The online racing simulator
S2 Patch X10
(320 posts, closed, started )
The cockpit view is itself far from realism, because of low windows FOV

Was it for a request or not? For me, forcing cockpit view is just nonsence, I think it wasn't thought trough and wonder that Scawen made such a thing.

With usual monitors (low FOV), you see the picture like if you are in the rear seat. The actual FOV of visible outside area is incredibly small, about 1/3 of screen size. For those who use to drive in custom view (i do sometimes BTW), this is a big inconvenience. I don't see any "cheating" in viewing from any point. Of course, someone could raise the POV in MRT to be able to see far, but disabling custom camera solves less problems than makes itself.

I'm pessimistic in this question, and think in many hosts this option will be turned on, due to someone "caring about realism". Saying "choie" at this point makes no sence, since someone chooses for a driver how he/she should drive at the favourite host.
Quote from Gopher04 :I think the word here that is being overlooked, is , SIM, LFS was never made to be a console/arcade game, and i can't say i've seen cars in real life going round my streets with a arm chair strapped to the roof or on the bumper..

Yeah, I'm concerned about the loss of custom camera. I see that a good many people use a cockpit view but because of their monitor arrangement, or preferred FOV, need to use the custom camera to make a cockpit view functional for them.

[edit] @ Dik Dolan... ROFL!!
Quote from SamH :Yeah, I'm concerned about the loss of custom camera. I see that a good many people use a cockpit view but because of their monitor arrangement, or preferred FOV, need to use the custom camera to make a cockpit view functional for them.

Yeah, I have just noticed that you can no longer move the eyepoint, this is maybe not a good idea because sometimes the eyepoint in some cars isn't perfect.

I think forced cockpit should at least give people the option to move the eyepoint, even if it's by a small amount, it might help to satisfy those that don't particularly like the idea of driving in the cockpit?.
Quote from danowat :Yeah, I have just noticed that you can no longer move the eyepoint, this is maybe not a good idea because sometimes the eyepoint in some cars isn't perfect.

I think forced cockpit should at least give people the option to move the eyepoint, even if it's by a small amount, it might help to satisfy those that don't particularly like the idea of driving in the cockpit?.

Yes this is the one concern i have about it, i always use cockpit view and always will, but i do custom move it abit, as the default settings are not good, so maybe Scawen can allow us to have this back some how, even in F1 they build the seating arrangement around the driver to what he prefers, in all sims i use you are allowed to get seat movement..
Quote from GianniC :Then use chase car view also ?

Hey, I've heared Bawbag is using a new G25. I'm using an old MS FF Sidewinder, with bad working software, thus making the center messed up and now and then the FF just drops out. Bawbag has an unfair advantage above me! :rolleyes:

When you are racing in cockpit view, you decide to do that, you are not forced. Saying that it is an advantage in seeing the entire car and skid marks in a chase car view is correct. Saying that this is an unfair advantage is wrong. The cockpit offers also an advantage the chase car view has (mirrors eg.), why is this on its turn then not an unfair advantage compared to chase car view ? One view may have on a certain point an advantage over another view, but don't forget the other view may have also an advantage on a certain other point on the one view.

Cause you decide, and a large group of other people, that cockpit view is "the way to go" and use that, that you and those people suddenly start saying other view users have advantages making them "alien like faster" than cockpit viewers, we are being taken of the right to decide by free will on what view we want to play this game ?

This is counter all those values and morals we get pumped in our head from when we barely can read, democracy. Saying LFS is no democracy is complete bullshit. Well perhaps it is the true... at least it used to be a democracy.

Want realism ? Work on the physics, but do not go force people to use different views to add realism, cause that is plain bogus.

Couldn`t agree more. The way of realism doest depend on what veiw you use, it`s how the game itself works, physics and so on.
Of course you can brag and say, HEY, I`M REALLY HARDCORE SIM RACER; BECAUSE I USE HYPER-REALISTIC COCKPIT VIEW!
it's a freaking option!!!!!

noone forces you to go on servers with that option enabled. If so many of you really don't want that... don't use it on your servers or don't go to the sedrvers that are using it, and thats it. It's like the can reset option... and it's not like we have only 10 servers.
Come on guys. If all the servers will use the forced cockpit view, I'll make a server for you without it. I think we've seen all the arguments on this topic already, so how about some useful discussion for a change?
Quote from three_jump :noone forces you to go on servers with that option enabled.

Yeah. But we kind of don't have that option, because there really aren't that many popular servers around.
Quote :It's like the can reset option... and it's not like we have only 10 servers.

Again. No reset is realistic on a absolute scale, views are not. They are very different things.
And yeah, we don't have 10 servers, it's more like 5.

PS. Yes, I do agree that outside view and wheels view may give an advantage to an user and they are not realistic viewpoints at all. But instead of forcing people to use pre-defined cockpit view isn't good, we need atleast some amount of adjustability.
WOW, this has really kicked off in here. Me personally, not 100% sure (yet) I understand its an option, server side. Its going to be interesting to see what leagues use this option, and will the number in league registration dwindle due to this

Just as long as we have a nice selection of servers ( some using it, some not ) then I cannot see it being a problem.

Like Forced Cockpit view is an option, so is joining a server that has this switched on.

Fordie
In past ,when racer take penalty, he have only 2 laps to done this....or he get spectating.
Why this thing is removed ?
I see on lot of servers many "noobs" driving permanently with penalty big mess on screen.
Quote from Crazy Harry :Totally agree. Thats why I use chase view, can´t get any kind of feeling in a static cockpit view.

same here, although, I use the hood view caos that's how you see it in real life.
imo, cockpit view without a "moving seat up/down, forward/backward" is a bad idea.
Current cockpit view is unrealistic, in real life, when watching road, there is only top of steering wheel on your fov.
That's why i use custom view, wich is cockpit view closer to windscreen.
Wich is also IN the cockpit and so it's not unfair with "standard" cockpit view.
For me is simple , i will not drive on servers forcing cockpit view.
Quote from danowat :I think forced cockpit should at least give people the option to move the eyepoint, even if it's by a small amount, it might help to satisfy those that don't particularly like the idea of driving in the cockpit?.

It would help me a lot, as that's what I have to do with the custom view. To equate it to real life, it's like someone telling me that if I have to drive my car, I have to do it in the position they set the seat in.

However, that would only suit me. Unless we all get these super-duper hydraulic g-force rig things, we all have to play as best we can with the options we have. We all have the same options to try to make up for the fact that we're all sat at home/where ever instead of in a race car on a track somewhere. The playing field is already level.

Making this an option biases the game against those who don't use cockpit view - it removes choice. We'll see in time if it's used or not. A quick check, and ~6% of 590 servers are using it as of time of posting.
Quote from danowat :All we need now is for him to somehow ban drifting and those bloody stupid cruise servers...........

Whats your problem ppl with drifting? In a simulation game you can drive the way you want.

Im drifting because i like it more ,that doesnt meen Racing sucks grow up plz

I found my self so many times spectating Conedodgers like it was a real race

If you cant drive in a spesific way its your problem, cheers =)
I drive in custom view, see screenshot, and im kinda uneasy about this 'forced cockpit view'... As you can see my view is still a cockpit view, i have only raised the seat a bit to see better. And now im not going to be welcome on some servers? Anybody really think my view is unrealistic enough to sort of 'ban' me? Atleast let people raise or lower their eyes/seats please.

I dont like this, I dont like it one bit!
Attached images
customview.jpg
With hindsight i think alot of these angered responses could of been avoided , maybe perhps intorducing the LXmonth at same time as X10 with this "option" was just bad timing.
Dont worry im sure things will carry on and people will still be able to race each other, all it takes is to for people to communicate all this will die down im sure.
As for the much recycled arguement thats going on here ,understand its an option, accept it and learn to understand that sometimes other people want different things.
Having the option i think, will help those that race for the enjoyment of simulating the experience of real driving to its fullest , knowing everyone around you is on an equal footing is somthing that makes it more worthwhile.
Look at teh balancing with TBO before this ... as an comparison on game psychology , you were doomed in xrt or rb4 unless you had good skill. now ... its so very close each car having advantages and disadvatantages. = better racing.
I know people have the complaint of FPS , if forced to use cockpit view
but what is possible , you want devs to make it so it runs on pII-450 with 60fps ? im sure its possible but lets remove the physics and cockpit etc
Sure people cant afford stuff , but i dont think thats a major issue for majority of serious users i see online,and for those that it is, cpu's and ram and good vga has never been so cheap!
Forced cockpits can only improve some of the driving i see online & even my own , to prove i uploaded 2 hotlaps using cockpit veiw and broke my pb 4 times in the proccess , fluke or just better spacial awareness ?
Also from my own personal experince those using cockpit or bumper view generally have much tighter car control when racing doorhandle to doorhandle.


so to summarise

(+1) for client to adjust seat position height/forward/back

+11111 for people to stop and thinking about themselves before posting. Instead of knocking it down think of ways to make it better
Quote from Gener_AL (UK) :...all it takes is to for people to communicate

All communication I've seen from Scawen himself is "LOL". I'm quite disappointed...

Anyway, there's way too much talk about damn views. There just should be available as many options for views as possible, so that everyone can find most comfortable settings. Any restrictions are just plain stupid. Especially as the cockpit view is not that good in LFS (plus cockpits are just ugly - hopefully that will change soon).

And good luck with your elitist LX week. :thumbsdow
Quote from hackerx :Any restrictions are just plain stupid.

The autocross competition proves you wrong. The restrictions there are absolutely fair.

Quote from hackerx : And good luck with your elitist LX week. :thumbsdow

Competitions are supposed to be elitist. Do you want prizes handed out down to 400th place?
Quote from hackerx :All communication I've seen from Scawen himself is "LOL". I'm quite disappointed...

Anyway, there's way too much talk about damn views. There just should be available as many options for views as possible, so that everyone can find most comfortable settings. Any restrictions are just plain stupid. Especially as the cockpit view is not that good in LFS (plus cockpits are just ugly - hopefully that will change soon).

And good luck with your elitist LX week. :thumbsdow

Since when does anyone drive flying behind the car or just above the wheels IRL? Oh wait, we've gone here already...

The cockpit view, though maybe not so good, is the closest to real life we have in LFS (except custom views inside ofc).

I think the idea of being able to move the view inside the car is the best solution.

Edit: Just messed around a bit with the cockpit view, and you can already adjust it a lot. The only thing you can't change is horizontal position. No other options needed...
Quote from Gil07 :Edit: Just messed around a bit with the cockpit view, and you can already adjust it a lot. The only thing you can't change is horizontal position. No other options needed...

Can you do this within the "force cockpit view" restrictions? It works online?
Quote from thisnameistaken :Can you do this within the "force cockpit view" restrictions? It works online?

Yeah, when I joined an 'F' server yesterday, all the axis sliders were removed.

I could only adjust the FOV and the mirror.

OT
Heh, heh. You wait. The way things are going 'round here, it'll be "don't mention the 'F' word", soon.
Quote from thisnameistaken :Can you do this within the "force cockpit view" restrictions? It works online?

No, forced cockpit is a fixed viewpoint, no adjustment allowed........yet
Quote from thisnameistaken :Can you do this within the "force cockpit view" restrictions? It works online?

Yes, I just raced on the LX Autox server with my pitched and rotated, and low FOV view.
Quote from Gil07 :Yes, I just raced on the LX Autox server with my pitched and rotated, and low FOV view.

Ahh, but no fore & aft, vertical or horizontal adjustment, right?
This thread is closed

S2 Patch X10
(320 posts, closed, started )
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