What would it take to implement a rendition of the old Nurburgring with all 174 turns similar to the GPL? Would a license be required?

Wouldn't the addition make LFS the supremo numero uno racing simulation?

I was about to make a thread about all the licenses for tracks and cars. Hope you wont mind if I ask it here. Why all the games have to have a license for tracks and cars? Shouldnt the owners of the famous tracks be happy if they were used in games? They would only benefit from it. Or is there some other trick for licensening?

Just play GPL

Actually this has been discussed before once or twice. Seems it may cost a bit to have this (or any real track) in the game. But then, noone expected a fully-fledged F1 car in LFS, so I guess anything's possible

I'd sure like it, but I can imagine the carnage of an LFS pickup race at Nurby...even with 174 turns I can still see people trying to win the race at T1

You need a license, like just about any real track (except those based around public roads). The Nurburgring owners are all set up for it, they will also sell a set of detailed track elevation data to interested game developers (apparently, Papyrus (GPL), Polyphony (GT4) and whoever makes PGR all bought it). Don't know anything about pricing, though.

Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

I was about to make a thread about all the licenses for tracks and cars. Hope you wont mind if I ask it here. Why all the games have to have a license for tracks and cars? Shouldnt the owners of the famous tracks be happy if they were used in games? They would only benefit from it. Or is there some other trick for licensening?

Greed!!! If real tracks or cars were put in LFS (or any other sim/game), then the developers would be making money on having those tracks/cars. Therefore, it's just greed. They want a piece of the pie.

On the other hand, if they wanted exposure, then they would be happy to have their track/car in the game. Like the MRT and the RAC. They wanted exposure.

Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

Why all the games have to have a license for tracks and cars? Shouldnt the owners of the famous tracks be happy if they were used in games? They would only benefit from it. Or is there some other trick for licensening?

Money Grab.

I agree, The Ring would be a fantastic addition to LFS. It'd be very awesome to race at such a dangerous, infamous circuit with the BF1.

Or another approach. Make LFS available for modding and the community will add any circuits we want. Well I don't think we need a license if it's not official.

The reason for licenses is people want money. You'd not turn down a few thousand pounds to let someone make a computer game using a 3D model of your house

Whats the point in allowing mods when the game isn't even finished yet!?! The mods would probaly get broken every new patch released ... or physics at least. Not to mention destroying pick up races

Keiran

Quote from keiran :

The reason for licenses is people want money. You'd not turn down a few thousand pounds to let someone make a computer game using a 3D model of your house

Whats the point in allowing mods when the game isn't even finished yet!?! The mods would probaly get broken every new patch released ... or physics at least. Not to mention destroying pick up races

Keiran

How about allowing mods in a way that only track editing and importing is possible?

It would be stupid anyway. Imagine thousands of empty servers with crappy tracks. There would be no normal race.

Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

It would be stupid anyway. Imagine thousands of empty servers with crappy tracks. There would be no normal race.

Not quite... Do you really think if Silverstone, the Ring, Monza, etc are in LFS, no one would like to race on them?

Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

Shouldnt the owners of the famous tracks be happy if they were used in games? They would only benefit from it. Or is there some other trick for licensening?

Track owners might benefit slightly, but no way near as much as the games makers, which is why licenses can cost so much. The prime example is the Formula One license. Sony aren't the only publishers that want to make crappy games using the Formula One season, which is why they had to pay so much for exclusive use of it.

The only licenses you could possibly get for free are those which nobody else has the slightest interest in.

most ppl want the 'ring. The license is needed though. It's just so the track owners can get some dough. I would love to see someone open a drift server on the ring just for laughs, the car would pop the tyes on lap 1.

i would like to see the bf1 screaming around the ring.

Free mapping doesn't 'destroy' any other online games, I'm not sure why it'd destroy LFS. In my experience most servers will still run the original maps plus a small rotation of third party maps which come to be widely accepted in the community - this is what's happened in every other game I've seen where third party mapping is possible. A consensus emerges about which third party maps are good enough to be worth using, and the community then makes them very easy to access, by putting up a compendium pack on a widely used community website or something of that nature. It's a fairly self-moderating system, really: if you put up a server with a combo that no-one chooses to race on, you'll change the combo, most likely.

If Eric made a replica track to 'The Ring', I would be just as happy.
i.e. A 20 odd KM track of 100 or so corners.

Anyone know if LFS' engine can handle long tracks?

Quote from farcar :

If Eric made a replica track to 'The Ring', I would be just as happy.
i.e. A 20 odd KM track of 100 or so corners.

Anyone know if LFS' engine can handle long tracks?

It just wouldn't be the same thing. The Ring is unique, legendary. You can't just piece together a long track and expect it to have the same 'feel'.

The Ring is very unique, but propably not unresembleable (did I just create a new word? ). Eric would need to rethink his idea of a good track and propably have to drive some 20 laps on the Ring to get the idea of why it's so special, but when you got the hang of it, it would be possible to create something equally challanging. But I don't think Eric could do something like the Ring without having driven it by himself. He just doesn't do tracks like that. None of his tracks are the least bit comparable.

Vain

Why not? You have elevation changes, you have corners, challenging and not, you have bad tarmac (city), you have evrything. You just need some imagination.

Nurburgring wouldn't be right for LFS at it's current stage. It is too long for a general online server, it's only real use online would be for leagues. So that leaves offline which, at the moment, has rubbish AI that do not challenge your laptimes unless you let them run for a hell of a long time and so it would be no fun offline either.

When LFS has better AI then yes, I wouldn't mind the Nurburgring, but not at the moment.

Quote from wE1l :

Not quite... Do you really think if Silverstone, the Ring, Monza, etc are in LFS, no one would like to race on them?

Someone who obviously hasn't tried to play an online game with mods, rF, F1c etc

The problem with mods is mismatches, v0.0002 of a track or car has been released and generally by the time you catch up and get round to playing the game, your off to bed preparing yourself for tomorrows challenge. Then someone releases a new mod which takes over all the servers, leaving you no option but to play it. Look at the current track/car combos there's only a few that are played just now. What difference is it going to make if there fictional or not ... if they were all real tracks you'd still only see a selected few played

Unless the devs come up with a good system you'll have to say goodbye to fullish public servers and say hello to leagues.

Keiran

Quote from mrodgers :

On the other hand, if they wanted exposure, then they would be happy to have their track/car in the game. Like the MRT and the RAC. They wanted exposure.

The 'ring will get its real publicity from GT4/PGR where brain dead future Impreza/GT3 owners remember to take their cars their after they've made their fortune. They'll be very cautious in letting a realistic sim be made regardless of licensing pricing as they don't want people learning the track on (what they think) is going to be a realistic simulation. They get enough noob ends killing themselves thinking they can get their M3 round in 6 minutes on GT4 as it is.

Quote from keiran :

Unless the devs come up with a good system you'll have to say goodbye to fullish public servers and say hello to leagues.

I'm all for sims where you have to join a league to race online at anything other than one or two tracks (GPL/N2003) but LFS is not that kind of sim it has a unique marketof being a 5 lap sim where you can go for a quick race.

Also however advanced LFS gets it still doesn't have that edge that GPL/N2003 have which make lapping an empty track so satisfying. I don't know what it is, nK doesn't have it either (even though both nK + LFS are more advanced in terms of physics).

Quote from ajp71 :

they don't want people learning the track on (what they think) is going to be a realistic simulation.

I was at the 'Ring last summer and heard comments such as "I got 7:40 in my car in GT4, so I should be able to match that, I did loads of laps practice on the game". I spent quite a while trying to encourage people to be cautious and take it easy...

Quote from KillerMonkey :

It just wouldn't be the same thing. The Ring is unique, legendary. You can't just piece together a long track and expect it to have the same 'feel'.

I wouldn't expect it to have the same feel either, but a long and challenging track in LFS would be a great addition to the game.

In terms of online racing, yes leagues would be the main domain, but simply lapping offline and online time trials would be sweet also.