The online racing simulator
Tire physics flaws
1
(49 posts, started , go to first unread)
Tire physics flaws
Quote :Only with the current tyre physics, we had to use unrealistic setups to make the car handle well. That's the good thing, it showed up flaws in the tyre physics

Just curious, what in particular is wrong with the current tire physics, if it's something you're willing to talk about currently?
From the New Tyre Physics progress report from 2008: https://www.lfs.net/news/893
Quote :While we were working on the Scirocco in December, we found that we could not make the LFS model handle as well as the real car. One of the reasons for this was that the LFS tyres had too much grip and this was causing the inside wheels to lose too much load while cornering. But simply reducing the grip would not have been a good approach... the result would have been just the same old LFS but at lower speeds.

The current tyre physics uses a slip-v-force curve that is made up to resemble the real thing, but not really based on physical principles. The lateral and longitudinal forces are combined in a made up way to produce reasonable results but again this is not based on physicsl principles.

So the result is that in various ways, the current LFS tyres don't react just like the real thing. We did make a lot of comparisons with real test data to try and get good results all those years ago and that's why it is not bad to drive.

I don't want to start discussing the new tyre model at this point but it is based on physical models of real tyres (with some assumptions and approximations) and compared with experimental data in better ways. The model is separated into the tread (contact patch) and the carcass (the belted, inflated, deformable structure).

My plan at the moment is to get the new tyre physics to a good condition where we are happy that it works better than the old one in all situations and then release it. There will always be more to be done, as it's not possible to make a perfect tyre model, so I expect there will be more improvements to come later, but without needing a complete rewrite.
#4 - BeNoM
Heart
i've never been so exited for lfs like now, looks like the new tires are finally comingPetals
Thanks but it will still be a while as there are always other things to be done, including graphical updates, new editor functions, etc.
Excellent work is excellent!

EDIT: Ofc the other thing is about is it successful or not Tongue Razz
ooooo... Scawen, you're such a tease <3
I would be glad to just see the Tyre physics be released first. Then the graphical, editor functions etc. Can come later on. But that is just my opinion. Wink
Thanks for the info and explanations lately Scawen, really interesting reading and nice to see new types of lfs content is well under way. The new tyre physics sound very interesting. I'm intrigued as to how heat is accounted for in the new model. Although as good as any sim out there in the old physics I always thought the tyres slid too much when overheated instead of wearing out quicker. They also took slightly too long to come back to a colder temperature when pushing less. This is based on my experience with Toyo and Dunlop slicks from racing in real life. Anyhow, exciting times ahead Smile
Quote from Alric :Thanks for the info and explanations lately Scawen, really interesting reading and nice to see new types of lfs content is well under way. The new tyre physics sound very interesting. I'm intrigued as to how heat is accounted for in the new model. Although as good as any sim out there in the old physics I always thought the tyres slid too much when overheated instead of wearing out quicker. They also took slightly too long to come back to a colder temperature when pushing less. This is based on my experience with Toyo and Dunlop slicks from racing in real life. Anyhow, exciting times ahead Smile

But not every tire is same either even if done "identical" by same manufacturer.

EDIT: my point was to mean that uhhm... well... not sure about of course, but I assume if you drive identical laps and identical stint, tires are everybody worn as same? If that is so, then tires are drastically developed further aspects. What I try to say is if upcoming new tire models with physics are based on something from real life, but are more like fictional tires, similarly like cars ( XRT is based on real life car, but it is not recreation from real life itself ), I think tires in LFS should be their own.
Quote from niller :I would be glad to just see the Tyre physics be released first. Then the graphical, editor functions etc. Can come later on. But that is just my opinion. Wink

+1
Thanks for the reply Scawen, and thanks to Flame CZE for the link, I had forgotten about that post.
Sounds like a good way to evolve the game. Just better what's there as an interim step. I'm excited, despite having an actual car that has real tyre physics anyway...
Quote from niller :I would be glad to just see the Tyre physics be released first. Then the graphical, editor functions etc. Can come later on. But that is just my opinion. Wink

Editors functions are not for players but for Eric, to allow him to do new things for the tracks he's developing, so definitely as important as tire physics. Wink

Off Topic: Rotareneg, I like your profile pic, ray tracing FTW Smile
Thanks for the reply Scawen. I was under the impression that LFS already had a physical based tyre model.
The current model is of course physically based in some ways but not in others.

And even the new tyre model will have various approximations too, as all tyre models must. But more of it will have a good physical basis than the current model does.
Idiots Guide to LFS Tyre Physics.

LFS currently has a virtual representation of tyre physics.

LFS will be updated to a 'more realistic'# virtual representation of tyre physics.

# ( Many years of work to try to replicate the 'real world' in a computer simulation.)

And, the Sirocco will still be a boring 2 litre front wheel drive. Now the LX4 and the Fox on the other hand.....Omg omg omg
Your post is based on facts, but it got ruined by your opinion due the being already bored of new content, which sounds very much salty.
Don't worry about him, he's salty about anything and everything.

It's better if you just ignore him, I for one am very excited for this "boring" car. Will be a blast on cruise servers and it's good to know we're still getting new content in a game so old Smile
When the time arrives to the point for Scirocco being released, it must be "silver" painted Tongue
~200 HP doesn't sound that boring to me (almost twice as XFG). But what do I know, one of my favorite cars is UF1... Smile
Quote from MarcisZ :~200 HP doesn't sound that boring to me (almost twice as XFG). But what do I know, one of my favorite cars is UF1... Smile

Close racing, maniacal drafting trains, and close qualifying Tongue
1

Tire physics flaws
(49 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG