The online racing simulator
Is LFS just a hobby project for its creators?
(116 posts, started )
Is LFS just a hobby project for its creators?
Is LFS just a hobby project for its creators? Its a pity if it is...
I have no experience with real life sport cars, but damn, lfs is the only simulator you feel like you driving a heavy piece of metal on a rubber. It totally looks and feels like an honest finite element simulation, but by some magic performs x10000 faster. I understand its an approximation with like a dozen force vectors, but damn, isnt it a know-how that should have ended up in some big-ass game with plenty of real tracks and millions players? SAD
#2 - lucaf
Wasn't it a big-ass game in last decade? Isnt that enough? Smile)

Somehow I am not sad its not the most popular sim today. It means it lacks all the millions of noobs and crashers that you meet in multiplayer of modern sims.

I personally don't feel sad LFS doesnt contain more real tracks. Many popular modern race tracks I don't like - mickey mouse tracks cluttered with artificial chicanes - driving them gives very little satisfaction. Instead would be lovely to have real tracks from the very past (40yrs old -->) when chicanes did not exist.

I feel privileged to have the opportunity to still experience LFS among a beautiful, small community with talented professionals giving you infinite challenges. Currently in LFS there are enough leagues fulfilling my needs of experiencing simracing.
#3 - Ped7g
A: no, it's full time project for them, making their living. They just have quite different process and goals when compared to common commercial game developers, they simply take it at completely different pace, focusing on the final vision, taking it at steps which look appropriate at this moment, not pressuring into some kind of treadmill of new content patches/etc. just to please customers.
#4 - lucaf
+1 Ped7g nailed it. Looks like end of thread, otherwise popcorn time Petals
Quote from lucaf :+1 Ped7g nailed it. Looks like end of thread, otherwise popcorn time Petals

ey can i have some
Just downshift very quickly in most of the LFS cars and voila, popcorn is done.
Quote from Ped7g :A: no, it's full time project for them, making their living. They just have quite different process and goals when compared to common commercial game developers, they simply take it at completely different pace, focusing on the final vision, taking it at steps which look appropriate at this moment, not pressuring into some kind of treadmill of new content patches/etc. just to please customers.

Its always been a side project for them and never their main project which scawen has stated a few times, still that makes what they have achieved that little more impressive
#8 - Sobis
Quote from bishtop :Its always been a side project for them and never their main project which scawen has stated a few times, still that makes what they have achieved that little more impressive

Wait what do you mean "Its always been a side project for them and never their main project"? I believe Scawen actually said that LFS is actually their main project and it makes them their living. I'll try to search for that post.

EDIT:
Quote from Scawen :[...] We think we should earn money for the work we do. We work hard to make a game that many people love. If we don't get paid for it, we'll have to stop developing Live for Speed and get another job.

I can't pay you for this job, we are a small team and we don't hire employees. But I'd be grateful if you would pass on the message. Thanks.

Quote from Scawen :[...]
I do love this job and it is only because of the support of the Live for Speed racers that we have been able to go on so long.
[...]
We are very lucky to be able to work from home and be able to choose our time of work each day. It's really great to be self employed, being creative and making something that people enjoy. I want this to go on and to get done the things that we have planned, even if it takes a long time!

I don't mind at all that our earnings have decreased a lot from what they used to be, some time after S2 was released. That is only to be expected, without expanding the business.
[...]

I'm pretty sure you would find more quotes with this simple search
#9 - lucaf
Quote from Kid222 :Just downshift very quickly in most of the LFS cars and voila, popcorn is done.

Omg omg omg Dead banana .....hey when shall we have a popcorn smile in the "smiles"?
Sobis: ty, I would be too lazy to search for them, I just pay attention to what Scawen writes, so I knew...

(on contrary I don't pay much attention to what other people write, if you would search for posts mentioning this being just hobby project, you would probably find more posts, but the problem is, that those are not from the devs, usually just whiners whining about slow progress and lack of content Big grin .. so that's bogus info)
Yeah, I didn't like that Bishtop stated that as a fact without any quotes so I just had to find them, I don't like misinformation Big grin.
Quote from Sobis :Yeah, I didn't like that Bishtop stated that as a fact without any quotes so I just had to find them, I don't like misinformation Big grin.

maybe look in the forum at the earlier topics about lfs progression, i stated what i have read and if you wish to confirm or discredit it then look yourself. Big grin
But I did and he stated that this is their main job? Could you find the post where he states otherwise?
Quote from bishtop :maybe look in the forum at the earlier topics about lfs progression, i stated what i have read and if you wish to confirm or discredit it then look yourself. Big grin

Looks like you either miscomprehended what Scawen writes, or read someone's else post. Whatever, doesn't change anything about the situation.... Either way I'm waiting for next test patch... Smile
Quote from justadroover :...

If you're unhappy with way things are going with this game simulator, then delete your account and go away.

If you actually want to contribute, then buy one of the three licenses that are available.

If you do decide to buy a license, then you get the game 'as is'. You still don't get to say whether there will ever be additional cars or tracks, what direction the game will take, or whether game will ever be improved or finished.
Quote from Sobis :But I did and he stated that this is their main job? Could you find the post where he states otherwise?

Would lfs be a liveable source of income alone ? if so and i am incorrect good on them, i could see lfs at first as maybe having been a main full time project and providing a main source of income but not currently so.
In no way shape or form am i trying to say anything negative against LFS, as can seen by my stats i have put in many many hours of racing and will put in many many more
Quote from bishtop :Would lfs be a liveable source of income alone ? if so and i am incorrect good on them, i could see lfs at first as maybe having been a main full time project and providing a main source of income but not currently so.
In no way shape or form am i trying to say anything negative against LFS, as can seen by my stats i have put in many many hours of racing and will put in many many more

If you want the real opinion you have to look somewhere else, as all the old folks have moved on to other sims and places. You won't find saltyness or hate, rather nostalgia and a bit of longing for those simpler times...we've all grown old and emotional. Like here: http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/live-for-speed-build-0-6r-deployed.131254/

But general consensus seems to be that while LFS is still alive in a way, it's hard to imagine that it still pulls in enough sales to solely support the three Devs, one of which has a family. And that there would be no shame in admitting that if it were the case. People everywhere do multiple jobs and things to support their main passion.
Actually Scawen has stated that right now Victor has another job as he isn't doing much right now so if I understand LFS right now supports only 2 of them? I'll try to find a quote.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1869723#post1869723
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1823294#post1823294

Bishtop, please don't misunderstand me - I like that you're still so active in LFS and I don't have anything against you Smile. I'm just always trying to rely on direct Scawen quotes and not assumptions. And I do trust him.

E: yeah, those quotes are quite old now so who knows who's correct...
That's like over three years now. In other words, things have still worked solid here, so I see no problem at all.
Quote from ACCAkut :If you want the real opinion you have to look somewhere else, as all the old folks have moved on to other sims and places. You won't find saltyness or hate, rather nostalgia and a bit of longing for those simpler times...we've all grown old and emotional. Like here: http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/live-for-speed-build-0-6r-deployed.131254/

But general consensus seems to be that while LFS is still alive in a way, it's hard to imagine that it still pulls in enough sales to solely support the three Devs, one of which has a family. And that there would be no shame in admitting that if it were the case. People everywhere do multiple jobs and things to support their main passion.

it was the birthday of the NEW Blackwood 3 days ago !!!

On topic, indeed Scawen told multiple times that the few incomes from LFS was allowing them to continue. I hope they will succeeded to propose the new tire physics and this will allow for much much better things. I think it is the damned brake to not implement more cars for the moment (as it will require most probably a new pass on everything already exisiting). For the new tracks, Eric did show he is a master ; maybe not the quickest team (he is alone Tongue ), but just seeing the 3 latest tracks he made, it is just brilliant !!!
Good luck guys !!!
Quote from Flotch :I think it is the damned brake to not implement more cars for the moment (as it will require most probably a new pass on everything already exisiting).

Yep, Scawen has confirmed this - all cars will need tweaking for the new tyre physics, so new cars are coming after to save having to do them twice.
Quote from Flotch :For the new tracks, Eric did show he is a master ; maybe not the quickest team (he is alone Tongue ), but just seeing the 3 latest tracks he made, it is just brilliant !!!
Good luck guys !!!

Just to echo you and Lucaf, here's my track design ability cheatsheet:

Small root vegetable < Tilke < bad track designer < me < good track designer < Eric < whoever designed Brands.
Quote from Flotch :it was the birthday of the NEW Blackwood 3 days ago !!!

[...] For the new tracks, Eric did show he is a master ; maybe not the quickest team (he is alone Tongue ), but just seeing the 3 latest tracks he made, it is just brilliant !!!
Good luck guys !!!

Still, no one can tell me that it took a senior 3D artist (Eric's been in the business since at least 1994) 10 years fulltime to do one laserscan based track and 2 reworks of existing scenarios. Real world race tracks have been build in less time (looking at you Australia). From my experience in the AC modding community, total novices have brewed up AA+ fantasy tracks in around 3 years. That is from opening the 3D program for the first time to release upload. As a hobby/free time project.

Examples:





I mean for many years old fans had the idea that there was plenty of content on the shelves for the eventual S3 release, and naturally the more time went by, the higher the expectations grew. Then S3 came, and I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say the general userbase was a little disappointed.
Back to topic title, if LFS was a hobby these days, a side project, for me this is sorta ok. If its not, and this is the result of 10 years of full time work... :/
By stating Eric did only 3 tracks in 10 years, you assume we saw all his work => this is not true. Aswell, the tracks you mention are something quite huge compared to a track dedicated to be "only" a road with a scenery (by only I do not want to be disrespectful). Note aswell that Eric is participating to the development of the game, not only modding something existing (again, I do not want to be disrespectful with modders, but this is a different job).
AND there has been a serious stop in the progress of the project during some times as explained by Scawen. According to his last statements, they were now very active with plenty of ideas to continue the job !
Quote from Flotch :By stating Eric did only 3 tracks in 10 years, you assume we saw all his work => this is not true. Aswell, the tracks you mention are something quite huge compared to a track dedicated to be "only" a road with a scenery (by only I do not want to be disrespectful). Note aswell that Eric is participating to the development of the game, not only modding something existing (again, I do not want to be disrespectful with modders, but this is a different job).
AND there has been a serious stop in the progress of the project during some times as explained by Scawen. According to his last statements, they were now very active with plenty of ideas to continue the job !

Exactly, we assumed that there was content brewing/waiting to be released with S3 - which didn't happen. As far as we know Scawen does all coding for the game, including graphics engine, no one else.
And those tracks I linked up there are 100% fantasy products done totally from scratch by two different modders. The "swedish styled" one is based upon an existing landscape, but the rest is developed by the maker, the other is based upon a bit of general layout of streets (as in corner succession), but nothing else. I just wanted to point out how long it takes novices to do this. If we included replicas of real race tracks I could link you a dozen more. Modders are using LiDAR data these days, photogrammetry, the sim (modding) world moved a lot while LFS didn't.

The stop in development was iirc posted about after it happened, after years of waiting for the next progress report and years of test patches with "NOTE : THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR ANY NEW CONTENT" added to the post. I have to say the VR implementation is great, and opened new doors for LFS.. but it didn't help the whole thing not to appear like a passionate side project.
But eehh.. These tracks you are talking about, are not open world.

Same as for Rockingham, quite sure Rockingham needed to be re-modeled at least once, maybe more times. First it was low resolution and not open world alike. I assume it's a bit more work to do a fully open map/world. We can only guess at this point what this 'graphical update' is about, no other choice then to wait and see, it's been a full year without any major patch updates. That is a very long time in the digital world and maybe doesn't have the desired effect when it is released.. But hey.. It's their hobby... Project.. Or work. It maybe is work but I do not believe it's a weekly 40 hour job. By the looks of it, it is more a stop and run approach. But book writers have this way of working too.

Is LFS just a hobby project for its creators?
(116 posts, started )
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