The online racing simulator
LFS on PS3?
(144 posts, started )
#76 - Migz
@ natedog420
Your a big cock sucker i think you should go back to ****ing your computers usb ports and then when your tiny litle penis has had enough you should crawl back up the shit hole from wence you came
#77 - SamH
Meh.. Migz earns an infraction for that diatribe. Take a moment to grow up a bit, please, and don't subject this forum to any more of that foul attitude and language.
Some1 installed vista on ps3,winboot=23 min,start menu comes up in 13 minutes! but its great lol
Quote from e2mustang :Some1 installed vista on ps3,winboot=23 min,start menu comes up in 13 minutes! but its great lol

they didn't install vista on ps3. they emulated it. in that sense, you can run anything on ps3. actually, with a bit of patience, you can "run" (actually emulate) anything on anything
I will say this. The PS3 is quite powerful on the CPU end of things, and as such, using wine, LFS could actually run quite well... but with only 256mb of ram... > > Don't expect too much..

That and i'm pretty sure.. yeah..

Though this version of Ubuntu looks quite promising.

http://news.softpedia.com/news ... u-7-10-on-PS3-73272.shtml


So theoretically it IS possible if you use Qemu... or if LFS was given more Linux support. =/

(cause you have access to 6 of 7 Cell Processors, all of which run at 3.2ghz i'm pretty sure.)

So.. really... all we need is more steering wheel support and more Linux support from LFS. XD that and a special edition that takes advantage of the 6 cell processors. maybe we could find someone willing enough to start the conversion process?

(not me. o.o i have no idea how to use linux to begin with. i just know the basics, and a lot about the PS3 XD)

Now, if anyone who has the quick ability to install a copy of linux (even that ubuntu i showed you) and test it out... =D that would be cool.
1) Doesn't work, No 3d support in Linux on PS3
2) Qemu makes it even slower, and Linux on PS3 is already slow (due to small RAM).
3) LFS does have decent Linux support, in fact is basically 100% supported in Wine.
4) We can't convert it as we don't have access to the source code. I'd go as far to assume that Scawen is the only one that has source code in fact.
5) SPU's are different from CPU's. SPU can only basically execute a function and return it to the CPU (SPU has no memory access), whereas a CPU has full hardware access.

6) Stop this whole thread, it will not happen, it cannot happen, and even now that the new PS3's are lacking the ability to do Linux... it is even less likely (and that's becoming less likely than impossible).

Yeah, Migz will pull out "OMG I DID IT", but show me it being playable with 32 cars or even 10 AI and I'll concede but at this point it will never happen.

/thread.
*looking Migz with this face *

Anyways, IF lfs was also coded for consoles or something then im pretty sure than PS2 would handle it very well tho. But, it doesnt even have that huge requirements so u need to get a fancy console. Eveyrbody who has a PC can basically run it. I dont see a reason why it should be released on any console at all.

Edit:
Quote from G!NhO :the ps3 is good, you are all just jealous you dont own one

Its more about taste i guess :P
Quote from G!NhO :the ps3 is good, you are all just jealous you dont own one

I'm pretty sure I am not jealous...
Quote from dawesdust_12 :1) Doesn't work, No 3d support in Linux on PS3
2) Qemu makes it even slower, and Linux on PS3 is already slow (due to small RAM).
3) LFS does have decent Linux support, in fact is basically 100% supported in Wine.
4) We can't convert it as we don't have access to the source code. I'd go as far to assume that Scawen is the only one that has source code in fact.
5) SPU's are different from CPU's. SPU can only basically execute a function and return it to the CPU (SPU has no memory access), whereas a CPU has full hardware access.

6) Stop this whole thread, it will not happen, it cannot happen, and even now that the new PS3's are lacking the ability to do Linux... it is even less likely (and that's becoming less likely than impossible).

Yeah, Migz will pull out "OMG I DID IT", but show me it being playable with 32 cars or even 10 AI and I'll concede but at this point it will never happen.

/thread.

1) Seeing how LFS is mostly CPU dependent, I don't really think that would be a problem.
2) Any possible way to use something as external ram? (Possibly program it? Hey, you never know the possiblity)
3) Just because it works in Wine, doesn't mean it's supported by Linux. Wine is (at least, without recompiling it... which is a pain) only usable on i386 processors i believe. Point is the PS3 uses PowerPC based cpus, apparently making Wine not work.
4) ... Doesn't mean Scawen couldn't hire someone to convert it.
5) Pretty sure that all the SPU's are under control of a main CPU. ...

honestly... this entire thing is Kind of enjoyable to think about...

6) Who says you NEED linux to do ANYTHING?

People like you really take the joy out of any discussion, you know that?

I mean, your thought is "Oh, if we just stop the thread now, then no one will ever think about it again." But to be honest, this thread is more informational than 75% of the internet. (40% of that space is taken up by 4Chan and it's similar forums).

I will continue to theorize how it could possibly work, just for the hell of it. =) Nothing you can do about it :P

Quote from Bose321 :I'm pretty sure I am not jealous...

Yes you are. Just you don't realize it cause your so jealous *kidding*

Honestly, the PS3 is a blessing and a curse. No one is ever online, but when they are, hell is it fun. ^_^ I love my metal gear online (though i wish the damn thing wasn't region locked >< oh well)

=/ Plus it does count as a bluray player, which is kind of nice.. (even though the downloadable media is getting popular, i still like to have a hardcopy, just incase i don't have internet or my harddrive goes bad o.O)
Quote from Arsenic_Fox :1) Seeing how LFS is mostly CPU dependent, I don't really think that would be a problem.
2) Any possible way to use something as external ram? (Possibly program it? Hey, you never know the possiblity)
3) Just because it works in Wine, doesn't mean it's supported by Linux. Wine is (at least, without recompiling it... which is a pain) only usable on i386 processors i believe. Point is the PS3 uses PowerPC based cpus, apparently making Wine not work.
4) ... Doesn't mean Scawen couldn't hire someone to convert it.
5) Pretty sure that all the SPU's are under control of a main CPU. ...

honestly... this entire thing is Kind of enjoyable to think about...

6) Who says you NEED linux to do ANYTHING?

People like you really take the joy out of any discussion, you know that?

1) Sure LFS is CPU dependant, but you still need something to draw the 3D to the screen, something that you cannot do in Linux for PS3 (bring up the patch 2.2 + RSX example and you're an idiot, as that was a long time ago and all it could do was draw a triangle, and since then that's been patched to not work)

2) You could use Swap Space but that's terribly slow (HD access), and a flash drive wouldn't be fast enough still. Short answer: No.

3) Scawen has stated (approximately) that he won't go to much extra effort to make linux work perfectly, but if it's a quick fix he'll do it as it allows more people to enjoy LFS.

4) Why would Scawen waste money and effort like that, trying to execute a project that cannot work due to the Hypervisor, the elimination of Linux from new PS3's, no GPU access, low amounts of RAM, and many core parts of LFS would need to be rewritten to work in a Linux world (Graphics Engine rewritten to use OpenGL, Sound and Input switched from DirectSound/DirectInput to a custom written sound/input handler. Also I'm sure that Scawen uses quite a bit of the WinAPI to deal with Windowing, something that would also haffto be totally redone to work with X11.

Short answer: Lots of work for no gain.

5) That's about all you have right, yes the SPU's are under control from the CPU, as they are essentially just hardware threads (rather than opening threads in an Application, you send it to an SPU). They don't have the rights or capabilities of a CPU, all they can do is work and return a result. So stop thinking of the Cell as a 6 cored beast, as it's not. It's a dual core PowerPC processor with several hardware threads. Additionally as LFS is written in a single thread manner, this would need to be redone entirely to take advantage of the cell, and ask anyone... threading is very very difficult.

6) This isn't really enjoyable to think about as it's impossible or at the very least very unfeasable and overall a waste of mental effort and a waste of database space. You would need Linux as that's the only way to execute your own code on the PS3 without a PS3 Dev Kit (good luck getting one BTW).

Yeah I take the joy out, but that's because I'm being realistic and presenting it in a reasonable and realistic fashion, I'm not off living in fantasy Peter Pan land. I think it'd be easier to wreck your hopes now then let you mull over it, get all excited before I tear it down by saying "Nope, impossible".

This thread should end, as it's a waste. LFS on PS3 will never happen, can't happen and is a waste of effort to even bother discussing. I've presented 2 posts worth of why it cannot work and if you don't understand it after that, then quite frankly you might be an idiot.

This is the problem of ingenuity we're having in the world.... everything has to be a realistic goal.

Did they think getting to the moon was realistic? No, they thought it was preposterous.

Did they think the earth was round? No said the realistic man, the earth is a flat plane. You are an idiot.

Is the sun the center of the universe? No says the Vatican, everything revolves around the sun as GOD intended it. That is just crazy.

Will it be possible to fly around the earth in 80 days? Crazy, unimaginable, unthinkable. Now we can do it in a few hours.


I'm usually a realistic thinker myself, but only when it comes to things pertaining of severe importance, like politics, school, and stuff like that. But when it comes to innovation, invention, and added functions, it's all about imagination. How do you think games like Gear of War are created? Do you think the people who created Katamari were thinking realistically? Who would have thought that a system meant for military use would be used in the future to house subjects such as this.

My acquaintance, everything around you was once a crazy idea, only floating in the thought bubble of one or a few men and women. Personally, I find it crazy how you can take these imaginative thoughts for granted.

Like I've said before, this is just a thought, and as such, should be provoked a bit. I've learned a bit of things from what you said, which was actually my true intention. It wasn't to see if using a Linux based port of LFS could work, but rather to find out why it doesn't work, which you gave very nice points.

I've realized from the beginning that the only good and true way to get LFS would be to port it to use the intended PS3 architecture.

Though, like I've said, if you have an idea on how to get LFS to work on the PS3, it doesn't hurt to try. You might just get on to something.

I mean, look at how by chance they found penicillin.

Edit: Also, knowing most people that lurk on the forums, you probably think that I'm just giving up cause I don't have a comeback. Sorry, but it's the way I was raised. Step-father always questioned things. How could you get it to work, why doesn't it work, what would need to happen to get it to work. Something just not working for a few reasons isn't a reason at all, but rather to get the whole picture is the best way for any debate to end. Also, the information a few people will gain from this thread is not pointless, so don't throw me that garbage. This thread is a perfectly good discussion. You are not a realist my neither-friend-nor-enemy person, but instead are a pessimist in the ruse of a realist. A realist sees the glass neither half empty, nor half full. He sees the glass for what it is. It takes an innovator to see what he can do with this glass containing a certain amount of milk. You are most certainly saying that the glass is half empty. It's impossible. You can't do it. There is no possible way. A realist wouldn't be so negative. A realist sees it for what it is. There is a possibility, but what it would take to do such a thing, we just don't know. We know of one way, but it is 99.999~% unlikely, and that would be a patch from Sony to allow it, but in the foreseeable future, it won't happen because they would want to protect PS3 games, and so you don't damage your system. It might not be a feasible idea, but it is still there, thus making it a possibility. Also, the way you are using "realistic" is in essence the business term. What might be "realistic" goals for one person could be "unrealistic" for another. For example, I don't live in a Peter Pan fantasy world. I live in your world. The same world as most of us do. But how can you say something is realistic to someone else? Do we see the same colors? Hear the same sounds? Or is realism a matter of interpretation, all in how our brain collects this data and puts it together. Reality is nothing but how you perceive it yourself. For instance, if you and a spouse were to get into an argument. You could say the same thing, but barely scratch the surface of your true intents and meanings. The "reality" of the situation would be what you were both thinking, and even if you could read each others thoughts, due to how both of you analyze, perceive, and relate, there are major differences in how you would interpret each others thoughts. This would cause conflicting "realities".

So... really, your statements of me having unrealistic thoughts can actually be countered. You stating that there is no possible way that this could happen is an unrealistic thought in itself. There is that possibility. What is the likelihood of LFS being on the PS3? Depends. If someone finds a hack to the PS3, then it's probability is increased. Scawen could accept a major "donation" from Sony, and thus release LFS as an indie game on the Playstation Store. There is a possibility. Just very small, unlikely, and, in a phrase you would understand, "Not going to happen.", but even that is an unrealistic phrase. So, go ahead, call me an idiot. Call this thread useless. If this thread is useless, then I wonder what threads are more useless than this. Probably about 90% of the internet.

These are just some final thoughts cause I went on a trail of discussion in that paragraph.

1) Informative
2) Very informative, until the short answer. That wasn't informative.
3) informative
4) Very very informative, even the short answer
5) I never thought of it as a 6-core beast, though i may have worded it that way. It does have more power than most dual-cores anyway, so still, it is quite a beast. But informative nonetheless.
6) You know whats a waste of mental effort? Everything can be a waste of mental effort. It really all depends on what the person wants to talk about to begin with. But at least it's better to put forth mental effort than become brainless zombies like most pre-pubescents on XBOX Live. Also, I've seen a few indie games on the PS3, so I wouldn't imagine it impossible to get a dev-kit, though as you've said, the threading would be difficult, and in Scawens case, more than he needs at the moment.

I wasn't all excited. I was just wondering if there were work arounds and such, but it wasn't a waste either. You put great points as to why it just doesn't work, but not necessarily in a "realistic", though reasonable fashion. There was going to be nothing to tear down to begin with. If I was going to start it, I would start it expecting little to no results, but I'd still give it my best effort if I was going to try.

So, I hope you honestly read this post. I see nothing we should continue here about whether or not it's possible. If someone wants to add on and say "I have an idea" and it is a logical thought, then so be it. Why not discuss it? It sure is more meaningful to discuss something than just say random things or post random pictures. These are the types of discussions that USED to be on forums before they became playgrounds for leet-speaking, overly idiotic, insenstive 12 year olds who have nothing better to do but talk about their E-penises.

And that, good sir, ends my post.
tl;dr.

Also, PS3 games will continue to get better as people get better at programming for it. Sure, you might think 5 years and it'll reach it's peak. But programmers can be an inventive bunch.

...figured you wouldn't.

i could cut it into sub-posts.


did you at least read the "final thoughts" part?
Look at the orange box, available for PC, PS3 and 360. I've played it all on PC, but only a few levels in Portal on the 360 (turns out Portal on a controller is not so good), yet it's still pretty much a game far more complex than LFS ported to consoles. It's not like it's impossible for this to happen with LFS. All it takes is someone who knows what they're doing (not me then) to decompile LFS, and port it for PS3 use.

Hardware certainly isn't a limitation if a game like HL2 (which looks amazing in both console and PC form) can run on consoles. I used to play LFS on an old Dell with 256MB RAM, a 9800 PRO (yes, the old AGP ATi, a far cry from the PS3's RSX) and a 2.2Ghz P4, comfortably at 60FPS with full AA/AF at 720p resolutions, before I built my new PC. That rig comfortably ran LFS, and the PS3 demolishes that in terms of hardware. Don't say hardware is a limitation, it's just down to the people who know how to ge the power out of the PS3
I did read your final thoughts, and I'm thankful that you acknowledge that I'm right.

Dougie:

Except that the PS3 version of Orange Box was given to EA to port rather than the in-house team of Valve. The Xbox and PC have similar enough API's that it's not unreasonably hard (Microsoft took the DirectX method). PS3 however uses OpenGL instead and OpenGL is very very different.
It's certainly not trivial to port to PS3 but all that's stopping Scawen is money, politics and most of all, willingness. I doubt he is willing as it's just not part of his business plan and would create a lot of extra effort for no short term gain.

While I suspect porting from PS3 to PC is easier, I doubt it's a walk in the park either. Yet LFS runs on PC, so clearly the technical knowledge is there. The largest long term workload, once the extra platform support is added, is maintaining 2 ways of doing things in however many places that was needed.

Quote from dawesdust_12 :You would need Linux as that's the only way to execute your own code on the PS3 without a PS3 Dev Kit (good luck getting one BTW).

There are 7 in this room.
Quote from Migz :@ natedog420
Your a big cock sucker i think you should go back to ****ing your computers usb ports and then when your tiny litle penis has had enough you should crawl back up the shit hole from wence you came

Are you 8 years old? I am going to put you over my knee and use a barbed wired belt on you
LFS + PC + PS3 gamepad. Works for me, it doesn't feel any different to the PS3 apart from the screen is a bit smaller (32" TV, 18.5" monitor). (The steering is a bit twitchy though.)
Yeah, because DirectInput kinda sucks... XInput would be great for LFS (with a 360 controller), but it's a lot of work for no real large gain.
Quote from brandons48 :LFS + PC + PS3 gamepad. Works for me, it doesn't feel any different to the PS3 apart from the screen is a bit smaller (32" TV, 18.5" monitor). (The steering is a bit twitchy though.)

I got u right? Ur using PS3 controller on PC? If yes, does the sensitive touch thingy work? Just wondering
Do you mean the motion sensing SIXAXIS? if so - no, but you have full control over the sticks, but because you can move it so fast it's a little bit nuts Works alright though.

edit: My new PC is on Vista though and I'm not sure if it will work. Works fine on XP (The gamepad itself)
He means the pressure sensitive buttons, but no, it doesn't work.
You can get six axis to work... though it's a bit difficult. (i had it working at one point)

And no the pressure sensitive buttons dont work.

=) I've been using mine whenever i'm too lazy to hook up my wheel, haha.

And who knows what the future might yield? (Though... the new Supra in rFactor feels great... so i might just play that more... o.O)
Quote from XCNuse :it would be worse; LFS is mainly dependant on the CPU, and since platforms have really bad CPUs, but good graphics card... you'd get like 10 fps

plus, why would the graphics change...?

lol - The PS3 has one of the world's most complex home CPU's buzzing inside it - if anything it's the 256MB of Ram that holds the beast back.
agreed russraine.

Though, for physics calculations, the PS3 would totally own my very own computer.

o.o though i kinda wish they would've put in a gig of ram... ._. would've been SO helpful..

LFS on PS3?
(144 posts, started )
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