I was talking with a friend on MSN about the recent drop in numbers, and he made the point that as LFS caters to many areas, drifting, cruising, dragging, it shouldn't just be called a racing sim, instead it should be called a driving sim, as most of the top servers (CTRA excepted) aren't racing, they're cruising.

Just my random, caffeinated thoughts

/me puts on flamesuit too

DK

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

I was talking with mcgas001 on MSN about the recent drop in numbers, and he made the point that as LFS caters to many areas, drifting, cruising, dragging, it shouldn't just be called a racing sim, instead it should be called a driving sim, as most of the top servers (CTRA excepted) aren't racing, they're cruising.

Just my random, caffeinated thoughts

/me puts on flamesuit too

DK

What's the problem? Scavier wanted to make the best car-simulation ever seen and they are still working on their dream. If people want this sim to be used for drifting, cruising etc. etc. they should do so. Other people want to use this sim for racing activities and they are fully entiteled to do so. One thing doesn't bite the other and Scavier is still working on the best sim ever made (so far) and when everything is done, it will be the best sim ever made. If you don't like drifting, cruising etc. don't go to these servers and find yourself some racingservers to play on. Everyday I see plenty of them with mostly good clean racing. If you think there aren't enough good servers, host one yourself or start/join a team to get good racing.

Last time i speak to Fang on msn

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

I was talking with a friend on MSN

HA! Your mysterious friend's identity has been irrevocably revealed despite the pixelized filter over his face and the pitch shifted audio.

Quote from Yisc[NL] :

Quote from DieSnitchrabe :

I was talking with mcgas001

Lmao he edited it

It was him I was talking to...on his MSN

/me hides the briefcase full of money

How can it have 4 replies but 0 views? O.o

Ok...on topic:

Agreed, Yisc[NL], if you don't like it, ignore it/pretend it doesn't exist/don't vist that server. Simple as. I don't get the fanboy-ism and hostility to drifters/cruisers. LFS is a simulation, that much is established, BUT it isn't JUST a pure race sim. If it was that, then why is there a drift option in the race types on LFSW? And why did Scawen implement a cruise filter in what the majority of the forum fanatically believes is a 'pure race sim (and <insert deity here> help anyone who doesn't use it/think it is)'?

DK

EDIT: Yisc[NL], I wasn't on about the lack of servers, or players, I was merely on about 'is LFS a pure race sim any more?'

Tolerating the by-products of a realistic vehicle dynamics simulation doesn't mean the focus of your product changes.

or, to make it look dafter: unrealistic vehicle dynamics would mean no Sumo?

i agree with Fang/DieKolKrabe

it really isnt a racing sim anymore..
with all the tweaks that there are and other things

but if lfs is going to be a REAL racing sim
i think that lots of people arent going to play lfs anymore..

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

It was him I was talking to...on his MSN

/me hides the briefcase full of money

How can it have 4 replies but 0 views? O.o

Ok...on topic:

Agreed, Yisc[NL], if you don't like it, ignore it/pretend it doesn't exist/don't vist that server. Simple as. I don't get the fanboy-ism and hostility to drifters/cruisers. LFS is a simulation, that much is established, BUT it isn't JUST a pure race sim. If it was that, then why is there a drift option in the race types on LFSW? And why did Scawen implement a cruise filter in what the majority of the forum fanatically believes is a 'pure race sim (and <insert deity here> help anyone who doesn't use it/think it is)'?

DK

EDIT: Yisc[NL], I wasn't on about the lack of servers, or players, I was merely on about 'is LFS a pure race sim any more?'

But was it supposed to be a race sim? I don't know. As far as I can recall (I'm not that long on LFS) it always has been a driving sim and everyone gives another interpretation to it. As long as people are around on this world, things are invented and used in all sorts of ways (even the ones the developer never thought of). Just let people use it the way they want to and pickout the servers/races you personally like

No. And I'll say it again - no.

Firstly, if you advertise it as a "driving simulator" you'll get even more cruisers than we already have. And the people who come on to cruise are the same people who will then end up complaining that there's no free-roaming option.
Also, you'll get people who want to learn to drive, then leaving disappointed because it doesn't really work. It might in the future with the right kit, but it doesn't.

LFS is designed for racing. That's why it has "race" tracks. That's why it has "race" cars. The fact that people have decided to mod it to allow different things is merely an example of how good and how diverse the current software is. It's also a decent example of how creative the current playerbase is.

If you ask me there's a couple of reasons the playerbase is declining. Or at least failing to incline noticably.
First thing is the graphics. Personally I have no problem with them, but if you compare it to other games claiming to be sims (Forza 2, GT5) about to come out, it's not great. With the mods and stuff it can look great, but that isn't default and the kind of person who'll do it isn't the type of player this thread is talking about.

Secondly is real content. If it wasn't a big deal we wouldn't have so many threads about it. I couldn't give a crap about them, but people do. I'll never know what it's like to drive an Enzo round Laguna Seca so an accurate sim seems a little pointless, but apparently there's plenty of people who want to do it.

Thirdly is the number of rival products there are now. Back in 2000 there weren't that many "sims" around. Certainly not a great selection of tintop sims. GTL came along and got it's base, and NASCAR 2k3 was a bit later. Over the years more and more coem out and cater for different kinds of people. You lose the people from my second point immediately to stuff like RACE or GTL. In terms of core "simulation" they're lacking against LFS, but in terms of graphics and real stuff they will win. Names sell stuff, it's a well-known fact.

So this is where I think it's a good thing.
The more people who leave to chase after real-life content that feels fake, the more dedicated hardcore fans LFS has with it's real-feeling fake content. Personally I don't care whether the tarmac I'm on is in Aston or Silverstone - it's grey and I'm throwing the car around at 120mph. How much chance do you get to notice the scenery?

Nobody can force anyone to stay. And I don't think LFS would be the same if it had a mainstream following. It's much more like a personal club race than an international F1GP and I like it this way.

Who cares if it's Pure or not?, it's still the shiznit

If people want to drive on cruise servers, let them, dont give a damn about other people.

Racername: Fang
Online at: [TC] CityDriving Montana <-- you cruise, i dont have a problem with that, others shouldnt either

I can't see how people wanting to drift and cruise would negatively effect players numbers. If anything it would increase them, as long as it remains actively controlled and people don't try and drift in races and crash everyone out!

As someone else says, ability to drift is a by product of realistic physics. That doesn't mean the game is not a real race-sim. It actually means it's more real ergo more "pure".

As is blatantly obvious in the other thread, drifting is not my thing at all. But I don't begrudge anyone who wants to do it in LFS, as long as it's kept well separate from the racing.

As for cruising. Well IMO equally as pointless in a racing sim, but if people want to do it and it's not hurting me then why on earth not? All the power to them.

Summary is I don't think either thing effects LFS in a negative way.

My point was ment to be a private one between me and fang but.... :doh:


:hide:

Quote :

First thing is the graphics. Personally I have no problem with them, but if you compare it to other games claiming to be sims (Forza 2, GT5) about to come out, it's not great. With the mods and stuff it can look great, but that isn't default and the kind of person who'll do it isn't the type of player this thread is talking about.

I will just add my 2c. and say that firstly, apart from the car interiors that desperately need updating and variety, I quite like the graphics. And secondly, anyone that's going to leave a game like LFS because of the graphics - which aren't even bad - is not the type of person who is going to dedicate much time to a hardcore racing simulation in the long run anyway!

Quote from mcgas001 :

My point was ment to be a private one between me and fang but....

Then you send PMs or email, not post in a public forum

Quote from Ikaponthus :

I will just add my 2c. and say that firstly, apart from the car interiors that desperately need updating and variety, I quite like the graphics. And secondly, anyone that's going to leave a game like LFS because of the graphics - which aren't even bad - is not the type of person who is going to dedicate much time to a hardcore racing simulation in the long run anyway!

I agree 100%. But we have plenty of them that come onto these forums and ask for NFS features anyway. Losing them makes the numbers decline, but I don't see that as a bad thing.

Quote from Dajmin :

Then you send PMs or email, not post in a public forum

I didnt, Check who made this thread

well i dont really care about all these drifter or cruiser or whatever.
as long as people keep buying the game thus keep funding the LFS devs to keep developing the game than i am happy.


but to be honest, we need Real Life tracks and cars to attract more people to this sim. i know everyone will start saying blah blah blah the devs dont have enough money for the license fees and stuff but this is true. Many people are thinking well how can you call this the best racing simulator if it doesnt even have real cars and tracks

I think real cars and tracks are not so important.

LFS simulates the physics of auto-racing astonishingly well. To me it doesn't matter much if the physical statistics of the actual vehicle in the game are identical to one that exists in the real world or not.

Same goes for tracks.

well i think a racing sim is a driving sim with some extra stuff added to it: multiplay, ai, weather conditions, training courses...ect...

so yes, i guess DieKolkrabe is right, LFS is getting misused but as a DRIVING sim, it is still one, and always will be one

Quote from Ikaponthus :

.... And secondly, anyone that's going to leave a game like LFS because of the graphics - which aren't even bad -

Well, that's very much a relative statement. Let's just have a think about who the most likely target audience for LFS is. Is it real motoring enthusiasts? or Gamers?

It's highly unlikely to appeal to real motoring enthusiasts for one simple reason. Anyone that owns a car and enjoys driving is just going to go and do the real thing rather than sitting at their computer playing a sim. Yes I know there are some amongst the LFS community but as far as I can see it's obvious the vast majority are Gamers.

Now if you're a gamer looking for a driving game in general then I'm sorry to say but LFS graphics look very dated. LFS needs to look good to attract gamers in general and by and large the gaming community is very picky about it's graphics quality, and unfortunately in comparison with the latest games out there LFS just doesn't stack up. Like it or not but many gamers, (even ones interested in driving games), want high quality graphics.

Quote :

is not the type of person who is going to dedicate much time to a hardcore racing simulation in the long run anyway!

That's a bit of a generalisation. Most gamers are very dedicated to gaming, they spend hours and hours honing their gaming skills, (even too the point of having no life because of it). There's simply no reason to believe that any gamer that is interested in a driving game will not put effort in to get good at it.

It's probably a good thing that 'games' won't like LFS because of the 'poor' graphics (I haven't seen a better looking sim though), otherwise drifting, cruising and other moronic types of play will finally take over for good.

LFS will be it's healthiest when it's down right inaccessable to those who use numbers instead of letters or entire words.

LFS is a racing sim. The fact that some people have chosen to use it for a different purpose is all well and good so long as they can accept the fact that the Devs will not compromise the development of the product to allow these sideshows to carry on.

not pure racing at all.... like 90ppl full 3 servers of cruise, and other 50 on drift servers... 140 ppl that would be worthable racers