The online racing simulator
S2 Patch X10
(320 posts, closed, started )
What I fear is that we get a divided community.
We have the elite drivers that have wheel and only use cockpit veiw.


..And we have the arcade drivers, with mouses, keyboards, strange veiws and other..stuff,
that arcadish drivers on the servers on the boddom of the list.

Do we want that? I divided communty, that sais that some people are not as good as
other because of simple ways they prefer to playing the game?
I dont understand why so much people dont like this 'option' purposed to admins.
I think only some leagues hosts will using it. Maybe 5% max of all purposed open hosts.
Calm down this change and handicap thing is just an (very good) option its not dramatic if some of you prefer drive with an other view... join others hosts.
And to leagues manager this is a nice up to turn our leagues in "real life view".
Remember LFS is A simulator of drive this add take the right way to this.
Congrats again Scawen
Quote from Gunn :That may be, but if people want to race against each other using the same view they shouldn't be prevented from doing so just because another person has an old PC. Every game has this issue, not everybody's PC is going to be up to the task. It's great having server-side options so that those who would like to use these features or who are able to use these features, can use these features.

Maby you`re rigth, but still the Lfs world will be more polarized. We will have an "upperclass" (stiff upperlips) who will tell the rest of the bunch "You`re no real sim racer"

I get depressed when I see the guys defending the "inside view". They got the ball for free, an I and a lot other, have to "pay" to learn the game another time


So this debate is not so much about inside views, as it is about discriminating people, as I see it
The worry of the drivers with those posts is, that most or nearly all hosts are going to use this option.
In my opinion that worry isn´t without a reason. The admins or the team maybe drive in cockpit view and see the point realism, so they use this option.
But they don´t think far enough to see that it´s only a public host and there are many drivers playing since years with 3rd or other views.
This option should only be used in leagues or special servers.
Quote :=Bob Smith;480043]No, they were dowsized though, originally 3840x960. Tons of width but very little height, hence even with 100 deg FOV I can't see the dash in cockpit view. I'm not running a widescreen moniter, but three 4:3 monitors in a row.

Although, having just checked, and things weren't quite as bad as I made out. The normal in-car view had a seperate FOV setting, which was only set to 90 deg. Putting it up to 100 as well made them more similar (I can now see the very top of the dials).

Fixed example screenies:
LX4 in-car
LX4 custom (still in-car)

The LX is one of the worst cars, in many cars I don't need to adjust the camera at all. The MRT is worst though, I can't see anything of the car with the standard camera. Overall it's liveable but I'd still prefer "force in-car view" to allow similar custom camera positions.

Try going to Options, View. Near the top of the page is 'Pitch view and Rotate View. I think you'll be able to get just what you're looking for.
Quote from gwendoline :I dont understand why so much people dont like this 'option' purposed to admins.
I think only some leagues hosts will using it. Maybe 20% max of purposed poen hosts.
Calm down this change and handicap thing is just an (very good) option its not dramatic if some of you prefer drive with an other view... join others hosts.
And to leagues manager this is a nice up to turn our leagues in "real life view".
Remember LFS is A simulator of drive this add take the right way to this.
Congrats again Scawen

Inside view is not simulation.
I get the best feeling, when I see the wheels. Some of the cars as Mrt, fox and so, it dosn`t matter.

You can smash the gear from 6 to second, without any damage - Is that simulation. I hope for REAL SIMULATION, because then my drivingstyle will pay off
Quote from Lotesdelere :It's because I'm admin on populated servers and with the experience I can tell you who is driving with a mouse/keyboard/gamepad and who is using a custom/chase view only by spectating them (well, most of them).
You may be experienced enough to race using chase view but I'm seeing every day the results of the mayhem caused by people using chase view and who have no idea at all of what is happening around their cars.

Did you ask them what view they use?

Do you think they would cause any less crashes if they used cockpit view?
Quote from zeugnimod :Did you ask them what view they use?

Do you think they would cause any less crashes if they used cockpit view?

You can tell if someone is using incar view or custom view by hitting F12 while viewing them as a spectator. Amazingly, about 90% of people coming on our server use incar. Unfortunately you can't tell which 'custom' view is being used.
It's not a case of preference, it's the case that someone using 3rd person view has a huge advantage over someone who uses the cockpit view. With options like digital/analogue speedo that's down to preference.

Someone using 3rd person view can see exactly where the car is positioned, they can see any car alongside them without having to look left/right.

That is an unfair advantage over us who drive the car where your supposed to drive it from. What's the point in pushing the physics to the limit and drive it as if you were playing Grand Theft Auto?
Oh, ok, I didnt know that.

My second question still stands, though.
Quote from keiran :

That is an unfair advantage over us who drive the car where your supposed to drive it from. What's the point in pushing the physics to the limit and drive it as if you were playing Grand Theft Auto?

A typical stiff upperlip !
Quote from franky500 :Scawen, Without changing anything in my current config (except adding the force cockpit view setting) by default it is telling me that the config file is too long. is there any chance the limit can be increased? to save having to remove the notes above each setting?.

Thanks.

Noted!
Quote from Gunn :Absolutely.

Great. Just doing a bit of hypocrisy detection. None to be found.
Quote from The Very End :Do we want that? I divided communty, that sais that some people are not as good as other because of simple ways they prefer to playing the game?

It's not a matter of elitism for most people I think. It's more a desire to have everyone playing at the same level. In stuff like AutoX (which is what the feature was added for it seems) both chase view and wheels view are somewhat advantageous in that you can place your car easily around the cones. This just isn't that easy in cockpit view.

You're right that we might end up with a divided community though, and because of that I'm not too sure about the feature myself. I guess time will tell how bad it will become.

Switching view isn't impossible though, so if worst comes to worst you can train yourself to the cockpit view.
:worried::worried: great, now ill have probably a whole 2 servers to use. everyone will be on CTRA/STCC or forced cockpit servers. I'm starting to feel glad the AI is going to be updated.
When watching a replay, that was made on a server with forced view on, u can't choose chase and custom view. I think, this is a bug
Quote from wien :You're right that we might end up with a divided community though, and because of that I'm not too sure about the feature myself. I guess time will tell how bad it will become.

Bad?

Consider this as nothing more than balancing car classes we had earlier. Some suffer, some gain, most are not affected and it's all for a greater good to level the field the way it was meant to be in the first place.

It's also very unlikely that checking this option will gain foothold on most of public servers. Don't worry dudes!

P.S. It's up to server owners to use their money as they see fit. Either adapt or rent one yourself.
Quote from Scawen :Added new multiplayer option : force cockpit view

Finally, LFS becomes a proper simulator! Yayness!
Why are patch X9 and 10 out of the testing patch subforum? Just let test the small group of racers with the latest test patch instead of opening it to everyone... Now we will have endless discussions about the Force Cockpit View

I'm just happy I won't see a pc in the next two weeks (holidays) and let's hope there's a solution after it. By the way: I go with the Force CP view!
Quote from wheeler :Why are patch X9 and 10 out of the testing patch subforum?

Because they are not test patches.
Quote from Scawen :Here is a new compatible Patch : X10

Quote from Self quote :P :With my X2 version I can't join X10 servers, they are greyed in the servers list (wrong version).
I have no problems to join X9 servers though.

Hm, so I guess you did it on purpose ?
Attached images
X10compat.png
cockpit view or custom view its all the same to me, don't see any difference in lap times. but to be fair all cars are adjustable, seats go up and down backwards and forwards and even the steering wheel can be moved.
to force people to drive in a position thats uncomfortable is wrong.
so some adjustments are necessary.
Quote from spankmeyer :Bad?

If the community becomes divided because of this, i think that's bad, yes. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though. People will most likely adjust like you say.
Quote from zeugnimod :Do you think they would cause any less crashes if they used cockpit view?

I think about 75% of the crashes caused by chase view drivers could be avoided if they at least had mirrors.
Quote from keiran :That is an unfair advantage over us who drive the car where your supposed to drive it from. What's the point in pushing the physics to the limit and drive it as if you were playing Grand Theft Auto?

And seeing exactly where the car behind you is, is NOT an unfair advantage? Honestly, we are seriously 'waging things in different measurements' here.

Obviously there is a big(ger) group who seems already been using the cockpit view for some while. This group is completely used to it and don't spot the problem.

There is another group of people using chase car view or different custom views. This group seems smaller.

The first group claims the second group is cheating. That the second group has an "unfair" advantage. While this is so NOT true, that's a proven fact and whatever you bring on of arguements, the chase car view offers no advantage above other views. You see the cars left and right, yes, but you don't see them behind you. In cockpit view you have those buttons, to see behind you, you have your mirrors and you have buttons to look left and right. Where is that unfair advantage ?

I was during my holliday planning to race every day some hours, get back into LFS but honestly I'm having my doubts now. Why on earth can we play 3-4 years with no forced view and suddenly we have to ? This adds nothing to realism. I just went doing some laps on a combo I well know... I was totally lost. I had no idea where my car was, what line I was taking in a turn, was I on the curbs now or not ? I had not a single clue. Saying we have to adapt us to the view you guys like to use and being forced to use the view is brutal and inpolite. It is just not right.

Not much servers have it now, but what will we do if much servers do have it ? What will we do, if a server hosts a nice combo but with forced view ? What will we do if a good league, like the OLFSL or the XFR/UFR league, uses this forced cockpit option ? Withdraw from the league ? Stop racing in the league ? Quit our hobby ? Quit our fun ?

And as been stated before by someone, how hard would you guys not start yelling if there was a "forced chase car view option" ? Jezus, the hyprocisy here..

-It offers no extra realism, psychis do.
-A countable group of racers is forced in using another view after all this time, you just can't do that.
-Suddenly people using another view are having advantages and/or are being cheaters, since the have more view.
-Suddenly people using chase car view are "dangerous on the track", cause they have not enough view like in a cockpit.
-And yes, last but not least.. people using another view then the cockpit view are not only cheaters, not only dangerous but if they had used the other great god gifted cockpit view (spot the sarcasm?) they had been able that IF there was a crash where the were involved in to avoid it by 75%.
-We all know that things who are first 'optional' are later 'standard'.

Honestly, don't you guys see this contradiction ? We are cheaters using a integrated view and at the exact same moment we are more dangerous because we use that integrated view the Devs offer us !

And now the Devs make the option availlable under the motto "Add realism" to make it for hosts possible to deny us using the view we have been using for years now.


Some of you guys really fail me here. I had NEVER expected to be called a dangerous, cheating racer... because I use chase car view. This is indeed plain sad. And I really mean this. There was one forum I'd loved to read, no ranting, good topics, information, discussions, technical things, fun things... good people,who don't lower themselfs down in dividing things in groups (beside with the S2<>demo thingy) but now ...

:inq:
GianniC, ill be happy to race you. Ks and chase view here (wheels break too often for me to afford them) And i second what you say.....in a slightly more calm n tactful manner
This thread is closed

S2 Patch X10
(320 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG