The online racing simulator
Question for DEVs - Track textures avaible in HI-REs?
(194 posts, started )
Quote from BWX232 :512 x 512? I would say 2048 x 2048 would look good... and most high end card s would have no prob with it.

Well, 512*4 = 2048
4^2 = 16

illepall

You are saying exactly the same as me, but you dont realize how much more ram consumption the result will be.
now 30MB -> 4 times the res -> 480MB
Quote from ORION :two attached pics.
1. a good asphalt texture, which looks like crap ingame
2. increased saturation in devils pics, which shows the ugly dds 16 bit style also for non-Orion geek eyes :P Compare ground - sky

@ devil:
Its normal that textures get unsharp when they are that near to the camera... what do you expect?? You would need 4 times the res to make it look a bit better, which makes 16 times the filesize illepall

the how about just decreasing the size of the grains instead increasing the res?
grains??
You mean tiling?
more tiling = more repeating effect = bad

[EDIT]lets call it "scaling", just likes valve does it :P

[EDIT2]some advaned read about tiling and repeating effect:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20010523/hajba_01.htm
Quote from ORION :grains??
You mean tiling?
more tiling = more repeating effect = bad

schau dir dein post nochmal an, ich mein die KÖRNUNG=GRAINS wenn die kleiner sind wirkt das in etwa wie eine erhöte auflösung...
Nur das Problem an der Körnung ist, dass die auch durch die Auflösung begenzt ist. Man könnte aber die Texture mehr schärfen, wodurch man mehr Körnung erhält, aber dann flimmerts schnell.

He means indeed grain, but this is also limited by the resolution of the texture, and can be increased with sharpening, which can cause flickering, though.
Quote :
@ devil:
Its normal that textures get unsharp when they are that near to the camera... what do you expect?? You would need 4 times the res to make it look a bit better, which makes 16 times the filesize illepall

Its not normal all the time.Look at the post with link above with oblivion.
Its looks similar as in LFS before guys found how to tweak it in Oblivion.

And to your post about 480MB of ram of textures.Some games use really high texture resolution and the amount of graphic ram used doesnt exceed 200-220MB ram.

I think there is place for 32bit textures and higher resolution as we use now.

As one of the earlier post half texture resolution could be compared to low-res.The max texture resolution we have now could be compared to medium settings and there is still place for hi-res version.
I described in my post above where seems to be the most visible lo-res looking odd a bit.
Show me a game that uses 4 times the texure res of LFS, thoughout, and with the same amount of textures.
NO WAI :P

DX10 games like Crysis dont count btw

All the games use Detail Textures to circumvent this problem.
http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/DetailTexture
Quote :Huh??? just click it... remove .th ?? What .th ??

Imageshack's thumbnail script doesn't work in all browsers. I have to remove that part of the URL too.

Quote :Here's a pic on same video card from Oblivion

Oblivion has awesome graphics up close, but only up close, the depth the screen is drawn at that quality is alarming short and once you enter an outside environment where the view range is longer it's like playing a public domain game from 7 years ago where the first few metres infront of you look good, the LOD pop is sub-freeware in quality, even I can do smoother LOD transition than that and i'm nowhere near as good as Scawen ! Put simply the attention to detail in Oblivion's graphics if used to the same extent in LFS would deface the game and make things worse.

One of your rFactor screenshots had the same mip mapping issue that LFS has, where one pixel of the texture is being stretched over more than one pixel on the screen. The other screenshots where from raised views and therefore had no close up road texture. I'm not saying rFactor isn't better or anything - I dont know about that - just those screenshots don't show anything useful.

The problem is a known one though, the texture res could be better.
Quote from ORION :Well, 512*4 = 2048
4^2 = 16

illepall

You are saying exactly the same as me, but you dont realize how much more ram consumption the result will be.
now 30MB -> 4 times the res -> 480MB

Who says it is a 30 mb texture? illepall illepall
What asphalt texture in LFS is 30 MB? and I don't even know if they are 512 x 512.. that was just a guess I never even looked.



I just looked and there is one called JAroad_t1.dds that is 1024 x 1024 ...

it is 513K. K!! not MB... So maybe it could use another Mip level? I don't know.. never really messed with that kind of thing.. I know one thing.. I get 150FPS in LFS and I am sure higher res textures at least on the road surface couldn't hurt anything.
I was talking about increasing the size of all textures, not just the asphalt texture.
Quote from ORION :Show me a game that uses 4 times the texure res of LFS, thoughout, and with the same amount of textures.
NO WAI :P

DX10 games like Crysis dont count btw

All the games use Detail Textures to circumvent this problem.
http://udn.epicgames.com/Two/DetailTexture

as far i know Quake 4 at highest settigns uses more than 500 MB of textures wich is 20 times more than LFS...
orion,

think about a real tarmac photographed from let's say not 1m height but 3m height.
result would be a higher res looking pic due to smaller tarmac grains... thats what i've meant.
and thx for the translation for the rest of the audience...:]
Yes I understood it, but the problem is that you need to sharpen it more, otherwise it will look more like the marble asphalt in GT Legends

@Honey:
Yes if you set to uncompressed textures (if its the same as in Doom3), which is absolutely nonsense as the visuable difference is zero
By the way, Doom3 engines texture look crappy and low res
I guess most of the texture ram is used by the normal maps.
Quote from Becky Rose :Imageshack's thumbnail script doesn't work in all browsers. I have to remove that part of the URL too.

.

He said he was using IE just like me and that it worked fine after he fixed a setting..
If simple images don't work in your browser - get a new browser.




Quote from Becky Rose :
Oblivion has awesome graphics up close, but only up close, the depth the screen is drawn at that quality is alarming short and once you enter an outside environment where the view range is longer it's like playing a public domain game from 7 years ago where the first few metres infront of you look good, the LOD pop is sub-freeware in quality, even I can do smoother LOD transition than that and i'm nowhere near as good as Scawen ! Put simply the attention to detail in Oblivion's graphics if used to the same extent in LFS would deface the game and make things worse.

One of your rFactor screenshots had the same mip mapping issue that LFS has, where one pixel of the texture is being stretched over more than one pixel on the screen. The other screenshots where from raised views and therefore had no close up road texture. I'm not saying rFactor isn't better or anything - I dont know about that - just those screenshots don't show anything useful.

The problem is a known one though, the texture res could be better.

You call that outdoor screen 7 year old freeware crap? That is from my own PC.. That kind of GFX would deface LFS?


Since there are no tracks 25 miles long I guess that pop up wouldn't be an issue.. Again I showed one pic as an example of a specific thing and you went off on some tangent about how crappy Oblivion GFX are and how awesome LFS is.. what is wrong with some of you people?

Also those are very high res custom textures being used in those rF screens in a DirectX 9 GFX engine.... they show something.. if you can't see it I dunno what to tell you. It was an example. that is all.
Quote from ORION :I was talking about increasing the size of all textures, not just the asphalt texture.

Well I wasn't talking about raising the size of all textures... so illepall doesn't apply to me in that post I guess.
We are talking only about the textures, and in your screen they look absolutely silly in the distance. Becky is absolutely right there.

Quote from BWX232 :Well I wasn't talking about raising the size of all textures... so illepall doesn't apply to me in that post I guess.

Of course that wasnt meant personal or something, it should just show how insane the idea is I couldnt know that you only wanted to increase the asphalt texture. Sorry for that
Quote from ORION :We are talking only about the textures, and in your screen they look absolutely silly in the distance. Becky is absolutely right there.


Considering it is a real 3D scene rendered with HDR and PS3 and very little AF since my system can't handle it..

compared to a tiny 1MB DDS texture..


I wouldn't be putting Oblivion down.. I mean I think it would be stupid to have a 3D engine like that for a race sim right now too- it would eat too much system resources... but please...



Saying Oblivion looks ridiculous? Have you seen Oblivion running on a PC? After all it isn't a screenshot generator. I don't know - this whole conversation is getting over run with LFS die hard fans that will say or do anything to praise LFS at all costs and put down any other PC game ever made ... I like a good discussion about GFX in a PC game.. but I can only handle so much BS.. C-ya.
This part of your first screen shows the problem - repeating textures, which looks very bad. And you dont have this in LFS.

Additionally, the texture res isnt much higher than in LFS. They are just using more tiling, which also causes the repeating effect.
Attached images
repeat.jpg
Actually that is because at that time I was running a mod and that was aside affect in certain situations. notice that at further distances that problem is not there. It was a defect in the mod.. They have since came out with better LOD and texture replacement mods that don't have that problem.

Of course the point was not about the textures in the distance, it was the asphalt textures in the first pic.. which you can have w.o textures repeating form a messed up texture mod.
Yes those pics look already much better, but Im wondering how they will look if the camera is 50cm above the ground, and not 2m.
The textures will be unsharp either - maybe not as much as in LFS though.

However, if there are higher res textures, I will install them of course, but I would prefer high quality jpgs
Quote from ORION :

However, if there are higher res textures, I will install them of course, but I would prefer high quality jpgs

I don't even know the difference.. or more importantly what the difference would be in game..
High Quality Texture Pack for Fern Bay, this is a bit of an experiment and i've taken pains not to spoil the original texture style of the game - sadly that means i've not made full use of the extra detail available, but it's either that or a lot more work totally retexturing the track.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=129376#post129376


When it comes to that Oblivion debate, the screenies can look pretty (although the first one shown highlights the terrible texture tiling in the bottom right and the horrendous low poly mid and far distance landscape). See it moving however and you will see some of the worst landscape coding to have ever been produced. It looks terrible when it moves, but I cannot show you in a screenshot - still images don't show it's problems.
Quote from ORION :Yes if you set to uncompressed textures (if its the same as in Doom3), which is absolutely nonsense as the visuable difference is zero

the compressed normal maps still take up almost all of the 256 mb on modern cards
in other words lfs takes about 8 to 10 times less texture ram than modern graphics engines
Quote from ORION :I was talking about increasing the size of all textures, not just the asphalt texture.

I agree however with Scawen that not all textures need to be hi-res.Still I would like the option to donwload ALL textures in hi-res version.

We all know that if LFS want to keep on track with other titles(upcoming also)it need to make big changes in graphics including 3D engine update,texture res. update,polygon count updates.

@Orion
Jpeg textures are really not the way to go as the graphic cards support in hardware different texture formats and not dirrectly jpeg.They would be still converted and you would need to write 1st a software part in LFS and this consume a CPU time as well.

Off topic:
Still it scary me 1 thing that Windos Vista at certain point will only support in hardware layer DX10 and everything down will be just done in emulation mode therefore huge performance drop(hope Scawen alreasy noticed it).Maybe there is a point to think with LFS S3 not only going to DX9 but also have in the pocket the smooth transition to DX10 support.
Still the initial Vista shuld come with DX9L which is compatibille with DX9(a,b,c) and also lower.
Quote from Becky Rose :High Quality Texture Pack for Fern Bay, this is a bit of an experiment and i've taken pains not to spoil the original texture style of the game - sadly that means i've not made full use of the extra detail available, but it's either that or a lot more work totally retexturing the track.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=129376#post129376

Any comparsion screenshots please?
What I read it doesnt look like really hi-res update as you described your upscalled original texture.This make definatelly big difference between original hi-res texture and your version.As I said I need to see first the comparsion screenshots.

Question for DEVs - Track textures avaible in HI-REs?
(194 posts, started )
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