We know that the F1 engine develop was stop after 2006 season, but what will FIA do if there are new car manufacturers join now?

Let them design their own engine -- all engine on track now is designed in 2006, if FIA allow the new team design a new engine, the design may have a superiority of the gap in this 2 years.

If FIA don't allow that, I don't think that a car manufacturers teams will use another manufacturers's engine....

Quote from scania :

We know that the F1 engine develop was stop after 2006 season, but what will FIA do if there are new car manufacturers join now?

Let them design their own engine -- all engine on track now is designed in 2006, if FIA allow the new team design a new engine, the design may have a superiority of the gap in this 2 years.

If FIA don't allow that, I don't think that a car manufacturers teams will use another manufacturers's engine....

Good point, if any new manufactuer comes in it will undoubtfully be VAG.

Quote from Mustafur :

Good point, if any new manufactuer comes in it will undoubtfully be VAG.

But most likely not Audi branch. VW maybe.

I've heard Cosworth still sells FIA approved 2006-spec engines. But I'm sure if there was a new manufacturer, they wouldn't want to use other engines than their own, so I think this engine freeze basicly means doors are closed for new manufacturers.

The chances of a manufacturer coming in and producing a better engine than is already available straight off the bat is fairly unlikely though. It would take two or three years hard development to make it equal, but that wouldn't be allowed under the stupid homologation rules.

Maybe...OPEL?

Quote from deggis :

But most likely not Audi branch. VW maybe.

Bugatti? Lamborghini? Would just sound cooler Also, Lambo will be taken more seriously if they actually compete with Ferrari in F1. For Bugatti, it would be a return to the days when the name actually mattered (which seems to be VAG's plan for the brand anyway, hence the outrageous Veyron)

I believe Prodrive may be joining F1 next year. They were going to take part this year.

Quote from Ahriman4891 :

Bugatti? Lamborghini? Would just sound cooler Also, Lambo will be taken more seriously if they actually compete with Ferrari in F1. For Bugatti, it would be a return to the days when the name actually mattered (which seems to be VAG's plan for the brand anyway, hence the outrageous Veyron)

The Veyron was actually nothing else but a proof of concept - a 1000 bhp 400 kph car. It costs them 5 million € to make one while they sell them at 1 million € a piece - not exactly profitable. They could throw it under the Lamborghini marque but it is doing very well lately, with the Gallardo, Murcielago and nov the Reventon. So it's better to put a dead marque on it to wake up the memories and that's it. I doubt there will be many more cars to come. But maybe there will. There were words of a LMP style Veyron but i kinda doubt it. If it's coming, it would just be a road special. It wouldn't race as that would be stupid - in house competition against Audi. SO for that part i'd say it's more probable it would be a Lambo if not even something totaly 3rd (Audi or VW?). Would make wins agains Ferrari worth a lot more.

Quote from DTrott :

I believe Prodrive may be joining F1 next year. They were going to take part this year.

They said they will be joining in 2006 if not even for 2005. Are they here now? No. But i hope they come, more competition is always healthy and Prodrive, in my oppinion, is a very big name in racing. Maybe not the most known out there but whoever knows at least a tiny bit about racing must be aware of them. Maybe Prodrive would put the Aston Martin marque on the F1 car since they own it (with the help of some arabic sheikhs)

Quote from DTrott :

I believe Prodrive may be joining F1 next year. They were going to take part this year.

Prodrive should be a engine "buyer", I'm talking about engine maker.

Why should prodrive be an engine buyer???? FYI, they manage (and make) the DBR9 cars and the Subaru WRC Imprezas (Subaru World Rally Team). I think they have all the needed engineering knowledge in house to make an F1 engine and the car itself too!

Quote from Primoz :

Why should prodrive be an engine buyer???? FYI, they manage (and make) the DBR9 cars and the Subaru WRC Imprezas (Subaru World Rally Team). I think they have all the needed engineering knowledge in house to make an F1 engine and the car itself too!

they were going to buy mclaren customer cars, which no doubt would have some sort of deal with merc to get the engines also.

Don't forget ProDrive had a large hand in the BAR Honda team for a few years IIRC.

Quote from Primoz :

It wouldn't race as that would be stupid - in house competition against Audi.

Already happening in ALMS.

Doors were already at least once closed infront of Prodrive because of the "no customer cars" rule. Actually I honestly wish they never go F1, so instead they can go on to build Aston Martin LMP.

Porsche vs. Audi? That's different, different classes that just end up way too close on the track. The Spyder was made to be sold - waasn't meant to be ran as a factory car. It's the opposite with the R10 TDIs. That's Porsches philosophy - make racecars that can be sold to customers and make money from that. I doubt we'll see a LMP1 anytime soon from Porsche.

Quote from Primoz :

Porsche vs. Audi? That's different, different classes that just end up way too close on the track.

Irrelevant when on the track there's practically only one class.

Quote :

The Spyder was made to be sold - waasn't meant to be ran as a factory car. It's the opposite with the R10 TDIs. That's Porsches philosophy - make racecars that can be sold to customers and make money from that. I doubt we'll see a LMP1 anytime soon from Porsche.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=730547#post730547

I know that I doubt it too, but that's just one theory.

Quote from Primoz :

Porsche vs. Audi? That's different, different classes that just end up way too close on the track. The Spyder was made to be sold - waasn't meant to be ran as a factory car. It's the opposite with the R10 TDIs. That's Porsches philosophy - make racecars that can be sold to customers and make money from that. I doubt we'll see a LMP1 anytime soon from Porsche.

I had watch ALMS
Why LMP2 Spyder can faster than LMP1 R10...

Quote from Neblaivas :

Maybe...OPEL?

I'm guessing that was a joke! When I think high performance and cutting edge technology the last thing I think of is Opel (Vauxhall).

I'm guessing that anyone coming in would want to use a customer engine such as Cosworth, because they wouldn't be able to develop their own engines to a standard that would be competitive. It would be a cheaper option too, leaving them money to develop their own chassis. I don't see any big car manufacturers joining F1 either, all the ones you would expect to be in F1 are already there.

Quote from scania :

I had watch ALMS
Why LMP2 Spyder can faster than LMP1 R10...

Firstly America has still tracks that are demanding and narrow and not like these European "wide as an airfield" Tilkedromes. Road Atlanta, Sebring etc. On narrow and slower tracks LMP2 cars are more nimble despite the power difference. Second thing is that IMSA (governing body of ALMS) has not applied ACO's weight rules. P2 cars are in theory 50 kg too light. Third thing is that RS Spyder is just damn good car. In Barcelona week ago the VM Motorsport RS Spyder was still faster than half of the private P1 entries.

ps. Getting kinda offtopic though...

Talk about F1 Engine again
I don't think freeze the engine develop 10 years is a good idea.
There will be many things in 10 years, maybe DiesOtto is very common, maybe camless engine is use in all car, maybe diesle was replace Gasoline, maybe engine will eliminate 10 years later.

Quote from scania :

I don't think freeze the engine develop 10 years is a good idea.

A good idea would be F1 firmly deciding what it wants to be -- an all-out manufacturers' competition or a "we have to cut costs, we have to make stupid rules to ensure closer racing" series. In the first case, most of today's regulations would have to go straight down the toilet. E.g. no reason to enforce 2.4 L V8's. Enforce min. mass, max. car dimensions, safety, emissions and energy recuperation systems -- so that advancements in F1 can trickle down to real cars. Aside from that, let them run wild -- active suspensions, exotic materials, unorthodox engines (e.g. rotaries), CVT, active aero to make overtaking easy. This would mean death of customer teams though. Williams would have to find a new manufacturer to unite with, the rest can go to hell.

If it's the second (which is almost the case anyway) they should STFU about being the ultimate form of motorsport.

EDIT:
actually, about the new manufacturer--I just realized that Nissan is the only major Japanese manufacturer not represented in an international racing series.

Wasn't that engine freeze cut by 5 years? New engines in 2013? Never know about FIA tho.

FIA's plan to cut costs seem to really work in future: can't develop ECU, can't develope tyres, can't develope engine... and soon can't develope aerodynamics. Next year "KERS" is introduced but looks like that's gonna be just a hitech push-to-pass system.

Quote from Ahriman4891 :

A good idea would be F1 firmly deciding what it wants to be -- an all-out manufacturers' competition or a "we have to cut costs, we have to make stupid rules to ensure closer racing" series. In the first case, most of today's regulations would have to go straight down the toilet. E.g. no reason to enforce 2.4 L V8's. Enforce min. mass, max. car dimensions, safety, emissions and energy recuperation systems -- so that advancements in F1 can trickle down to real cars. Aside from that, let them run wild -- active suspensions, exotic materials, unorthodox engines (e.g. rotaries), CVT, active aero to make overtaking easy. This would mean death of customer teams though. Williams would have to find a new manufacturer to unite with, the rest can go to hell.

If it's the second (which is almost the case anyway) they should STFU about being the ultimate form of motorsport.

EDIT:
actually, about the new manufacturer--I just realized that Nissan is the only major Japanese manufacturer not represented in an international racing series.

I think there are no problem of NISSAN, because it is under Renault.

There are many ways to cut cost, we can limt the engine speed lower, we can set the engine & car weight higher, but engine is the main parts to burn fuel.

I think the option that makes most sense would be that one brand out of the WV group would start up on F1, even buying (partially or totally) a current team (sadly, Williams seems to be a candidate, if they are unable to achieve some interesting results this season) or starting their own, maybe even cooperating with a team that already was there to start with a fan-base to attract sponsors (Minardi, Brabham, Tyrrell... They 'just' need to buy the rights).

Potential alternatives would be the PSA group (Peugeot-Citroën) or some kind of Korean/asiatic brand with lots of money to spare, that if there's no northern-american group (GM?) that does try to get into F1 because of the kind of unstable moment (or that's the looks of it from here) of the 'big' open wheelers on USA.

So in any account, there are potential demand of teams to enter F1, just it's a silly attempt with current rule set and limitations, which I agree with some fellow forum users, are just a misfired shot towards nowhere. FIA should get their act together and claim F1 as either 'top-tech, top-notch' series or 'equalized' closed-tech series, but knowing where it's going towards, it's not like I'd get amused by their choice.

Just my two cents, be free to differ :]

Well, let's think of this logically. Which manufacturers would want to join F1?

Toyota - Already in.
GM - Given the situation in America, no.
Ford - See GM.
Volkswagen AG - Do a lot of motorsport already. ALMS, touring cars, DTM. Common theme with those is that they can sell customer cars (but don't for the first). They aren't averse the the concept, and them joining is possible but I wouldn't put money on it.
Honda - in.
PSA - Could do it, although they have motorsport commitments already.
Nissan - Not going to go in whilst stablemates Renault are there.
Chrysler - See GM.
Renault - in.
Hyundai - Interestingly, they said they wanted to join. Who knows?
Fiat - in.
Suzuki - I can't see them considering it, sorry.
Daimler AG (aka Mercedes) - in as engine suppliers
Mazda - See Ford.
Kia - If Hyundai/Kia were to go in, it would be as the former.
BMW - In
Mitsubishi - Could they? They have the know-how, but they wouldn't be able to use their four wheel drive nous.
AvtoVAZ - Comedy value? Although, given that someone wants to race a pair of Ladas in the WTCC, stranger things have happened!
Subaru - Unlikely.
Tata - It sounds like it is comedy value, BUT. Tata is a very large company (doing more than just making cars) in India (as well as world wide), which is going to get a GP. Top that off with their recent aquisition of Land Rover, Jaguar, Daimler, Lanchester and Rover. Let's not forget that FI is in existance, as well.

Daimler AG (aka Mercedes) - in as engine suppliers

Just that? Matter of time when McLaren officially becomes Mercedes.