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Personality: Most current F1 drivers have been given training in media & PR so that they convey the "team message" in interviews and public appearances. This tends to give them a "fake" appearance in front of the cameras. Hamilton has been doing the media & PR junk almost since he started racing, thanks to McLaren. This has given him the fakest personality on the whole of the grid. If you actually listen to him he doesn't appear to say anything, he just waffles on about his sponsors being the best in the world, he's the best driver, the team and he did a great job etc. He seems to have no real personality of his own.

Pre-F1: People often point out that Hamilton has been a champion of everything in his career up to F1. A large part of this has been due to the fact that he's had the backing of McLaren for a very long time indeed. He's been given an unprecedented opportunity for success, having been given all of the resources he could get to buy the best seats, best parts, best tyres etc. No other driver has been given such an opportunity. Many people reference his overtaking ability in GP2 as being a sign of his greatness, especially Turkey 2006. If you look at that race, he passed almost all of the cars in the field, which initially appears to be an amazing performance. However, look closer and you'll see most of the people either moved out of the way or made it incredibly easy for him to pass. There were a couple of drivers who didn't make it easy for him and it took laps to pass each of them. That performance doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

F1: He stepped directly into the McLaren seat which was either the best or the second best car in the field. How many other drivers have done a similar thing? Jacques Villeneuve and...Montoya (Ok, so the Williams wasn't the best car in 2001 but it was close). Even with the inferior reliability of the cars in 1996 and 2001 (respectively), Villeneuve and Montoya both put in performances which were arguably better than any of Hamilton's performances. Villeneuve came very close to winning the title in his debut season. Given better reliability he may well have done so. My initial point was that he stepped into either the best or second best car. Most F1 drivers have to prove themselves in the lower teams before they get offered a drive in the best team - regardless of their history before F1. We have yet to see how he would do in a lesser team, I suspect he would not be putting in very good performances. On the subject of good performances, I don't think we've seen anything great from him yet. He hasn't done anything where you could clearly see genius. The best drivers have always been able to do things which almost defied belief. I don't think Hamilton has put in such a performance yet.

Mistakes: He's made a lot of mistakes. Some of these are forgivable mistakes but a lot are unforgivable for a supposed top driver. China last year, Brazil last year, Canada this year etc. Everyone makes mistakes, yes...but not everyone makes these obvious mistakes again and again. The thing that annoys me more than the mistakes themselves is his attitude towards them. He doesn't apologise for his mistakes and when he's interviewed he spews out more marketing and PR about how he won't make those mistakes again, he won't be overtaken on the outside again etc. Then he goes and makes another mistake again or is overtaken on the outside again. Marketing & PR is only good if you live up to your promises.
Quote from Christopher Raemisch :Doesn't the points standings prove he is the best driver in F1 right now?

When it's also about the team and equipment, it can't be said that he's necessarily the best driver. Massa has been unfortunate on a few occasions this season with technical issues causing him to lose points. That's got nothing to do with the fact he's a good driver or not!

Personally, if talking about the best driver, I'd give that to Kubica. Driving an inferior car to the McLarens and Ferrari's, he's driven his arse off most of the season and done a stunning job!

I think to say you are the the best driver in F1 because you have the best equipment isn't right.
The problem with Hamilton is that he's British, and the majority of F1 followers in this forum are... British. I (and many others I'm sure) have trouble taking people seriously when they boast about a driver from their own country. It seems like there's this unconditional love that gets stronger the more you oppose Hamilton's monkey-business.

I mean... I'm glad you guys have another (likely) champion again, but hold out on the legendary-driver talk until he's a legendary driver in maybe 10 years...

What Tristan said also counts in a big way: yes, he's proven himself in karting and GP2 and all that where everyone has competitive equipment etc etc. That's the whole problem! We want to see Hamilton perform well in F1 with non-competitive equipment! Alonso has been doing it all season and he's a double world champion whom has now proven himself to be capable of competing after strings of bad results and bad equipment. Now, I know that Alonso and Hamilton were equally matched last season, but that absolutely doesn't mean that Hamilton would've done the same thing to Renault that Alonso has done this season and therein lies the big difference here. Put a great driver in a great car and he'll have great successes. Put a great driver in a bad car and you'll get Adrian Sutil - Hamilton and Sutil are not worlds apart in skill level really, and I for one would love to see Hamilton prove himself in a Force India, or Torro Rosso, or Williams. His major strength (and weakness) appears to be his self-confidence, so let's see what's left of that once he can't have a shot at the win every race.

However, we know that won't happen since McLaren has struck gold and will never give that up as long as Hamilton is succesful. This means that even though he might get written down in the history books as a numerical legend, in the hearts and minds of many he won't be the same as Schumacher or Senna, he just doesn't have the history in F1.
Quote from ultrataco :edit:
I would have to agree that's not a good choice of words to say the least. When did he say that?

After or during Monaco 2007, I think. My memory is hazy, but he made a comment about qualifying in front so he doesn't get held up by "the monkeys at the back".

Quote from Jertje :The problem with Hamilton is that he's British, and the majority of F1 followers in this forum are... British. I (and many others I'm sure) have trouble taking people seriously when they boast about a driver from their own country.

A bit like the Dutch and Jos Verstappen, eh?
#30 - mr_x
Quote from amp88 :Personality: Most current F1 drivers have been given training in media & PR so that they convey the "team message" in interviews and public appearances. This tends to give them a "fake" appearance in front of the cameras. Hamilton has been doing the media & PR junk almost since he started racing, thanks to McLaren. This has given him the fakest personality on the whole of the grid. If you actually listen to him he doesn't appear to say anything, he just waffles on about his sponsors being the best in the world, he's the best driver, the team and he did a great job etc. He seems to have no real personality of his own.

Pre-F1: People often point out that Hamilton has been a champion of everything in his career up to F1. A large part of this has been due to the fact that he's had the backing of McLaren for a very long time indeed. He's been given an unprecedented opportunity for success, having been given all of the resources he could get to buy the best seats, best parts, best tyres etc. No other driver has been given such an opportunity. Many people reference his overtaking ability in GP2 as being a sign of his greatness, especially Turkey 2006. If you look at that race, he passed almost all of the cars in the field, which initially appears to be an amazing performance. However, look closer and you'll see most of the people either moved out of the way or made it incredibly easy for him to pass. There were a couple of drivers who didn't make it easy for him and it took laps to pass each of them. That performance doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

F1: He stepped directly into the McLaren seat which was either the best or the second best car in the field. How many other drivers have done a similar thing? Jacques Villeneuve and...Montoya (Ok, so the Williams wasn't the best car in 2001 but it was close). Even with the inferior reliability of the cars in 1996 and 2001 (respectively), Villeneuve and Montoya both put in performances which were arguably better than any of Hamilton's performances. Villeneuve came very close to winning the title in his debut season. Given better reliability he may well have done so. My initial point was that he stepped into either the best or second best car. Most F1 drivers have to prove themselves in the lower teams before they get offered a drive in the best team - regardless of their history before F1. We have yet to see how he would do in a lesser team, I suspect he would not be putting in very good performances. On the subject of good performances, I don't think we've seen anything great from him yet. He hasn't done anything where you could clearly see genius. The best drivers have always been able to do things which almost defied belief. I don't think Hamilton has put in such a performance yet.

Mistakes: He's made a lot of mistakes. Some of these are forgivable mistakes but a lot are unforgivable for a supposed top driver. China last year, Brazil last year, Canada this year etc. Everyone makes mistakes, yes...but not everyone makes these obvious mistakes again and again. The thing that annoys me more than the mistakes themselves is his attitude towards them. He doesn't apologise for his mistakes and when he's interviewed he spews out more marketing and PR about how he won't make those mistakes again, he won't be overtaken on the outside again etc. Then he goes and makes another mistake again or is overtaken on the outside again. Marketing & PR is only good if you live up to your promises.

Very well put, agree 100%.

If Hamilton was team mate to Button in the Honda they wouldn't be racing each other - Button would be miles ahead as Hamilton has no idea how to get the best out of a slow car. Indeed I rate Button higher than Hamilton, it's just he hasn't had an opportunity in a fast car yet.

When he first came into F1, being British I was quite interested, his first race was very good infact, but then I took a minute, watched ITVs stories about him and how he got there and it got me thinking... He's had it all spoon fed to him since he was 8 years old, he's got the best of everything from Mclaren since he was 8 years old... He's not done any of the hard slog of finding sponsors/funding at all, Mclaren have done it all for him.

Indeed I'm dreading this winter, and after the Brazil race... IF Hamilton wins the championship there will be TV programs about it everywhere, everything, telling us all we already know, hosted by James 'let me suck his dick first please' Allen most likely. He'll be in adverts more than now... Indeed, I just want to put a shotgun to his face!
Quote from samjh :A bit like the Dutch and Jos Verstappen, eh?

Bad example

Jos Verstappen is an **** (pardon language) who doesn't love his sport. He didn't participate in an A1GP race -- and the rest of the season I think -- because his paycheck was late. Boohoo, I don't think the guy is liked by anyone in the Netherlands anymore since that whole debacle. In the end of course he was paid out the full million dollars for the season as was stated in the contract and he can choke on it for all I care.

Skipping on a race in front of his home-crowd at Zandvoort because his team couldn't pay him yet is very very low. Anyway, this thread is not about him so I'll end my rant early :>
Quote from mr_x :Button would be miles ahead as Hamilton has no idea how to get the best out of a slow car.

Seeing as Hamilton has never been "graced" with a slow car, you base your evidence on what exactly?
#34 - SamH
Quote from Jertje :The problem with Hamilton is that he's British, and the majority of F1 followers in this forum are... British. I (and many others I'm sure) have trouble taking people seriously when they boast about a driver from their own country. It seems like there's this unconditional love that gets stronger the more you oppose Hamilton's monkey-business.

The most critical of Hamilton on this forum seem to be the Brits while, conversely, he seems to have quite a bit of support from other countries. And dismissing someone's opinion because of their nationality is daft. If you're going to dismiss someone's opinion, at least have the decency to do it for the content of their argument.

It's also ridiculous to define your perception of someone's personality as being superficial, on the basis of coached, PR-oriented TV interviews. The level of irony in that is immeasureable.

Hamilton wasn't gifted a McLaren seat. He's earned it. He's done so annually. The motorsports business is fickle as hell. If you don't show you deserve it, you will lose it. Whether or not Hamilton had the best kit from karting through GP2 is irrelevent, because he demonstrated that he could use it better than anyone else in the programme. That's why he's in an F1 car today, because he's worked hard to get it.

Of course it's too early to describe him as a legend, but that doesn't mean you can't predict that he will become one. People were predicting that Schumacher would become a legend at this stage in his career, and they were right. I predict Hamilton will have a legendary career, and it has nothing to do with us both being British.
#35 - SamH
Quote from SamH :That's got to be the worst-spelled race write-up I've ever read.

Only the fact that it was all bold and in huge font size deterred me from even attempting a read - just skipped directly to the video.
I have nothing against Hamilton. However his fans are the most annoying there are and the constant media hype gets on my nerves as well. Maybe I´m a petty person but in my eyes that dislike then goes on to Hamilton.
#38 - SamH
Quote from Kalev EST :I have nothing against Hamilton. However his fans are the most annoying there are and the constant media hype gets on my nerves as well. Maybe I´m a petty person but in my eyes that dislike then goes on to Hamilton.

I find the adoration that commentators like Jim Allen have poured on Hamilton don't do Hamilton any favours. People do become irritated by hearing it. The truth is that it IS petty and/or irrational to then transpose that dislike of the adoration onto the Hamilton himself, but at least you recognise it and so it's thus rationalised - and you don't really hate him, you hate the hype.

It's no less or more wrong to hate irrational adoration than it is to hate irrational hating. I hate both equally.
I can't really tell why I hate him so much, but I think it has something to do with him about to win the championship. It's rare that I don't hate the guy that's gonna win. What's sad, though, is that I always hated Massa, and now I find myself supporting him in his fight against Hamilton ><

I also hate Alonso.

Really, the only drivers I wouldn't mind seeing as winner of the championship would be Kimi and Bob (and maybe Bob's team-mate, but he's so awful he'll never get there).

Agreed, SamH; usually, when someone's loved too much in a community, he eventually becomes hated by a part of it. There's also a great deal of chauvinism that springs into view when a country hasn't seen a winner for a while, which is quite annoying to the rest of the world. See Spain for example. There's no country on earth I find more annoying these days; they're just too good in every sport. I really hate Alonso.
I don't hate hamilton, i think he is the best F1 driver ever.
If you seen the Top gear episode where he drove the second to fastest laptime in the RAIN and he was singing in the car.

he deserves to win this year, and he should have won last year.
First of all i'm not a racist and hate from the racist people but many of them (racists) don't like Hamilton and they have an excuse ''Hamilton is black.'' This behavior is not acceptable. WE ARE ALL THE SAME.
Quote from SamH :The most critical of Hamilton on this forum seem to be the Brits while, conversely, he seems to have quite a bit of support from other countries.

Your goggles apparantly show different things than mine
He does have support from many different people with different nationalities, but then perhaps I would be right in saying, that the most fanatic supporters of Hamilton are the brits? His British fans seem to have formed a religion around him and his 'legendary' skill.

Quote from SamH :And dismissing someone's opinion because of their nationality is daft. If you're going to dismiss someone's opinion, at least have the decency to do it for the content of their argument.

That's just the thing: noone ever seems to respond to proper arguments without a good flame thrown in to get their attention. Just like now

I wouldn't dismiss anyones opinion based on their nationality, but I would question the reasoning behind it more so than if they had a different nationality. It's a lot easier to praise someone when national pride is involved, wouldn't you say?

There's just nothing Hamilton has, in my opinion, that puts him up there with the legends. I just do not see what a lot of people seem to? He's obviously a greatly skilled driver, put into arguably the fastest car in his debut season with the full support of his team with an experienced driver as his team-mate. Of course he did well! It doesn't take a great driver ten years to drive an F1 car fast, any superb driver from GP2 can win races in the fastest car.

So I'll repeat myself and hope it's heard:

"Put a great driver in a great car and he'll have great successes. Put a great driver in a bad car and you'll get Adrian Sutil - Hamilton and Sutil are not worlds apart in skill level really, and I for one would love to see Hamilton prove himself in a Force India, or Torro Rosso, or Williams. His major strength (and weakness) appears to be his self-confidence, so let's see what's left of that once he can't have a shot at the win every race.

However, we know that won't happen since McLaren has struck gold and will never give that up as long as Hamilton is succesful. This means that even though he might get written down in the history books as a numerical legend, in the hearts and minds of many he won't be the same as Schumacher or Senna, he just doesn't have the history in F1."
PEOPLE HATE HAMILTON BECAUSE HE'S FAST!

LoL?

Daddy had enough money to let him race at McLaren.. Look at Barrichello... He's nowhere now, but when he was at Ferrari, he won lots of races. I guess most of the drivers would be as fast (or even faster) than H. if if they could be at McLaren.
People should stick to cold hard facts, and not make assumptions or speculations based on opinion.
I supported him when he was coming up the ranks, then he reached F1 and started to open his mouth. Now I want him to make mistakes, just so he has to eat his words. As for British people being biased, well some may be, but we are also the most critical. I think one of the biggest reasons he has lost support in the UK is moving to another country the moment he is successful enough to pay more taxes, and help the country that has supported him and his family his whole life.

Personally I don't like his slightly arrogant comments in the media, and he driving style is a little bit too aggressive, some of his blocking and squeezing is borderline dangerous, it reminds me of Schumacher. However I do like his aggressive overtaking, and his natural instinct to win. I have more respect for Timo Glock though, brilliant race craft, not quite as fast but some of his overtaking and defending makes Hamilton look like a chump (not seen too much of it in F1, but in GP2 he had some great battles).
Quote from dawguk :People should stick to cold hard facts, and not make assumptions or speculations based on opinion.

Are you new to the internet?
Quote from ATC Quicksilver :driving style is a little bit too aggressive, some of his blocking and squeezing is borderline dangerous

Ah, I'd forgotten about this. Most of his moves at Monza this year in particular were very dangerous. Pushing Glock off the track and hitting Webber were both offences which lowered my opinion of Hamilton.
Quote from amp88 :Ah, I'd forgotten about this. Most of his moves at Monza this year in particular were very dangerous. Pushing Glock off the track and hitting Webber were both offences which lowered my opinion of Hamilton.

I haven't really had any issues with Hamilton's driving except Monza, where I thought he went too far. Forcing Glock off the outside of Curva Grande was ridiculous, he'd already beaten him so there was no excuse.
Quote from boosterfire :I can't really tell why I hate him so much, but I think it has something to do with him about to win the championship. It's rare that I don't hate the guy that's gonna win. What's sad, though, is that I always hated Massa, and now I find myself supporting him in his fight against Hamilton ><

I also hate Alonso.

Really, the only drivers I wouldn't mind seeing as winner of the championship would be Kimi and Bob (and maybe Bob's team-mate, but he's so awful he'll never get there).

Agreed, SamH; usually, when someone's loved too much in a community, he eventually becomes hated by a part of it. There's also a great deal of chauvinism that springs into view when a country hasn't seen a winner for a while, which is quite annoying to the rest of the world. See Spain for example. There's no country on earth I find more annoying these days; they're just too good in every sport. I really hate Alonso.

I guess I have to be proud of that?
#50 - SamH
Quote from durbster :Are you new to the internet?

I chortled at that
Quote from Jertje :Your goggles apparantly show different things than mine
He does have support from many different people with different nationalities, but then perhaps I would be right in saying, that the most fanatic supporters of Hamilton are the brits? His British fans seem to have formed a religion around him and his 'legendary' skill.

I don't see much by way of fanaticism regarding Hamilton. Perhaps you see it because it irks you so much. I can count 2 fanatics on this forum, for whom Hamilton can do no wrong. Everyone else who argues in favour of Hamilton delivers their arguments with healthy substantiation.
Quote from Jertje :
That's just the thing: noone ever seems to respond to proper arguments without a good flame thrown in to get their attention. Just like now

I wouldn't dismiss anyones opinion based on their nationality, but I would question the reasoning behind it more so than if they had a different nationality. It's a lot easier to praise someone when national pride is involved, wouldn't you say?

Nope, I wouldn't. There's a lot to be said for a bit of patriotism and I have no issue with people finding some pride in Hamilton for that. It doesn't equate to nationalism, since the British Nationalists (as an example) find nothing positive in a chocolate-flavoured F1 driver.
Quote from Jertje :There's just nothing Hamilton has, in my opinion, that puts him up there with the legends. I just do not see what a lot of people seem to? He's obviously a greatly skilled driver, put into arguably the fastest car in his debut season with the full support of his team with an experienced driver as his team-mate. Of course he did well! It doesn't take a great driver ten years to drive an F1 car fast, any superb driver from GP2 can win races in the fastest car.

From what I've seen so far, he's the makings of a legend. Kubica could, if he finds the spark. Alonso will probably live in infamy rather than in the ranks of the legendary. Kimi could have been a legend, if he could be arsed. I'm talking realistically, not just because Hamilton flies the same flag I do. Hamilton has everything that the legends have IMO, except track time. But then they don't make castles as old as they did, do they?
Quote from Jertje :This means that even though he might get written down in the history books as a numerical legend, in the hearts and minds of many he won't be the same as Schumacher or Senna, he just doesn't have the history in F1."

He's in his 2nd season. How exactly is he supposed to have the history in F1?
Quote from Töki (HUN) :PEOPLE HATE HAMILTON BECAUSE HE'S FAST!

LoL?

Daddy had enough money to let him race at McLaren.. Look at Barrichello... He's nowhere now, but when he was at Ferrari, he won lots of races. I guess most of the drivers would be as fast (or even faster) than H. if if they could be at McLaren.

Hamilton didn't pay his way into McLaren. He earned it by his on-track performance and his motivation and willingness to work hard. And Ron Dennis isn't his uncle. I keep hearing that one too, and it's silly.

It's still a long road ahead, for Hamilton, but I reckon he's got what's needed to do it. Time will tell.

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