Quote from AndroidXP :

but the chicane itself is fine.

except that it isnt really a chicane

The problem with all the LFS "chicanes" is that they are way too fast and wrongly shaped. One of the issues is the huge width of all tracks and other is the lack of tight turns. If we look at few of the corners individually we can defenately see a pattern.

Starting with Blackwood the T2/T3 is quite fast and the long straight really rewards any cutting done through the corners there. With the recent blackwood "fix" the curbs are far more friendly which make it even easier to cut the corners. The same really for both directions.
Problems: width, shape, cutting

Then there is the KY3 corner which has similar problems. Curb edges are bugged, the corner is way too fast and wide and you can gain time by cutting quite a lot. Really needs a redesign or at least a bugfix.
Problems: width, shape, bugged curb edges, cutting

Fernbay "chicanes" on the straights. Very fast and dangerous, getting the optimum line through these requires touching the tire stacks on both apexes. Easy to get wrong and cause a big accident to everyone coming after you. Curoiously enough the corners are placed on the middle of the straights so one might think that they are there to slow you down which they don't do at all.
Problems: width, shape, cutting, extremely dangerous

The other fern bay chicane-alikes. Always very fast, always going over the high curbs and mostly cutting as deep as it is possible to get away with. With the tire stacks the added danger of LFS-moonflights (R) is almost guaranteed.
Problems: again, width, shape, cutting, danger of autoX objects near the track.

AS5, the back straight kink. Probably meant to be another very fast couple of corners. The cutting is not such a big issue on this corner because dirt on tires will hurt corner exit altough there is some much green pavement on the insides of both turns allowing quite a bit curb on entry. The problems the huge width of Aston can cause have been quite succesfully taken care of by making the corner itself enough big.
Problems: too much green pavement

SO1/SO6. The "bus stop" is just a disaster waiting to happen. Again, too fast, too wide and one line through with walls right next to the track. Very dangerous set of corners.
Problems: shape, speed, lack of space, dangerous

Last corner of AS3. Quite nice corner which again is made too fast and the long straight really rewards cutting. The tire stack on the exit is one more accident waiting to happen as the fast line is to touch those tires slightly, setting them moving.
Problems: width, shape, cutting, autoX objects near the racing line.

The 2nd/3rd corners of KY3R. Another a bit strange set of corners where you can gain time by cutting the corner over full width of car.
Problems: cutting, shape, green pavement

Example of a chicane that just works. The AS5 turn 3, the 2nd of the slowest corners on that config. No rewards for cutting, slow enough and enjoyably challening on reverse config.

Always too fast and always too wide. And always the shape allows one quite straight line through. Make the corners slower, the road narrower or changing the shape to a kink or slow corner or anything else could make these a lot more interesting and fun to drive.

I want to see a Surfers Paradise or Adelaide-style chicane. Road course and added kerbs basically :-)

Quote from Trekkerfahrer :

normally you would have no suspension anymore

yes you would, you can take it flat out in virtually any car, its really not a chicane at all, merely a tweak of the steering wheel and pray
i find it much more fun trying to go around that corner without touching the kerbs, on a warm up lap say, than going through there flat out.

My further opinion is that some of the chicanes get changed and some stay the same i mean Of fe gold You got to love that chicane dont change it please....

But The Kyoto chicane that needs to change man that is not a chicane that is a Rambam S bend..... and IMo the worst corner in the game since veryone cuts it heavaly .
What we need is that thing changed so peopel need to stamp on the brakes avoid lock ups and go with the cars line it takes.

And that chicane on aston club needs to be changed into soemhing more chalenging than little lift of and FLOOR it

+ 1

Babe Seriously good idea though, no point having a chicane you can do flat out, it may aswell be a straight otherwise.

Quote from amb :

no Point Having A Chicane You Can Do Flat Out, It May Aswell Be A Straight Otherwise.

Q F T

Quote from Dajmin :

Q F T

Why does that quote seem strange

and what does QFT stand for?

Quote from AMB :

Why does that quote seem strange

and what does QFT stand for?

I have no idea, but it looks like some anti-caps code is working in reverse there. Everything that started with an uppercase letter is completely lowercase (including your name), and everything that was lowercase starts with an uppercase letter.

"Quoted for truth"

Totally agree
+1

+1000!

Absolutely +1.

I don't race very often, but when I do, the cutting on chicanes is always ridiculous. The orginal Gran Turismo Special Stage 11 had a proper chicane in it, and I always crashed in the wall because of it

There's nothing really wrong at all with any chicane in LFS, and some people also seem to think that esses is the same as a chicane. The problem in LFS seems to be the stupid way many people drive the tracks, not the tracks themselves. Furthermore, if you race with decent people there is no cutting at all going on. Just because people choose to drive it like an arcade game doesn't mean the chicanes necessarily need redesigning. What would be more realistic and more beneficial to the sim is if there was more of a negative effect from cutting, and certainly no advantage to be gained from doing so. In real racing they have marshals and stewards to penalise for bad behaviour. Run-off areas and places where it is possible to go off track with no disadvantage are not only common nowadays, they're become more prevalent due to safety concerns. So if realism is the goal we would see even more places where it is possible to cut a corner or chicane.

Cutting isn't occurring due to poor track design, it's occurring due to poor people design.
If people are just worried about cutting, a more relevant discussion would include questions and ideas about how a race sim might handle and deal with illegal racing without making unrealistic tracks or imposing silly penalties on innocent victims of a shunt or accident.

For those who think that LFS chicanes are not realistic, I'm certain that if you visit or drive on enough of the world's race tracks (especially club tracks) you will discover that LFS chicanes are not strange at all. Real world examples can be found, including chicanes that range from very extreme to very minimalistic in terms of their ability to slow down cars, in terms of the risk factor involved in taking the chicane fast, and in terms of overtaking opportunities created (if that was even the purpose for the inclusion of a chicane in the first place).

There are a miriad of difficulties in handling penalties fairly in a racing sim and no sim to date has ever got it quite right (without real-time human intervention) and I'm not even sure it is possible in LFS either, but I'd hate to see a reactionary redesign of LFS tracks just because people can't race properly.

2c

Im not going in a way about racing properly but if you take first chicane fe gold, you can look every high level leaque and all drivers just cut it in a sertain way there is no one who doesnt even toutch the curbs, same with first chicane fe green, because in big leaques you need to be fast and the fastest way threw this chicane is over the curbs / little gras at fe3 one. Even in a hotlap its the fastest way even hlvc. Offcourse people dont need to see esses as chicanes but the main reason for this thread was ky3 chicane where you go off the oval, because if think that the drivers how cut it are not realy drivers on a certain level, you get down about all leaques becaus it was done everywhere. Same with as3 last chicane you need to cut it perfect to be fast and dont mean cutting with 4 wheels offcourse but 2 wheels on the gravel but thats not the goal of the chicane right? and maby i said that wrong and do you guys think that i mean going 4 wheel of track with cutting but i dont, i just mean 2 wheels on the gras or gravel

Even thought I voted Agree. I don't think the problem is the tracks. I think the problem is the cars. In real life, there are reasons why people don't cut chicanes. Whether it be wreaking suspension, or ripping off a bumper.

But until LFS perfects damage and physics, certain compromises have to be taken in order to regulate the cutting of tracks. That would be why I think LFS's chicanes should be a lot sharper UNTIL lfs gets a better damage model.

Quote from Gunn :

blah

so you're saying, if in real life, there was this corner that you had to cut, and everyone knew it was stupid to, but to win, you had to, that you wouldn't do it? that's just stupid.
it's got nothing to do with the people of lfs, there are some people who drive just to drive, there are some who race to win. the people that race to win, will bend the rules untill they snap, to win. this includes cutting. the chicanes in lfs for cutting, is like shoving a big mudcake infront of a fat kids face. ofcourse you're going to cut them, since most of them are taken flat out.
the point of this thread is that the chicanes should be made more proper, so people actually have to brake and slow down for them. then we would also get less damage, because you'd take them at a slower speed, unlike the flat out ones that are in lfs now. that's what they are for in real life anyway, to slow the track down.

2c

Quote from [DUcK] :

blah

No what he is saying is that the general design of tracks in LFS is ok but people choosing to drive those tracks like an arcade game (knowing there are no penalties for cutting) is what the problem is. I agree with Gunn

In addition I think we will eventually see better automated penalty systems and/or better suspension/tyre damage modelling which will sort this out.

Also another factor is that the whole track envionment is too clinical, at some future point we hopefully will get dynamic track environments were people will not be able to drive so close to the limit lap after lap without more mishaps.

Without these things redesigning chicanes want change anything that dramatically imo

Quote from Glenn67 :

blah

yeah that's my point. it's not "arcade" like, because people will cut in real life, if there's an option. i know that i cut a lot, and sometimes i bend steering arms and etc, but that's not really the point, the point of this thread is that chicanes need to be made to prevent cutting; achieved by making us have to go a lot slower through them (by braking obviously..).
it'd be more fun too imo, and provide more variety to the tracks

yup. what annoys me is that in the XRR i cannot cut the last chicane at Aston National to save my life. ive tried reducing the anti roll bar and springs. the car just spins around in mid air like a pebble skimming on water whereas other people seem to just glide over them. i can get a 1:43:19 but no further due to this corner.

The only chicane I really hate is the one at the top of the hill at Fern Bay nera the 'beach'. In single file, you can take it almost flat-out but if you happen to approach it two abreast, then it's impossible to get both cars through without slowing right down.

same with most 'chicanes' in lfs, cos you don't have to brake cos you can cut them, but as soon as the corner becomes somewhat a tighter radius you have to, contrary to if it was already a tight corner

@Gunn's blah text:
there always has to be someone playing smart ass, well here you go:
:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea

sorry had to

Quote from [DUcK] :

same with most 'chicanes' in lfs, cos you don't have to brake cos you can cut them, but as soon as the corner becomes somewhat a tighter radius you have to, contrary to if it was already a tight corner

Exactly

There's a massive difference between 'having to brake compared to having to brake a bit more' and 'not having to brake at all compared to having to brake'

...if that makes any sense at all. Sometimes I wish writing could have parentheses like mathematics...

Quote from [DUcK] :

so you're saying, if in real life, there was this corner that you had to cut, and everyone knew it was stupid to, but to win, you had to, that you wouldn't do it? that's just stupid.

No, it isn't stupid to refuse to make an illegal move that would get you disqualified or penalised in real racing.

Quote from N I K I :

@Gunn's blah text:
there always has to be someone playing smart ass, well here you go:
:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea:bananadea

sorry had to

Not sure what point you are trying to make here.

Quote from Gunn :

No, it isn't stupid to refuse to make an illegal move that would get you disqualified or penalised in real racing.

So your basicly saying its our own problem and that we just need to drive around the curbs in the chicanes? common check replays from all big leaques everybody flies over the curbs.....
Its like duck said for the win you need to so everybody does... to avoid situations like this a change / update to the chicanes would be a good solution.