to understand how the fan control works before you start changing all those crypticaly named variables.
This bug has been fixed in the newer ones, but I suggest anyone who has one tests it. Just run GPU-Z and catalyst and test clocks in overdrive, if the fan speed doesn't change at all in GPU-Z it means you have a problem. Some people reported the sticker on the cooler falling off because the glue actualy melted.
There are a number of work arounds like using rivia tuner or some other tweaking program, but there is also a way to edit the bios yourself and put in a new temp/fan speed graph and switch graph modes to one that works. Which happens to be the recommended one in the program I used.
I just edited mine to go from 30% @ 30ºc to 100% @ 70ºc (and VOIDED THE WARANTY, unless I flash back to the old one :razz
It never gets to 70ºc now anyway.
I used TechPowerUp.com's RBE Radeon Bios Editor and used a boot disk with ATIflash and both bios files, old and new, just incase the new one didn't work. DON'T USE A WINDOWS BASED FLASHER! YOU WILL REGRET IT!
I'm not sure about mine, but some cards have three clock settings 2D, 3D low, and 3D high. Mine appearantly does, but they are all the same clocks in the stock bios, so I ignored them. If you do see different clocks, DON'T CHANGE THEM! It will just make the card generate more heat at idle, and has no effect on performance unless you experiance stuttering during switching from 2D to 3D, in which case, live with the stutter, its not worth the extra heat and power consumption. I woulden't suggest touching the clock settings at all even.
Flashing the bios isn't illegal, but I'm not sure if posting my edited Sapphire HD 3850 GDDR3 512mb bios is. Additionaly, this is the first time I have ever edited a bios, and other than fan speeds, its completely the same, including revision and dates. Infact, I doubt ATI would know the difference if you waranty or return the card.
There WAS a bios update offered from sapphire, but it required validating the card's Serial number and Part number, I don't know if it is still offered, but all it did was make the speed follow the original graph like it should. For me that wasn't enough, I wanted to set the graph for my temperature range because hitting 100% @ 105ºc is hardly ideal, and I didn't want to go through the trouble of signing up for the forums and locating the dev that has the fixed one.
If you do flash your card's bios, either with a fixed one, or a custom one, you need to know one thing. AGP cards have two device IDs in ATIflash. 0 is not the card, but a different chip, you need to flash ID 1.
Final note: don't ask me for help with using the programs I mentioned, if you can't figure it out you shouldent be using the program in the first place. Just Return the card and get the newest manufacture date available, it will have the fixed bios. I'm not calling anyone dumb, but you do need to know what you are doing. You also have to have the time to read alot, since you need to understand how the fan control works before you start changing all those crypticaly named variables.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
If you payed alot of money for a sound card, save some money and get ones that plug into that and avoid USB.
If you have onboard sound, pay the extra and get a good set of USB headphones.
Either way, you will get good sound out of them as long as you don't buy the cheapest ones available. Plantronics makes some of the best headphones I have used for PC gaming, but they are mostly USB. I used to use a pair when I had onboard sound, now I have a nice creative soundcard, so I plan on buying a good jack based headset.
If you have onboard sound, pay the extra and get a good set of USB headphones.
Either way, you will get good sound out of them as long as you don't buy the cheapest ones available. Plantronics makes some of the best headphones I have used for PC gaming, but they are mostly USB. I used to use a pair when I had onboard sound, now I have a nice creative soundcard, so I plan on buying a good jack based headset.
Thats not the card's fault, thats something you've installed or windows is running more tasks than before.
Hardware doesn't just magicaly perform worse over time, unless you realy abuse it. I had a Radeon 7000 in my oldschool rig that still runs the same it did when I bought it. But that computer was never abused and the case temp was so low it actualy made my room temp drop. When I finaly retired that computer, the card still worked like new, and still does in my friends oldschool rig.
It definately won't perform worse after one year, thats for sure.
The thing that finaly did it for me was changing the graphics card, I was sure it couldent be that since it did it with two of them.
But now that I think about it, The first card, A Radeon 9000 AIW, was abused via overclocking to the point of artifacting, and the Sapphire Radeon HD2600 was just plain defective.
I switched up to the fastest card made for AGP so far, and probably the last that will be, a Sapphire Radeon HD3850 GDDR3 512mb.
I also added a new CPU cooler and sound card to make this computer last me for a while longer.
My temps are now 40ºc case and 43ºc CPU at idle and 41ºc case and 56ºc under load. This means case temp is back up to what it was before I switched cases, but thats because the new cooler disipates so much heat, and the graphics card is much larger and generates alot more heat.
The cooler I added is absolutely massive, one of these: http://www.scythe-usa.com/prod ... /040/scmg2000_detail.html
I have a very big case and this still takes up alot of space, but I would recommend this thing to anyone building a computer.
That doesn't change the fact that the error could be caused by anything. Bad ram, low voltage from a failing power supply, a bad motherboard, defective graphics card, or even a bad bios version.
I practiacaly covered that entire list with my rebuild. It finaly went away when I practiacly built a new computer around my CPU.
But now that I think about it, The first card, A Radeon 9000 AIW, was abused via overclocking to the point of artifacting, and the Sapphire Radeon HD2600 was just plain defective.
I switched up to the fastest card made for AGP so far, and probably the last that will be, a Sapphire Radeon HD3850 GDDR3 512mb.
I also added a new CPU cooler and sound card to make this computer last me for a while longer.
My temps are now 40ºc case and 43ºc CPU at idle and 41ºc case and 56ºc under load. This means case temp is back up to what it was before I switched cases, but thats because the new cooler disipates so much heat, and the graphics card is much larger and generates alot more heat.
The cooler I added is absolutely massive, one of these: http://www.scythe-usa.com/prod ... /040/scmg2000_detail.html
I have a very big case and this still takes up alot of space, but I would recommend this thing to anyone building a computer.
That doesn't change the fact that the error could be caused by anything. Bad ram, low voltage from a failing power supply, a bad motherboard, defective graphics card, or even a bad bios version.
I practiacaly covered that entire list with my rebuild. It finaly went away when I practiacly built a new computer around my CPU.
Try running without wheel turn compensation if you arn't already.
wheel turn compensation is just for wheels with low degrees of steering, it makes the relation non-linear. it makes it logarithmic if I recall correctly. this means that near the center the degrees of input cause a lower output than at the far ends of the steering wheels turning radius.
If you have a 900º wheel I'm not sure if it stays the same, it might actualy go inverse, meaning the wheel counts for more near the center, or I could be wrong and it just extends the relation.
I am definately adding LFS to steam now, that is just awsome.
I wonder if it can also do voice chat between two people who have it added.
I have never had an anti-virus program installed and I've NEVER had a virus on my computer.
I just seem to know what sites are good or bad by looking at names, and I don't download illegal programs ever, so I've never had to worry about it.
I laugh at people that say XP isn't secure enough because they are getting viruses constantly. They just shoulden't be doing what they are doing, simple as that.
I just seem to know what sites are good or bad by looking at names, and I don't download illegal programs ever, so I've never had to worry about it.
I laugh at people that say XP isn't secure enough because they are getting viruses constantly. They just shoulden't be doing what they are doing, simple as that.
The first problem could be caused by the fact that you arn't at full throttle full corner. Unless it still doesn't shift at full throttle, then I don't know.
The second problem is probably caused by the fact that you are spinning the wheels in auto mode, in auto mode as far as I know, the gear will change at the shift point as long as the engine is accelerating, even if the car isn't.
The second problem is probably caused by the fact that you are spinning the wheels in auto mode, in auto mode as far as I know, the gear will change at the shift point as long as the engine is accelerating, even if the car isn't.
Did I mention it was USED cooking oil?
I woulden't go that far with a new bike, its not worth the repair cost if it killed it. Which it most likely would.
I don't actualy own a newer bike myself because all my friend's newer bikes fail or completely die on them in a very consistent pattern. My bike going through the same kind of use, has never had a failure.
I wonder if any of you have seen what they did to a Honda cub 50 scooter on another show.
It was basicaly the same thing, exept that they even put cooking oil in the crank case and ran it like that. The engine ran no matter what they did to it and would not stop. A newer bike, and I know this from experiance, will not take that kind of abuse.
my 77' Honda XR75 mini crosser, and my 81' Honda XL125s dual sport are still faster and far more durable than modern offerings of the same engine size, infact my 75 is faster than a modern 100. I can run them through hell if I want to, although I won't. Infact, the previous owners of both bikes put them through motorcycle hell, and they still start and run like new to this day.
Pretty much this thread was started for two reasons, to show that video to people who may have not seen it, which is mostly people like myself who don't get that show on our cable. And to get a coversation going about the declining quality of vehicles made today. It's actualy achieving both things I intended.
It was basicaly the same thing, exept that they even put cooking oil in the crank case and ran it like that. The engine ran no matter what they did to it and would not stop. A newer bike, and I know this from experiance, will not take that kind of abuse.
my 77' Honda XR75 mini crosser, and my 81' Honda XL125s dual sport are still faster and far more durable than modern offerings of the same engine size, infact my 75 is faster than a modern 100. I can run them through hell if I want to, although I won't. Infact, the previous owners of both bikes put them through motorcycle hell, and they still start and run like new to this day.
Pretty much this thread was started for two reasons, to show that video to people who may have not seen it, which is mostly people like myself who don't get that show on our cable. And to get a coversation going about the declining quality of vehicles made today. It's actualy achieving both things I intended.
When I ride my dirt bikes I have to use the sound of the engine to find shift points. There is no tachometer and no Speedometer on my mini crosser, and my 81' XL125s has a speedometer but no tachometer.
If you know the vehicle well enough you can judge shift points completely by feel. Automakers don't expect you to actualy do this and they put that very distracting round thing in the dash so you will look at it when you should be looking at the road ahead.
My friend's old CT70 actualy physicaly tells you when to shift, on redline it has a certain resonance to the frame of the bike. This obviously isn't a feature, but it trains you very quickly to be able to shift by ear.
People who need to look at the tachometer for shift points or feel they need a shift light should probably not be driving a manual gearbox.
I know some race cars have shift lights, but I bet that after the driver gets used to the car and its gearing he never even sees it.
If you know the vehicle well enough you can judge shift points completely by feel. Automakers don't expect you to actualy do this and they put that very distracting round thing in the dash so you will look at it when you should be looking at the road ahead.
My friend's old CT70 actualy physicaly tells you when to shift, on redline it has a certain resonance to the frame of the bike. This obviously isn't a feature, but it trains you very quickly to be able to shift by ear.
People who need to look at the tachometer for shift points or feel they need a shift light should probably not be driving a manual gearbox.
I know some race cars have shift lights, but I bet that after the driver gets used to the car and its gearing he never even sees it.
LOL, I've never in my life been called that before.
You could try spelling it right though, its Canuck, with a C.
That is correct.
By stock vehicle I mean no changes made. If the turbo is modified (ie waste gate respringing) I don't consider the vehicle stock anymore.
What I mean is that I have never seen a completely stock vehicle run at more than 10lbs before, and at stock boost I've never seen them drop off. But I have seen stock turbos pushed up before, and they ususaly don't handel it too well.
I don't work with turbocharged vehicles very often though, I have seen more superchargers than turbos. My knowlege about how they work is basicaly complete, but my knowlege of the application of them appears to be incomplete.
Last edited by DragonCommando, .
All of that is realy interesting, and news to me.
I have never seen a stock turbo push more than 10psi and do it without dropoff. If auto makers are running the turbos to the point of drop off they can't be very well matched turbo chargers.
If they intend it to do 12psi and it doesn't stay there to redline there is something wrong. That turbo is running above its intended max speed.
The waste gate is controlled by manifold pressure, if the manifold pressure drops off the waste gate will close to make the turbo spin faster to maintain pressure. If the turbo simply can't maintain the pressure the waste gate will close and the turbo will spool up faster than intended.
At least that is the logical course of events, unless automakers have figured out a way of capping turbo speed without using the waste gate.
I have never seen a stock turbo push more than 10psi and do it without dropoff. If auto makers are running the turbos to the point of drop off they can't be very well matched turbo chargers.
If they intend it to do 12psi and it doesn't stay there to redline there is something wrong. That turbo is running above its intended max speed.
The waste gate is controlled by manifold pressure, if the manifold pressure drops off the waste gate will close to make the turbo spin faster to maintain pressure. If the turbo simply can't maintain the pressure the waste gate will close and the turbo will spool up faster than intended.
At least that is the logical course of events, unless automakers have figured out a way of capping turbo speed without using the waste gate.
lol, fail isn't a strong enough word for that.
Charge time is rarely a problem on a healthy coil, unless it is damaged it will charge much faster than is needed.
My bike has mechanical timing advancement, the timing is adjusted above base advance by a spring loaded centerfugal advance system. This is most comonly seen on older bikes and cars with distributor caps.
I'm not sure exactly how to explain why timing advance can't simply keep the timing perfect for the whole range. But I'll give it a shot anyway.
It has to do with the actual burn rate of the fuel, in order to provide maximum power the fuel has to burn right from TDC to BDC. However, it has to be ignited before TDC so that it is combusting completely during that time.
The rule is that it always has to finnish burning as close to BDC as possible at idle, if it doesn't the engine won't run right since compression will be able to somewhat defeat the power stroke.
As engine speed increases the fuel will burn at the same speed but timing has to advance so that it always finnishes before BDC. this means it will start burning closer to TDC untill it gets to the point where it is spinning so fast that you can no longer advance the timing or it will burn before TDC.
When you hit the sweet spot, where the burning takes place directly between TDC and BDC, and burns almost the entire way through the stroke, you should be inside the power band. You simply do not need the timing to be perfect anywhere after that. And it can't be no mater how much you advance or retard it. The burn rate is simply too long at that point.
This is largely dependant on fuel, if you put high octane in a car, unless you set the timing for it, you will actualy not see any increase in performance, it simply burns faster and it will just run cleaner. Most modern cars with electronic ignition actualy have a seperate ignition timing map specificaly for high octane fuel. the engine can actualy detect what fuel is going into the engine based on it's burning characteristics and will switch to the appropreate ignition and injection maps for it.
This is why high reving engines need hotter and faster buring fuel, if you put E85 in a formula 1 car it simply would not run right, and may not even rev high like it should. It will simply lose to much power because the fuel won't burn quickly enough to finnish before BDC.
My bike comes from the factory with performance timing, but not aggressive timing. I advanced it to be slightly more aggressive and I lost performance down low, but gained performance up high. If I wanted I could re-spring the mechanical advance and get it to run aggressively over the entire range, but it would still need high octane to rev higher than 10.5k without damage, not to mention stronger internals.
Most stock factory cars will have the timing set so they run smooth over thier entire rev range right up to redline. This is not optimal because the engine isn't going to hit that perfect sweet spot at the power band because that would make it run aggressively, which is often seen as running rough by people who don't understand it.
I could also get into how the shape of the pistons effects how the engine revs and how high it can rev. but I would be writing way to much for one post.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG