The online racing simulator
S2 Patch X10
(320 posts, closed, started )
Quote from richo :Jesus guys theres 300000000 threads crying for change and when some change comes we have 20000 crying like my 4yr old boy when i tell him its bed time.

How many servers do actually think will enforce it? Truly calm the hell down and put your panties back on..

This reminds me alot when bunnyhopping was nerfed in CS/TFC so many ppl cried that they would stop playing and it was all doom and gloom, now who cares?

Im 49, and certainly no kiddoe
I can`t remember the last time, i cried !? But you can ?

I bougth Lfs, because ONLINERACING was great, and physics blasted the other games away

Look at the poll - 68% is potentially forced view drivers
That gotta reduce my online experience, I think

I will still drive a lot, but I will start doing much more hotlaps, I think.
If I try to find an exciting server nowadays, I seldom find one which fullfill my needs. Now comes forced view, and that is doing no good, from MY point of view

More servers will be "closed", for me and my kind.

With this I leave this subject for good.

/Alland44, a noob, scumbag and with a "cheaters" raceview
Over and out !

EDIT :
And I beg you raceplanners. Please put the forced view thingie first, so we don`t have to read miles and miles of text, to find out, that the race is closed for us Please !
You still missed the point,
And your still behaving like a child , i dont like this so i,m taking my bat and ball and going home

Personally i cant see many servers closed to "your kind" some leagues maybe but i cant see many servers enforcing it.

****ing storm in a teacup...
Quote from richo :You still missed the point,
And your still behaving like a child , i dont like this so i,m taking my bat and ball and going home

Personally i cant see many servers closed to "your kind" some leagues maybe but i cant see many servers enforcing it.

****ing storm in a teacup...

/Subject no longer an option - Sorry !
I like how objects respawn really quickly in X10.


Here's some fuel for the debatees. You say you can't look back in chase view? Well look no more----

Look-back-hack-view for LFS chase view:



I have "V" and "Shift-V" assigned to my "Controller-Pad" so I can look back.

I enjoy games in Chase View. Never liked/enjoyed in-car so I don't use it.
Attached images
chase01.JPG
chase02.JPG
lookback01.JPG
lookback02.JPG
Just like driving an R/C car, totally detached
Quote from richo :Just like driving an R/C car, totally detached

Hehe, this is R/C...

Chase view is a lot more fun for me. That's all. Everyones different I'm just glad its only a server option and not enforced. When I saw the new Chase Camera Editor in patch W, I knew that the Dev's didn't hate us Chase View players. I was happy that day.
Attached images
RC_03.jpg
Is the problem of the non-cockpit-racers (the bad one´s) so complicated?

I try to explain it. Just now (10 July 2007 05.42), i see just 4 servers for me (S-S). So 4 games i can join now. So take the voting of 70% for 'i love to force all others to my view' and shift this to the servers and wups - just one server is left for me. Nice or?

I know, lfs isn´t a company with traditionel behaviour, but they´v allready lost some customers by 'cutting' out keyboard-users (some friends of me had to exit lfs). Now, the next step is to kick all non 'in-car-view-racers' - all of them are arcade lovers? hmm - some brain left to think about it?

The market for racing simulations is realy tiny. Is it a good idea to devide it in lfs?

More realism on cockpit view? Hmm - let´s take a real small car - perhaps the lupo - have u ever seen a lupo which has a width of 24" - assuming you have a 22" display?

Have you ever seen the nice 'scotty-beam-me-up-to-pit' in real racing? Please show me the small track-layout on screen, in a real racing car. Ups -can it be that i forgott all the other pc-specific things in lfs, like F12, F9 etc.?

LFS is the best racing GAME-simulation on the market, but still it´s a game. And sure, LFS belongs to LFS, they can do what they like to do with it. But it should be a thought worth, if just league racers are enough for the futur success of lfs.

For me it´s a simple thing - if can´t play this game like i love to, i won´t.

It´s a shame, that we 'non-elite-racers' where attacked, because we just don´t like the view of the majority. Tipps like go out and play nfs instead of lfs are perkiness.
Maybe Scavier are at the point where they want there Sim to viewed as a "serious" sim and are slowly removing the aspects that might be labeled "Arcade"?

Who knows, personally theres more then enough room for all types of play model.

And for the ppl who think hardcore is the road to ruin i think they better check out GPL , still kicking after all these years..
it only has to be serious if the server runner wants it to be that serious. its an OPTION.
Ho my god!! LFS is like Counter-Strike!!!

For each patch we have crying people who don't like the patch and pray the gods to get back to old realeases. Damn, just enjoy the new realeased work of the scawen's team and shut the f**k up !!
Can't wait for even more "it's an option!" or "go play NFS" posts. So useful.
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(Hankstar) DELETED by Hankstar
Wow Gary Neuman (spelling)!

listened to a mad live set a few weeks ago, excellent

Now get back to NFS:CarbonMostwantedUndergroundPorscheUnlimited

Yes that is an attempt at humour please do not take it seriously...
I have the forced view on one of my servers; but before everybody jumps on my neck, let me explain...
The server it is running on is supposed to be dedicated to FULL SIM mode using a G25, with autoclutch switched off...720 degree steering (or whatever the car is SUPPOSED to have, shifter, all 'aids' turned off...etc, etc.. I personally feel that if I expect people to be as close to realistic as possible, then a realistic view should be imposed. HOWEVER...I also agree with the idea that ANY 'custom' view should be allowable, as long as the whole body is drawn and that the view does not go outside of the confines of a normal cockpit, as mentioned before, the 'forced cockpit view' is far from what you can see from a real car seat!
Personally, while racing, I prefer a view just level with the edge of the screen...the wiper blades are just visible at the bottom..a sort of 'further back' hood cam if you like...
What I think is needed is not the ability to FORCE certain views, but the ability to DISALLOW certain views!.
Quote from GAS-Hugo :More realism on cockpit view? Hmm - let´s take a real small car - perhaps the lupo - have u ever seen a lupo which has a width of 24" - assuming you have a 22" display?

Completely agree. Cockpit view isn't realistic either, without a special hardware to make a proper FOV in the eyes.
Quote from detail :Completely agree. Cockpit view isn't realistic either, unless without a special hardware to make a proper FOV in the eyes.

I don't think anyone is saying cockpit is realistic, but there is no getting away from the fact that cockpit IS the most REALISTIC view available in LFS.

There is a difference in the two statements.
Quote from GAS-Hugo :More realism on cockpit view? Hmm - let´s take a real small car - perhaps the lupo - have u ever seen a lupo which has a width of 24" - assuming you have a 22" display?

You don't see the WHOLE dash in LFS (well, I don't), just like you don't see the whole dash in a real car, when you are driving and concentrating on the road/track ahead, pretty much all of the dash is in peripheral vision.
hey, i think need make force engine stall if we have now force cocpit view
Quote from Bladerunner :I have the forced view on one of my servers; but before everybody jumps on my neck, let me explain...
The server it is running on is supposed to be dedicated to FULL SIM mode using a G25, with autoclutch switched off...720 degree steering (or whatever the car is SUPPOSED to have, shifter, all 'aids' turned off...etc,...
.
.

Nice of you to offer the option. What's getting more players, the forced view server or the others? How's it going? It would be nice to know.
I'm kinda tired of being called elitist in this thread I'm using cockpit view in LFS, but do in no way feel elitist or want to force people to use it. I do think it is the most realistic view to use and for me it gives the best feedback on my driving. In e.g. ColinMcRae and Toca I always used bonnet view and I was very surprised when I first played LFS it was not there.

With a RWD car in S1 I was able to better control the car when driving chase view at first. I could see better when the rear was actually breaking away from me. After a little while I was able to interpret it similarly in cockpit view, but then again I still suck at RWD and hardly ever drive one of them

I honestly think every view can be gotten used to if given a little time

Do I think someone hosting a server should have a lot of options available to host a server in a way he feels that the game should be played. Hell yes. I've hosted a gameserver myself (not LFS) and nobody was going to tell me how I could host my server. I wanted to have a place where I could play the game like I wanted and looking from visitors quite a few people agreed with my view.

It's similar for LFS, if I could host a server I would want to have a lot of options for me to play with so I could host a server that completely agreed with my personal idea of LFS. Everybody has different ideas on how this game is MEANT to be played/interpreted, but it does not really matter. There will always be people with similar sentiments and they will find a place that meets their needs. There are so many servers empty it is almost laughable how people are complaining they imagine cannot find a server if Force Cockpit view becomes standard (which will only be if it is actually in the dedicated server config from the start). "Build it and they will come" should work even here. Advertise a server that does NOT force cockpit view but still is very stable/quick and uses a nice configuration. Popularity of a server is a fickle thing and mostly a full server attracts other racers.

It's a server sided option and for me it would weigh heavily that framerates could be really drastically reduced in cockpit view. I want people to have fun playing LFS and low framerates really detract from having fun imo.

As was mentioned by someone else, what is really going to be important is the damage aspect of the car. I've rolled over and the roof was actually blocking my view in the cockpit view. I still kept driving and having fun in a way that would have been impossible to enjoy similarly in wheels/chase view. So this damage aspect is the only real reason that should influence a decision for forced cockpit view. Do you want everyone to have the same problems after flipping over? I can imagine people going for realism will do, but still mostly league only. For a public server NOT targeted at the real hardcore side of racing, this forced view will simply never be turned on.

The panick can stop people... I have spoken
Quote from Woz :I agree with the view locking and feel it is a good thing but I think it should be so you are restricted that the view must be inside the car. The reason for this is simple...

When things like visible windscreens that can get damaged and so effect visibility you will see forced view come in on most servers to stop people using views that mean you do not suffer the disadvantage. The Auto X need is already clear and shows why the locking is required and more and more reason will in the end make this a regular fixture on servers.

This is the reason NR2003 has hardcore mode where view and graphical detail are locked to give an even playing field. I believe the NR2003 hardcore mode also locks FOV at 65 but I think that is a step too far.

Chase view has BIG advantages over the other views because you are high up so you see further in front and over cars in front of you.

I notice that people are already saying the realism is getting in the way of their enjoyment but LFS has always been hardcore and it has been stated many time that it will get more hardcore because this is the direction the devs want to take it. Recent changes like no reset have highlighted this.

I'll just bumb this post, since everybody seems to have missed/ignored it. Granted we don't yet have shattering windscreens and smoke/dust from the cars only mildly obstruct the view. But I'm fairly sure (hope anyway) by S3 we have them.
hooray for more realism

also plz allow any view provided it stays inside the cockpit. LFS has super configurable viewport, why not use it

yeah, chase cam is just wrong, sorry
s2 patch 10
cool dev`s :banana: patch x10 dedi and game work`s fine, keep up good work

Quote from southamptonfc :I have found the framerate jumps around a lot more with X10, I found it got worse with X as well.

Yes, same here
Not only better FPS but the whole thing is smoother than before, which is good.


Quote from Boris Lozac :Scawen might think "am i ready to loose those 50 % of arcade loving players", but i hope he doesn't.

Seriously I don't understand why it bother you so much as long as YOU can use the options YOU want.
You will never join a cruising server and the cruisers will never try to win Masters of Endurance but both drivers can enjoy LFS as well, just in a different way.
Notice that no one complained when the false starts were introduced. There were some little discussions about clutch and handbrake, but no one said that the false starts are a bad idea. The problem with the view is that it's related to the feeling and feedback you get from the game AND it's directly related to the hardware you have. Obviously, the people who are using two or three 19"+ monitors are not playing the same game as the people who are using a 15" single monitor. Well, it's the same game but you know what I mean :P


Quote from alland44 :I bougth Lfs, because ONLINERACING was great, and physics blasted the other games away

You got the point


Quote from richo :Maybe Scavier are at the point where they want there Sim to viewed as a "serious" sim and are slowly removing the aspects that might be labeled "Arcade"?

Yes, they are aiming at making a simulation. But this is not incompatible with different ways of using it and with a good business strategy. To me the serious of the sim is about physics first. And I guess that's why we ALL enjoy LFS, hardcore racers or not. Damages, tyres, aerodynamics are examples of the next things to be improved.
The fact that LFS has good feedback and is already used, even as a show, by some famous racing teams, by some famous racers and by manufacturers like Force Dynamics and Frex already proves the serious of the simulation even if it's still in an alpha stage.

From a business point of view there is no point ending up with about 300 maybe 400 hardcore racers who have paid for the game three years ago and who are waiting for a release without giving money anymore. Any further update or version will even be more expensive for each one.
[mode=GranPa]
Being quite older than the lot of you, I have run several business in my life and I'm still running one. And believe me or not, bankruptcy can come quicker than you think and all of a sudden. A permanent cash flow is required. If you loose a large part of your customers and/or restrict the customers you have to a specific category, then problems will occur sooner or later in any business.
[/mode=GranPa]


Quote from Bladerunner :What I think is needed is not the ability to FORCE certain views, but the ability to DISALLOW certain views!.

Yes, of course!
Why no one is complaining about the option of making private server because it's much more restrictive than forced cockpit view?
This is a bug-fix patch from X. The force cockpit was added because of the LX Compo. So what's your point exactly?

Edit: Damn new pages
This thread is closed

S2 Patch X10
(320 posts, closed, started )
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