Quote from deggis :

And in the mean time in Kunos' residence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IazqIHwKe8

I have to say that i been following Netkar Pro since before its release and by that time I tought it would be the sim that would divide my free time along with LFS. When it was released I tried the demo, but it just didn´t work well on my PC and I decided not to buy it. Today I keep on searching all the news about it, but now just out of curiosity to see how far it goes, because no matter how good it is, I for sure ain´t gonna buy it. If you were all portuguese I could easily find a couple of expressions to describe my thoughts about "Kunos", but since you´re not it´s better not say anything, but giving my money to someone like him is completely out of question. Releasing that video at this time is really taking the piss off of his Netkar costumers. It´s the same as saying "hey people, while you're all out there shouting for me to work in getting the Netkar patch ready, I´m in here having a bit of fun with my free time project and going for a spin in Trento Bodone, that track I made a long time ago, and that neither of you will be able to drive sometime soon. So long, suckers!!!".

Quote from AppiePils :

To resolve the issue regarding what car to use, we ask of you to make the decision for what of the two cars you would make the skin: FZ5/VWS or perhaps you want to make a skin for both.

I think that it was better, either take the safest option and keep the contest only for the FZ5 or, if you wanna keep the choice of using the VWS, ask people to enter a skin for both, and without the need to be similar in both cars. After all, the shape of the FZ5 and VWS are very different, which means that a skin that looks great on one, will not necessarily look great also, when transposed to the other.

Don´t know if you noticed but that news you posted is from 25 September. The 2008/2009 season started after that...

Quote from rjm1982 :

I don't think so.

I don't think it's right to have an opinion on something you know nothing about... hearsay is not a valid basis of opinion...

A lot of the discussions in this thread have been around some aspects of IRacing like, their price, their subscription model, their racing system, their different aproach to simracing in general and not about the software itself. Most of the information is available for anyone who wants to form an opinion about IRacing without having to try it. Besides that, I think that the discussion has been carried out in a civil way and with respect for the different views stated here... The fact that we can have this kind of discussion about IRacing in the LFS forum should be praised and not closed to only one side of the arguments or it would be better to close it here and let Iracing users and supporters carry on this thread in their own foruns.

Quote from joebob4441 :

Hmm all we need now is a test patch WITH the car in it

I think that´s exactly what we don´t need at this point... Instead of a few selected opinions from the beta testers, we would have thousands of opinions from every "car expert" in this forum, and when the car was released everybody would have a reason to not be happy about it, because their suggestion wasn´t implemented. So, I think is time to let LFS devs do their work, and I must admit that what happen today with this announcement and the response from the majority of LFS users really made me proud for being a member of this community.

Quote from RS1T :

finally somebody who talks some sense instead of flaming, even though i do not agree with all your points, at least you respond to mine in a grown up way instead of flaming

Please read again the first 2 posts you made in this thread, that I quoted below... And then please explain us what you mean by responding in a grown up way...

Quote from RS1T :

I am annoyed. I spend 24 pounds on LFS (which is a good game) but it is NOT worth the money of an other game like GRID etc. The graphics are so much better, it is so much more detailed and there are hundreds of licenced cars. Where does all our money go? Thousands of people have S2 licences, and that means you have hundreds of thousands of pounds to spend on licensing. I want to see more cars and more improvements, less bad news and less delays

I was just about to make a skin and a new interior for the VWS, but when i read this i cant be arsed anymore

great job guys

Quote from RS1T :

that is not good news, that is shit. If there was a scirocco cup in real life then of course all the drivers would be able to tune the suspension . This is bullshit

Quote from Hyperactive :

Comparing to nkpro the abarth is tzilliards more times appealing car than this. The solskie from iracing beats this hands down with it's feet in its pockets and head in bushes.

Seeing that none of the work made by Kunos, like the Osella and Trento-Bodone, and the Singtel F1 simulator, ever made it to the public version of Netkar, I´m willing to guess that the closest you´ll get to seeing the Abarth in Netkar, in the near future, will be on Youtube, on the videos of the Bologna Motorshow. And since you, as far as I know, haven´t driven the Scirocco in LFS, what makes you think the Solstice is a better car. After all the Solstice is less powerful than the Scirocco and wheights more or less the same...
But then, I guess that when it cames to being negative about LFS, every argument is valid.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Can't really say im shocked your a cruiser, how about actually try racing before you act lke you know what its about, because this isn't what us racers really want, we want real race cars, LMP's etc, aslong as its designed to be out on track im not too bothered, thats plainly a shopping trolley.

Maybe you could try and enlighten us a bit more about "what us racers" means, and what cars do you have to drive, to be worthy to be a member of such an exclusive and elite club.

Quote from W1ldPort75 :

I dont get it , the VW isnt even out yet and people are bitching about it already !! Wait until the 19th , drive the VW for a day or two , and if you dont like it , then bitch around !! I am very happy that we are getting a new car , and a real one , so we can compare to real life

I guess it all depends on the perspective in what you see things. The ones that are still happy with LFS and enjoying it, will see it in a positive way, and the ones that are unhappy and bored with LFS will see it in a more negative way. Maybe none of this two perspectives is wrong, and there´s wright reasons in both. Since I prefer to be positive, let me name some of the reasons why the inclusion of the Scirocco (and also the FBM) are good to LFS:

- these kind of deals represent a recognition of LFS and can lead to other deals that can bring new content to LFS
- the introdution of real cars is something that of lot of people has been asking, and can lead to a greater exposure of LFS, wich could mean more sales. Besides that, there´s a lot of people that never bought LFS and prefered other sims because of the lack of "real" content
- the information received by the devs, in the development of these cars can be helpful in the future changes and additions to LFS, and would problably be much harder to get without them
- there´s been a great improvement in the quality of the models in LFS, wich was something that a lot of people complained about, specialy comparing to other sims. Let´s just hope that this kind of improvements can be extended, in the near future, to the other models

Quote from The Moose :

But without adding more race types they wont get a load more subscribers.

They cant loose by adding more race-types, surely? If the system is as good as you and others think it is, then the devs must have the confidence that by doing something to bring in more punters it will in turn benefit the current system.

The like minded hardcore racers will continue to race the current system, because the current system is brilliant, isn't it? Surely those racers wont bother with slumming it with the masses that chose to pick up race.

Altough in theory that may be right, I think is much easier said than done. After all their current system of racing, is one of their main selling points, and problably the one that justifies the most, the fact that you´re paying a subscription, since the content is paid separately. To open up to another type of racing would mean, if it was done on their servers, more work and harder to keep things in control, because people would race more "freely". If they let users have their own servers and run their own leagues, then a lot of people would start to wonder why they need to pay a subscription for a system they don´t use. So, even if the number of subscribers doesn´t reach the number they need to make their product profitable, and they are forced to open up their system to try to get more people in, it won´t be an easy decision to make...

Quote from Hyperactive :

...

First of all, thanks for such a well tought and well written post. Altough I still can´t see what´s so special and different in IRacing. After all, besides the laser scanned tracks, what has IRacing done that hasn´t been done before, even considering that they might have done it a little better... I also see that you have a lot of faith in their development, wich leads to question why, after 5 years of development and millions of dollars spent, some features are still missing, and what evidence is there that they will achieve it in a short period of time. So, I can only offer you an advice... Try to look at IRacing based on what it is, and not based on your frustation with LFS. I sincerely hope that the people in the IRacing staff work to have a product that will succeed based on their strenghts and not on there competitors weakness, or they will fail completely...

Last edited by chunkyracer, Sun 14 Dec 2008, 01:42.

Quote from Hyperactive :

Both are racing sims and therefore comparable. LFS costs less, that's already one comparison.

The same way you can compare a Renault Clio with a BMW serie 5. After all they're both cars... But I don´t think people expect the same from one or the other. The point I was trying to make, is that, when you launch a product that´s much more expensive than the competition, you really need to deliver something special and substancially better than everything else. I really don´t think IRacing has achieved that, and once the novelty and marketing "crap" wears off, people will start to look to IRacing with a different perspective... So, instead of announcing new cars and tracks, to make subscribers spend even more money in IRacing, they should concentrate in optimizing their simulator, so it really stands out from their competition. Otherwise, I believe that their userbase, will stay the same that already is, or even became smaller when people start to think twice before renewing their subscription.

Last edited by chunkyracer, Sun 14 Dec 2008, 00:36.

Quote from Liff :

On both the sim and service side they had features right from the start that are not present in any other sim. I won't bother to mention the number one selling point anymore. Of the more recently rolled out stuff, I believe the yellow flag system on ovals is in a different league compared to any other sim. That doesn't mean that there aren't obvious omissions, too.

If you consider that a IRacing user, that wants to progress in their carreer in IRacing, will problably spend in one year alone, more or less, 5 times the cost of an S2 license, it´s clear to see that there shouldn't be any kind of chance of comparing the two, or even think IRacing is a competitor to LFS. For me, that´s the biggest challenge that IRacing has to face in the near future. I believe that they may have a good product, but if they want to really grow their userbase, they really need to take it to another level, and that´s not an easy task, even if you have a lot of money to spend or a lot of people to work. Most of the times there´s a real difference in what we can do and what we really do...

Quote from Liff :

What does that have to do with my point at all? I was talking about the development speed. It's from another planet on iRacing compared to LFS, and has been ever since they went public. That is a fact, and the end of that discussion for me.

Sorry, but I don´t think that you honestly believe, that the content that was released after IRacing went public was created in the last 6 months... I´m pretty sure most of it was finished or almost finished by that time. But having a subscription model is much better to keep releasing new stuff to keep users motivated and willing to renew their subscriptions. Besides that, since you pay for cars and tracks, releasing things this way, will make people buy it, just because they´re "new", even if they don´t need it for the progress in their IRacing carreer, thus generating a steady flow of income. So, for me, what you call development speed, I call business strategies. To talk about development speed, I think that we need to wait a little longer and see if many of the missing features in IRacing, compared to what exists in other simulators are implemented or not, and if they are able to implement some features that aren´t present in any other sim...

Quote from Kalev EST :

Not meaning to be a spoilsport but you guys do know that the modern WRC cars are faster than Group B cars on any road that has a few bends on it?

You can´t really compare them both since they're more than 20 years apart. Those cars, like Hannu Mikkola says in the beginning of the video that Zeug posted, could drive around a track close do the times F1 cars did back then. Don´t think we could say the same about modern WRC. Those cars were just too fast, too powerful, too dangerous and too demanding for the drivers, and because of that, they were banned. And the way the public felt about rally at that time was just pure madness. Nothing comparable to what we have today...

Quote from Blackout :

Those Group-B videos always give me goose bumps.

Pure awesome.

Same here... Seeing them live is an experience that I don´t believe any motorsport fan could forget...

Quote from ACCAkut :

Ear PornGroup B

The Group B cars were truly race cars, and that was for sure the golden age in rally. And their sound was just brutal. Anyone who had a chance to seen them live, knows what I mean... And the best sounding of them all was, no doubt, the Audi Quattro S1.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yJjBzSKN7LE
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v= ... xpVeE&feature=related

Happy Birthday, Scawen!!

Quote from Scawen :

Don't worry - I am having a day off work

So, you shouldn´t be reading this forum...

Quote from de Souza :

Ps. Who's Dengucho? He seem to be improving a lot.

Thanks for your opinion, but I guess that you´re the only one who thinks that, myself included...

Quote from farcar :

I'm just a fan who's concerned at the slowing (currently stagnant) development cycle.

Have to admit that everytime I see a statement like this, or a thread like this one, I always get the feeling that I might´ve missed something and that all the other sim titles have advanced tremendously without me knowing it. So let me make this little comparison exercise, and feel free to correct me, if I say something wrong, since I don´t play this other games:

Iracing - cost several times more than LFS, 5 years in development, millions of dollars spent and was released without pit stops, no flag system, no driver changes, and so no chance for endurance racing, no mechanical damage that I'm aware of, no weather changes, no real clutch simulation... But for what some people say, it´s as real as it gets...
Netkar Pro - the most similar to LFS in terms of concept and development team. After more than 2 years from its release, users are still waiting for a patch that solves some of problems that were present in the release and that lead to a very small community of players. It looks like this patch is coming soon, but no one knows if is still in time for this simulator to grow, or what kind of future it will have in terms of development...
RFactor - development has stoped since the release of patch 1.255 in 10 Dec 2007. It looks there´s an RFactor 2 coming, but at least that I´m aware of, there´s still no time frame set for its release, or what features will be present. Don´t think that we can say that it is, in its current state, better than LFS, except for the fact that we can create mods for the game, wich is another thing discussed to death in this forum, and that we know it won´t happen soon in LFS.
GTR EVO - the latest Simbim/Blimey (never know wich one makes what), titlle. Never played it, but it just looks another re-release of the same game that´s being sold, with some minor changes and updates since GT Legends (GT Legends, GTR2, Race, Race07, GTR EVO).

So, in it´s current state is it possible to race in LFS, with enough and well developed features, the same way or better than the other sims available in the market? YES.
Does LFS have any major bugs or flaws that prevent the use of the software, the way it's intended to be used? NO.
Is there any real, undeniable fact, like a statement from the devs, that the development has stopped or is slowing down? NO.

Of course that, LFS needs some of its features to be improved, that some need to be introduced, that new content is added, to keep people interested in the game. No doubt about it... But what I can´t accept is that people say that there´s no future for LFS, or that development has stopped, just because they got bored of game... LFS is a racing game, and a good race is always a good race, and depends much more of the people we´re racing with, than the track or the car you´re using. And there´s still the chance of good races in LFS, the same way it was before, as long has we find the right place and the right people to race with, being it in some public server, or the CTRA, or some of the many well organized leagues that exist in the LFS community. And this depends much more of each one of us than the devs of LFS...

Last edited by chunkyracer, Tue 25 Nov 2008, 10:44.

Quote from Macfox :

Is it too much to ask to feed the community with a bit of news once a month or so. Spark a little interest and remind us that things are progressing slowly but surely. The fact this doesn't happen, makes it really easy to conclude there's nothing to report. That may not be the situation, but history tells us a different story.

It´s only easy to conclude, because you want it to, but the history, if based in facts, is quite different:

version W - released Mar 31st 2007
version X- released Jun 8th 2007
version Y - released Dez 21st 2007
version Z - released Jul 2nd 2008

So, if you look at those dates, you´ll see that latest patches were about 6 months apart, and Z was released more or less 5 months ago. I didn´t see anywhere that we won´t have a new patch coming at the end of this year, or any sign of development stoping or even slowing down... In fact, there has been two updates, this month only, regarding the dedicated host, to solve bugs that were reported. Don´t know what you conclude of that, but to me it doesn´t look like an indication that there´s nothing to report.
I must admit that, altough I think that people have the right of stating their views on the future of LFS, all this talk has became quite repetitive and boring, like ,that because some people got bored with LFS, they need to try and create the notion that everybody feels the same, and that LFS is heading to a slow death...

Quote from tiagolapa :

Lol

I like mini sagres

I´m more of a "Super Bock" fan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Bock), altough the one I usually buy now is "Tagus" ( http://www.tagus.pt/) in the 25cl bottle, that I think it's pretty good.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Edit: Lol, "Hamilton had right of way". This isn't the Green Cross Code you know, this is racing at high speeds. It's obvious from that comment alone you've never sat in a race car and had your championship rival pass you because of a small mistake on your part. You're attempting to analyse F1 using the wrong mindset.

It looks like your experience in a race car doesn´t help either, since your opninions are based on the drivers involved, and not in the situation itself. At least considering your views regarding the acident at SPA:

Quote from tristancliffe :

It was still the same manouveur though. Kimi realised he'd misjudged the grip, and reduced his braking as part of his defence - totally legal. He had the inside line and was also totally allowed to squeeze Hamilton prior to the second apex.

Let's pretend there is no run off area. Just armco. Had Hamilton kept it out of the armco and navigated the corner then he would have lost a lot of ground. He didn't - he cut the track and stayed close to the Ferrari.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Hamilton had the inside line to the second apex, but because of the turn itself he was no longer ahead or even alongside, and thus had no rights to the racing line.

So Hamilton had neither overlap (at the critical point) or momentum (Kimi got there first).

Quote from tristancliffe :

I don't see what the problem is either. He came into the corner behind Kimi, and left the corner much closer to Kimi than he would have been had he not cut.

Surely being closer is an advantage. And it was gained by cutting the track. Which bit doesn't make sense here?

Quote from Glenn67 :

Curiously after a search for 30mins I cant find that thread

I think this is the one you´re talking about: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=44139 . Must admit that remembering who started it, help a lot in the search...

Quote from Rocabiliz :

Yes, it was, i was there
Also, next weekend it'll be the host of the FIA GT. Though, as i said, still very soon to race there. Hope it gets good really quickly

That's not correct. Next weekend we´ll have the Spanish GT Championship and PTCC- Portuguese Touring Car Championship. http://www.autodromodoalgarve.com/en/eventos.html
Afaik, there´s a FIA GT planned for next year, but I think it doesn´t have a defined date yet...

Quote from BenjiMC :

wasnt world superbikes there this weekend?

Yes it was: http://www.worldsbk.com/pubb_EN/news_ext.php?id=2681
Michael Shumacher was there too to watch the race, and yesterday he tested with Yamaha and Ducati.