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Quote from Myffe :Wtf all the crashes happened exactly at that part

Because it is a 280kph downhill and very bumpy breaking point, with lots of dust on the outside, awful visibilty coming out of the tunel, and a ridiculously small runaway area for today's standards?

Probably one of the toughest section of the calendar, for sure. I guess it gave the drivers a shock to come here after 4 Tilkedromes(and affiliated - Barcelona) in a row.
Quote from Intrepid :Can't see it myself.

I think RBR can maintain it's quali advantage here unlike other circuits where it falls away. Last year Webber was so much quicker and Hungary proved the right tracks RBR can maintain it's quali pace into the race.

McLaren's starts haven't been brilliant either.

I hear what you are saying, but RBR race trim over qualifying has not been consistent this season. I think Martin Brundle even said that trying to compare this year against last year is nigh on impossible with all of the tech and rule changes.

It's an impossible call I suppose, but I think the McLaren's look more comfortable on the track which bodes well for the race distance.
Can't see it myself. Wouldn't be surprised to see Webber slot into second and RBR bring a 1-2 home. It's a shame because the WDC is now all but over... but Vettel has been faultless while their rival trip over themselves time and time again especially McLaren's constant quali errors.
Quote from Intrepid :Can't see it myself. Wouldn't be surprised to see Webber slot into second and RBR bring a 1-2 home. It's a shame because the WDC is now all but over... but Vettel has been faultless while their rival trip over themselves time and time again especially McLaren's constant quali errors.

... Negative Nancy much? First blown diffusers will be outlawed by Silverstone, which will put a spanner in the works, second have you never watched F1 before? We're only 5 races into a 19 (maybe 20) race season. All it'll take is McLaren and Ferrari to get their act together, which isn't far away for McLaren and RBR will lose their dominance in a handful of races. I also imagine when RBR start to miss out on pole in quali Seb will start to struggle and make a lot of school boy errors.

Seb was gifted pole today (even Alonso has said pole should have been Lewis's). His luck is quickly running out.
Quote from P5YcHoM4N :I also imagine when RBR start to miss out on pole in quali Seb will start to struggle and make a lot of school boy errors.

Seb was gifted pole today (even Alonso has said pole should have been Lewis's). His luck is quickly running out.

qft

If Alonso said that wow, I thought Lewis would have pole, but it's quite astonishing that even Alonso said it.
It's just mindgames to rattle Vettel.
Vettel was just as fast as Hamilton in Q2 and almost half a second faster than Button in Q3. Anyone who claims Hamilton would have had the pole is just talking claptrap, if Hamilton was really faster than Vettel, he wouldn't be only 7th on the grid.

BTW what the hell's up with the blown diffusers? Are we back in times when whatever Ferrari didn't have was banned and whatever hack McLaren came with was allowed?
Quote from BlueFlame :qft

If Alonso said that wow, I thought Lewis would have pole, but it's quite astonishing that even Alonso said it.

Linky. If you trust the source is debatable and I'm too lazy to find it somewhere else. But if Lewis could have got out and punched in his laps, I bet he'd easily been on top, at worst maybe a few thousandths behind.
IMO Hamilton would of got pole.

The mclarens seem that little bit faster here.
I have a feeling that pole might not be as important as strategy. It's a tight short circuit, and tyres will really make a difference. It only needs a wrong decision on when to pit before the "cliff" or end up coming back out into slower traffic to mix things up.

Whomever can make their tyres last longest and build enough gap to clear slower traffic is the winner.

My money is on Button.

Some bookies have paid out already on Vettel, which I think is a bit misleading. Yes he is a long way ahead, but we are only 5 races in, and as P5YcHoM4N points out, anything can happen. I reckon it was a smart move by the bookies to mix things up a bit and get people placing more bets. There is no such thing as a poor book maker.
Would've.
Quote from MadCatX :

BTW what the hell's up with the blown diffusers? Are we back in times when whatever Ferrari didn't have was banned and whatever hack McLaren came with was allowed?

Did you not notice that McLaren failed with the strategy of Hamilton in Q3?
Quote from BlueFlame :Did you not notice that McLaren failed with the strategy of Hamilton in Q3?

I did and I kinda regret that, although I'm a RB fan. Now everyone can say that Vettel got just lucky. But what does that have to do with diffusers?
Quote from MadCatX :. But what does that have to do with diffusers?

Personally , I didn't mention diffusers.
You quoted the diffuser part of my post, did you accidentally delete the wrong part?
Quote from MadCatX :You quoted the diffuser part of my post, did you accidentally delete the wrong part?

Lol yea. :sleep2:
Quote from MadCatX :BTW what the hell's up with the blown diffusers? Are we back in times when whatever Ferrari didn't have was banned and whatever hack McLaren came with was allowed?

Actually Ferrari have borrowed the "Big Hole" exhaust from RB, which they tried to keep quiet. The blown diffusers are not the issue, but the use of engine mapping to keep the pressures up that's in question. The teams most likely to suffer are Red Bull and Lotus Renault - Renault being the engine manufacturer for both incidentaly. Martin Whitmarsh seems confident that the McLaren is safe from whatever rulings are passed in the technical committee meeting next month..
Quote from MadCatX :I did and I kinda regret that, although I'm a RB fan. Now everyone can say that Vettel got just lucky. But what does that have to do with diffusers?

Lewis, or rather his mechanics did make a mistake in not sending him out early to put a banker time in. Exactly the worst sequence of events happened next. Firstly he got distracted by Massa leaving the pits, and then had to abort due to Sergio's mishap. It really was shaping up to be a shoot out, and we missed out on how close it might have been. In this respect Vettel was gifted the pole, and in reality it might have been much closer.

This just about sums it up.
http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2011/5/12112.html
Now that Lewis has had his time deleted, does that mean he can choose the tires he wishes to start the race with? The rules say that the top ten drives must start with the tires that the fastest time was set with. Seeing as that was deleted, it would stand to reason that then Lewis could then use any set he wishes because he did not 'set a time'.

Quote from Squelch :Lewis, or rather his mechanics did make a mistake in not sending him out early to put a banker time in.

Ted Kravitz had repoerted that Lewis was out of the car for a while in the first part of the Q2 or Q3 due to a problem with the car that they fixed. So it might not of been an error, it was more likely due to a problem with the car.

Also on the subject of Perez, it seems that he had a puncture and that was why he was off line, and then when we went over the bump, his car bottomed out and he lost all control.
Hmm, good question indeed. It might roll back to Q2 where he used super softs to set a time there.

I just checked to see who would be promoted to 10th and therefore have a the tyre restriction. I'm now a bit confused.

Full Grid line up according to BBC

Perez is still shown 9th, in front of Hamilton. My understanding is the grid place is left vacant for drivers who qualified but are unable to race. Reports say Hamilton was demoted to 9th, and that would put Petrov 10th.

The plot thickens

Quote from Dygear :Also on the subject of Perez, it seems that he had a puncture and that was why he was off line, and then when we went over the bump, his car bottomed out and he lost all control.

I suspected a puncture at the time, but I just read Sauber claim that it wasn't a technical problem.
The left rear looks awfully under pressure in this screen grab
Attached images
Puncture.PNG
Quote from Squelch :Actually Ferrari have borrowed the "Big Hole" exhaust from RB, which they tried to keep quiet. The blown diffusers are not the issue, but the use of engine mapping to keep the pressures up that's in question. The teams most likely to suffer are Red Bull and Lotus Renault - Renault being the engine manufacturer for both incidentaly. Martin Whitmarsh seems confident that the McLaren is safe from whatever rulings are passed in the technical committee meeting next month..

I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of blown diffusers that you can use exhaust gases to increase the airflow over the diffuser? AFAIK RB and possibly Renault keep engine under power during braking to maximize this effect in flying laps, but it's not like they do it all the time. Higher fuel consumption and extra stress on the engine allows them to use it only for a few laps in the race. It kinda looks like an attempt to hamper RB to even out the pace. If this is where F1 is going, I might as well start watching GP2 where nobody can complain about illegal technical advantages...
Quote from MadCatX :I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of blown diffusers that you can use exhaust gases to increase the airflow over the diffuser? AFAIK RB and possibly Renault keep engine under power during braking to maximize this effect in flying laps, but it's not like they do it all the time. Higher fuel consumption and extra stress on the engine allows them to use it only for a few laps in the race. It kinda looks like an attempt to hamper RB to even out the pace. If this is where F1 is going, I might as well start watching GP2 where nobody can complain about illegal technical advantages...

That is the theory, but it is suspected that fuel is being burned off by severely retarding the ignition and is effectively being burned in the exhaust itself. Last weeks fire on the Renault might indicate something went wrong with Heidfelds system, especially considering they use forward facing exhausts.

Another clue is in the exhaust note. The "fart" that McLaren have been using for some time, is only on overrun into the corner. RB and Renault "fart" through the corner. My theory is they use the same properties as a Pulse Jet within the exhaust.
Quote from Squelch :Perez is still shown 9th, in front of Hamilton. My understanding is the grid place is left vacant for drivers who qualified but are unable to race. Reports say Hamilton was demoted to 9th, and that would put Petrov 10th.

Hamilton is 10th as he was penalised, 9th will be empty on the grid, just like Massa's place was in Hungry '09. Sauber can't put in a reserve driver because the driver who started quali is the only one allowed to race on Sunday.

Quote from MadCatX :I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of blown diffusers that you can use exhaust gases to increase the airflow over the diffuser? AFAIK RB and possibly Renault keep engine under power during braking to maximize this effect in flying laps, but it's not like they do it all the time. Higher fuel consumption and extra stress on the engine allows them to use it only for a few laps in the race. It kinda looks like an attempt to hamper RB to even out the pace. If this is where F1 is going, I might as well start watching GP2 where nobody can complain about illegal technical advantages...

F1 is trying to make the sport have a smaller green foot print, blown diffusers keep the throttle wide open while off the power, but dump the fuel directly into the exhaust to combust, bypassing the engine. It creates the maximum amount of exhaust gasses at all times, but burns shit tonnes of fuel, although not very green. The new regs will mean that only 10% throttle can be applied when off the power (essentially a high idle), so you can get some benefits of a blown diffuser, but not the insane amounts we have now.

But it requires whole new engine maps, hence the delay in rolling out the ban, which will hurt Renault Engines most as such reign in RBR and kill Lotus Renault completely. It'll also get rid of the controversial wet fart sound the cars make. Merc, Ferrari and Cosworth have designed similar engine maps to try and compete with Renault, but as they started the season with non-blown maps it is easy for them to revert back, Renault on the other hand don't have the luxury of non-blown maps, so needed to start from scratch.

The FIA could've been ****s and said "**** you Renault, you're breaking the rules, comply and be uncompetitive, or don't comply and get ejected from the championship year" so giving them a grace was rather sporting.
what were the bbc commentators going on about with regards to the drivers using the accelerator during braking? they said something about charlie whiting and silverstone...

Formula 1 Grand Prix De Monaco 2011
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