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Top Gear Discussions [Spoilers and fun inside]
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Quote from piggy501 :If you don't enjoy it, don't watch it, and leave those that do, to do so in peace.

If they were saying n*gger or p*ki we wouldn't even be having this debate, they'd be pulled off the air with immediate effect. Slope, Pikey... all are racist terms that come from exactly the same stable. That's why we're scratching our heads. Laughing at those slope or pikey joke is the same as n****r and p*ki jokes.
Quote from Intrepid :If they were saying n*gger or p*ki we wouldn't even be having this debate, they'd be pulled off the air with immediate effect. Slope, Pikey... all are racist terms that come from exactly the same stable.

yes and when you show a white paper with a white person in the background and say "it's a nice paper, but it's white" nobody gives a hump. it's more about how butthurt the people are who feel offended by the pun than if it's racists or not.
Quote from Intrepid :That's why I'm scratching my head.

FTFY as you seem to be the only one that cares around here.
Quote from CodeLyoko1 :yes and when you show a white paper with a white person in the background and say "it's a nice paper, but it's white" nobody gives a hump. it's more about how butthurt the people are who feel offended by the pun than if it's racists or not.

Give this man a prize.
Quote from Mustafur :Give this man a prize.

Plus don't forget that Top Gear UK is aired all around the globe, where noone would get those jokes. Pikey, Slope - apparently pretty UK specific terms (I didn't know them).
I knew pikey, im not english or anything but it seems to be a word used as a general sloppy job rather then casual racism on purpose tbh.

like in calling someone a fa*got because you think there an idiot or something not because they are homosexual or you think they are a Cigarette. words can have more meanings over time, and nothing is static despite what the common sense lacking political correctness crew say.
The latest episode (3x04) of Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle might be of interest to some people. It's available here on BBC iPlayer (for UK residents and people who can appear to be from the UK) and presumably will be on YouTube soon.
Quote from amp88 :
Sounds similar to the Ron Atkinson controversy. Sure, these are openly racist remarks.

Are they marks of a racist...or just words used by someone?
In my example (referring to someone as a "black c***")...surely the first word is a description of colour and the second word is the offensive part?..If he was tall the wording may have been "lanky c***"...or a beard then "beardy c***"..etc.
In your example (and link), there are people that defend Ron Atkinson...no doubt he used the same wording for years...and no one was offended.

Quote from amp88 :
I suppose it can be funny, but I don't really enjoy that kind of comedy. I prefer people who don't need to pick on differences or minorities to get their laughs (such as Stewart Lee, Dave Gorman, Charlie Brooker and Demetri Martin). Also see the John Thomson character Bernard Righton above.

Personally I do not find Charlie Brooker funny....Stewart Lee and Dave Gorman are entertaining though.
Bernard Righton is of course a BM parody,so....you find the thought of racism funny but laughing about it is not right eh?

Quote from amp88 :
I don't buy this "<x> hates everyone equally" defence. It's been used a number of times before (by Bernard Manning in particular). It's such a weak defence against the act of intentionally trying to create offence by singling out particular attributes (skin colour, sex, nationality etc).

I do believe that "<x> can hate everyone equally".
Maybe JC hates Asian people more than, say....cyclists....who knows...but comedy can be made from intolerance....because many people are intolerant, no matter if that is because you are a different sex/size/religion/etc. or you are just a noisy neighbour...or you have not said thankyou after I held the door open for you.....or you did not even nod to show your gratitude after I gestured you out of a junction in traffic.
Comedy will be fun for those that find it funny...if it is not funny then the comedian will neither be popular or last long.
Quote from Intrepid :Yes, if he didn't make the racist joke because it was racist that would be racist.

You misunderstood me there. TopGear is known for making jokes about serveral people, countries and ethnic groups (german is an ethnic group), so if you force the TG crew to not make jokes about certain ethnic groups then you are trying to exclude them solely based on their race.

Which would make you by definition a racist, as you are implying that their ability to deal with humour is inferior to those of other ethnic groups.
Quote from pipa :You misunderstood me there. TopGear is known for making jokes about serveral people, countries and ethnic groups (german is an ethnic group), so if you force the TG crew to not make jokes about certain ethnic groups then you are trying to exclude them solely based on their race.

Which would make you by definition a racist, as you are implying that their ability to deal with humour is inferior to those of other ethnic groups.

Quote from pipa :You misunderstood me there. TopGear is known for making jokes about serveral people, countries and ethnic groups (german is an ethnic group), so if you force the TG crew to not make jokes about certain ethnic groups then you are trying to exclude them solely based on their race.

Which would make you by definition a racist, as you are implying that their ability to deal with humour is inferior to those of other ethnic groups.

:clapclap:
Awesome, roll on the disagreements to that !

LOLZ, stopping humour is racism if the humour is based on race.
Quote from Racer X NZ :Awesome, roll on the disagreements to that !

LOLZ, stopping humour is racism if the humour is based on race.

Yes...roll on the disagreements..I am intrigued with other peoples ideas on racism.
For me, a racist is someone that has an instant hatred for a person due to their colour...colour is a primitive indication of your origin...
Racism is dealt out by racists.
Quote from Anthoop :Racism is dealt out by racists.

All this time, I thought racists were people who raced cars.

How incorrect I was.
Quote from Anthoop :Are they marks of a racist...or just words used by someone?
In my example (referring to someone as a "black c***")...surely the first word is a description of colour and the second word is the offensive part?..If he was tall the wording may have been "lanky c***"...or a beard then "beardy c***"..etc.
In your example (and link), there are people that defend Ron Atkinson...no doubt he used the same wording for years...and no one was offended.

If you say "black c*nt" you're obviously using the word "black" as part of the insult, surely? If the person you're referring to had just said "c*nt" that would still have been offensive, but it wouldn't have been racist. Similarly, if Atkinson had just said "lazy" rather than "lazy n*gger" that wouldn't have been racist (unless, as with Top Gear's Mexican remarks, the word "lazy" was being used in conjunction with the idea of a specific group of people (Mexicans or black people, for example)). Yes, I saw that people defended Atkinson in that case, but his remarks were still racist to me and to the people he worked for at the time, hence his dismissal(s).

Quote from Anthoop :Personally I do not find Charlie Brooker funny....Stewart Lee and Dave Gorman are entertaining though.

Fair enough - one of the reasons I like Brooker so much is that he has a pretty broad range. He can go from a serious look at the way news is covered (as in Newswipe) to kind of immature punnery (as in A Touch of Cloth) with apparent ease.

Quote from Anthoop :Bernard Righton is of course a BM parody,so....you find the thought of racism funny but laughing about it is not right eh?

Clearly it's a parody of Bernard Manning, yes. I find it the character funny because it's effectively the antithesis of Manning and proves you can be funny without being needlessly offensive (I wish Top Gear would try and learn that). If your point is that Manning is OK because his routines resulted in Righton then I disagree. I'd rather live in a world with neither Manning (or people whose comedy is like his) nor Righton than one with both.

Quote from Anthoop :I do believe that "<x> can hate everyone equally".
Maybe JC hates Asian people more than, say....cyclists....who knows...but comedy can be made from intolerance....because many people are intolerant, no matter if that is because you are a different sex/size/religion/etc. or you are just a noisy neighbour...or you have not said thankyou after I held the door open for you.....or you did not even nod to show your gratitude after I gestured you out of a junction in traffic.
Comedy will be fun for those that find it funny...if it is not funny then the comedian will neither be popular or last long.

Quote from pipa :You misunderstood me there. TopGear is known for making jokes about serveral people, countries and ethnic groups (german is an ethnic group), so if you force the TG crew to not make jokes about certain ethnic groups then you are trying to exclude them solely based on their race.

Which would make you by definition a racist, as you are implying that their ability to deal with humour is inferior to those of other ethnic groups.

This part of the reply is to both of the above quoted sections (as they appear to me to be making the same point, broadly):

I don't think Top Gear should make jokes about any groups based on race, physical/mental disability, sex, age, nationality etc. That is absolutely not the same as saying "don't make fun of Germans, but you can make fun of the French, people in wheelchairs and Asian women". I also fail to understand where the idea of "if you make fun of everyone you're not being offensive" comes from. By definition, if you make fun of everyone you're being offensive to everyone. If I gathered one person of each race/nationality/sex etc in a room and insulted each of them in turn would that not be offensive?
Quote from amp88 :If I gathered one person of each race/nationality/sex etc in a room and insulted each of them in turn would that not be offensive?

That's called equality.
Quote from amp88 :etc in a room and insulted each of them in turn would that not be offensive?

If it was funny, no.. You never said to any of your friends or a brother, "you ugly piece of shi*, get over here" and then you hug him or something like that? If you find that offensive, we can easily end this siliness right away..
Quote from amp88 :By definition, if you make fun of everyone you're being offensive to everyone. If I gathered one person of each race/nationality/sex etc in a room and insulted each of them in turn would that not be offensive?

The topic we were discussing was racism and if you are offending everyone then you are clearly not a racist.

If you want to be butthurt and be offended, then be offended nobody cares about that.
Quote from pipa :The topic we were discussing was racism and if you are offending everyone then you are clearly not a racist.

If you want to be butthurt and be offended, then be offended nobody cares about that.

I just have a fundamental issue with the notion that by insulting everyone (whether it's on the basis of race, nationality, gender etc) you're not being offensive. It's just so totally illogical. How exactly does insulting everyone excuse you from the responsibility of your words?
Oh FFS, it's how you say it, can it be considered funny etc.. Offcourse it's offensive if you come to a road traveller and say "you filthy pikey!" for no reason, but if you use it in a "pikey's peek" fashion, then it's funny, and i'm sure it was funny to many road travellers.
Quote from amp88 :I just have a fundamental issue with the notion that by insulting everyone (whether it's on the basis of race, nationality, gender etc) you're not being offensive. It's just so totally illogical.

I didn't say that it wasn't offensive, i only said it wasn't racist wether it is offensive or not wasn't part of my argument.

The western society we live in values "free speech" very greatly and rightfully so. But that doesn't mean that people will use this for good and a lot of times they might say things that offend or disgust you.
However "free speech" is much more important than people that are offended, they have every right to be offended but you won't silence those offensive remarks (in a public place).
Only exception would be direct insults towards people(german law).

You may remember this sentence:

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" ~Voltaire
Voltaire. So wise. Philosopher and invented Volts.

Quote from amp88 :If you say "black c*nt" you're obviously using the word "black" as part of the insult, surely? If the person you're referring to had just said "c*nt" that would still have been offensive, but it wouldn't have been racist. Similarly, if Atkinson had just said "lazy" rather than "lazy n*gger" that wouldn't have been racist (unless, as with Top Gear's Mexican remarks, the word "lazy" was being used in conjunction with the idea of a specific group of people (Mexicans or black people, for example)).

This makes perfect sense.
Local newspaper published they are coming to Croatia. Can't wait to hear racist jokes about us.
Quote from DANIEL-CRO :Local newspaper published they are coming to Croatia. Can't wait to hear racist jokes about us.

I don't even know any racist Croatian jokes.

What is this!

Top Gear Discussions [Spoilers and fun inside]
(568 posts, started )
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