Oh, I'm sorry I missed that. I saw the picture but didn't know what it was supposed to represent. I still don't know. It doesn't look much like anything at all.
Anyway, since it claims to be braking torque and I'm fairly sure that it's what LFS calculated I rest my case. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Vain

Quote from vari :

This is a test patch thread that has a new implementation called ABS. How is it exactly offtopic to make comparisons to the real device that it's simulating?

I don't think that the intention of this tread is just to discuss what and whatnot should be in but rather how well the changes work, or both.

When you say that a test should be made with one new car I have to disagree as it's known to change from vehicle to vehicle (unless of course it's those specific cars we have in the game). And the fact that you post figures about winter tyres is somewhat amusing since LFS doesn't have those. (Even though ABS seems to outperform on tarmac)

You also mention the fact that the cars were used (in the report I posted). I would probably concentrate more on the fact that they were using more than 10 year old
ABS systems probably making them less effective compared to what we have today.

I don't think that it makes much difference that they used old cars and brake components when it comes to the balance between ABS and non ABS braking. If anything, it's likely to make ABS less effective in my opinion but that isn't a fact, just a gut feeling.

And finally, should ABS be in the game? In my opinion yes because it's a simulator afterall.

You are putting words in my mouth or failing to understand what i wrote.
At no point did i say we shouldn't make comparision to the real life counterpart. I said the conditions where abs is at disadvantage in braking distance are not relevant to lfs or this discussion. Hence why it has the off-topic quote as it's not related to anything in lfs.
Also at any point i did not comment on how abs affects braking distance in real life on tarmac and equivalent hard surfaces, or the validity of the results in the research you posted. I did not say abs shouldn't shorten braking distances in lfs, but if such an option is provided at it's current state you will gain considerable advantage in terms of braking distance, controllability and lack of flatspots.

Furthermore i did not say the test should use one new car, but a single vehicle. The point is the test environment has to be controlled. With used second or even third owner cars(read: cars with x kilometers driven, not old e.g. from year 1990) you cannot ensure any of that. You can play the guessing game on how it might or might not have affected the results, but the fact is results achieved like this arent reliable.
Also an abs system has some sort of diagnostic that'll let you know if there's something wrong with the system, without abs you have no idea until you virtually have no brake pads left.

Once again, I did not doubt that with abs you can and will achieve shorter braking distances in a number of conditions. Nor did I say that the results are completely wrong, but that they are not reliable or exact. Therefore I wouldn't quote them as facts.
If you want to continue your war on me, trying to disprove everything i say with invalid arguments, be my guest. You can also continue your mission on proving abs shortens braking distance, which i don't deny it does, but I will not be replying to any further messages.

Quote from Vain :

Can we get some technical data on the LFS-ABS?
E.g. can someone make a braking test on flat asphalt and read out the braking force? That way we can analyse how the LFS-ABS works and compare it to real life systems.
I've personally worked a bit with the internals of a very recent ABS system and I'd like to see how well LFS implements it.

Vain

I already did some testing, they are in my previous post: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1005928#post1005928

Scawen will you update some training lessons so there will be some info about ABS?

Quote from plehto :

I said the conditions where abs is at disadvantage in braking distance are not relevant to lfs or this discussion.

Yet we have tarmac, gravel and grass in LFS.

You said that LFS ABS reacts too quickly providing some figures and whatnot. I'm merely trying to point out that no matter how much worse you make it while still keeping it somewhat realistic (10 year old ABS systems, old brakes and cars), it'll still be better than non ABS braking so that won't help your mission so to speak.

Making it worse to the point to where it no longer simulates any real system would only put us back to square one almost (old brake help).

I don't know why you think this is some sort of war but I think it's probably best we let this be.

I was on a server yesterday which got a setup error where we got disconnected. I bet its because of the ABS, because once i turned ABS off and i didnt disconnect while the other did.

Quote from [UKR] Race King :

Are car shadows suppose to look like that?

nice Blackwood textures where did u get them?

For those who are interested in ABS in LFS I made little ABS test with XRG. Speed: 80 kph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEjodhr-Mjc&fmt=22

With ABS, the brake distance is a little bit longer

Ok I'll break my promise just this once.
You are again quoting me out of context, this is how it should go

Quote :

I said the conditions where abs is at disadvantage in braking distance are not relevant to lfs or this discussion. Hence why it has the off-topic quote as it's not related to anything in lfs.
*insert winter tyre results from the offtopic quote here*

I'm sure you can find a way to quote a part of this post as well to prove something wrong. And yes, I did not think about gravel or grass at that time, as i don't find grass to have enough traction or gravel physics to be adequate for racing.

Also if VW required abs to be modeled for the scirocco, just like TC for BMW F1, why does it need to be added to all the road cars?

I got an error... I was drifting on BL1 gp rev, and I wanted to rally, then I chose BL1 Rallycross REV, and pressed OK, when it finished loading the track, it crashed...

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: LFS.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4943e997
Fault Module Name: d3d8.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.0.6001.18000
Fault Module Timestamp: 4791a65b
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00045bf7
OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 64ea
Additional Information 2: cce9f653dd0f8eec446de52154d2f82d
Additional Information 3: bc8e
Additional Information 4: a8695c495b6422110fd841b26f6810d9

i'm bad in english and don't know much about errors, hope this helped

Quote from Flame CZE :

For those who are interested in ABS in LFS I made little ABS test with XRG. Speed: 80 kph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEjodhr-Mjc&fmt=22

With ABS, the brake distance is a little bit longer

Also tried 1500NM on XRG on autocross... from ~105Km/h around 42,5 meter with ABS, without under 40 meters!

Quote from AndroidXP :

LOL. That said, I just got the DX8 crash randomly. I'm on WinXP SP3 here, so it's not a Vista issue.

Thank you, it gave me a clue though I have not identified the problem entirely.

Quote from Specht77 :

I got an error... I was drifting on BL1 gp rev, and I wanted to rally, then I chose BL1 Rallycross REV, and pressed OK, when it finished loading the track, it crashed...

Problem signature:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: LFS.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4943e997
Fault Module Name: d3d8.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.0.6001.18000
Fault Module Timestamp: 4791a65b
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 00045bf7
OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 64ea
Additional Information 2: cce9f653dd0f8eec446de52154d2f82d
Additional Information 3: bc8e
Additional Information 4: a8695c495b6422110fd841b26f6810d9

i'm bad in english and don't know much about errors, hope this helped

Thanks, yes this crash has happened to quite a few people now - the characteristic is that "Fault Module Name: d3d8.dll"

I have done a possible fix but I am not at all confident about it, anyway test patch Z5 is coming soon...

What happened to, LFS is a driving simulator, No driving aids, YOU do the driving.

really failed on that one huh.

Thank you very much for the testing.

I have now uploaded Test Patch Z5 with :

New language included : Español Latino (still need to add a flag)
FIX : Crash on closing LFS from multiplayer while tyres displayed
Probable fix for shadow stretching bug on some graphics cards
Possible fix for an apparently random crash in D3D8.dll

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=51391