If stupidity was a disease America would be quarantined 
Here in canada, they even have dummy labels on new vehicles that tell you these things. "Press brake to shift from park" or "Clutch must be applied to start engine" (we call them dummy labels because anyone with common sense should know this already)
Personaly, I think they are there for people that haven't driven cars before, like new drivers. But alot of them are retarded because you can't remove them, like the park sticker on my Express 3500, It's behind the clear plastic cover for the gauges, I'd have to take apart the dash to remove it, on top of that, its painted on.
I think there should be an overide on them, like on some automatics, you either press a button, or put the key in a slot, and it alows you to shift out of park. They should have a switch that overides the clutch switch, alowing you to operate the starter when ever you want.
It would have to reset after a short time though, because idiots would hit it and leave it on.
Personaly, I think they are there for people that haven't driven cars before, like new drivers. But alot of them are retarded because you can't remove them, like the park sticker on my Express 3500, It's behind the clear plastic cover for the gauges, I'd have to take apart the dash to remove it, on top of that, its painted on.
I think there should be an overide on them, like on some automatics, you either press a button, or put the key in a slot, and it alows you to shift out of park. They should have a switch that overides the clutch switch, alowing you to operate the starter when ever you want.
It would have to reset after a short time though, because idiots would hit it and leave it on.
My '94 4Runner has a button to disable this system and allow it to be started without pressing the clutch. It resets after the ignition is turned off. Rarely usefull at best.
Yeah, but modern automatic transmissions are electronically controlled, so if the battery is dead then you're stuck in park. The only reason that automatics lock the gear selector is so that you don't accidentally knock it into neutral while you're parked. BTW, for future reference, there is no "gear shifter" on an automatic. It's called a "gear selector" because you aren't shifting with it, you're selecting the gear that you wish to be in.
I could be wrong but I would be surprised to learn that the pin/tooth that engages the output shaft for park was not still actuated by linkage to the shifter (I'm calling it a shifter still - if It's good enough for the Toyota FSM it's good enough for me =) ) - certainly on older electronic transmissions like AODE, E4OD, A241E(Toyota) some valving and the park mechanism are still handled by shifter linkage. On a 2008 Honda? I have no idea.
Funny story, i was in parking lot in a car and this lady couldnt seem to get her car started. She tried everything, turning the ignition every which way and to no avail. My friend stepped in and about 2 seconds later it was started.
Fricking lady didnt have her foot on the brake.
(2005 scion)It's still called the gear shift on most of the manuals I've read.
And gear selector would apply to manuals to, because you arn't actualy shifting gears around, you are selecting them by shifting rings around.
But that's not the point. Electronic or not, if the battery is out of power it won't make a difference, you can still shift to nutral.
It's possible on some cars you can't, but that would be a stupid move on any automakers part. None of the car's I've ever worked on had to be boosted before being moved. The battery is bad, we take it out, put the car in nutral. Push it into the shop and then we work from there. on most cars electronic just means that the shift points arn't done the old way, instead they use a computer to control it.
Even the tiptronic ones I've worked on had a shift linkage going to the transmission.
We had one car, a Benz I belive, that was parked outside the shop for a day. the battery was fried, and something else was wrong. But we where still able to put it in nutral and push it into the shop. My bosses reason for not boosting it was simple, he didn't want to.
And gear selector would apply to manuals to, because you arn't actualy shifting gears around, you are selecting them by shifting rings around.
But that's not the point. Electronic or not, if the battery is out of power it won't make a difference, you can still shift to nutral.
It's possible on some cars you can't, but that would be a stupid move on any automakers part. None of the car's I've ever worked on had to be boosted before being moved. The battery is bad, we take it out, put the car in nutral. Push it into the shop and then we work from there. on most cars electronic just means that the shift points arn't done the old way, instead they use a computer to control it.
Even the tiptronic ones I've worked on had a shift linkage going to the transmission.
We had one car, a Benz I belive, that was parked outside the shop for a day. the battery was fried, and something else was wrong. But we where still able to put it in nutral and push it into the shop. My bosses reason for not boosting it was simple, he didn't want to.
Here in Québec, Canada... it's not been done yet but they want to put a law for every cars to have an alcohol meter so you have to prove your car you're not drunk to be able to start it!
This would keep you from pushing your car to the pits with the starter motor, so +1
This is a great amazing idea... and its one of the few things that should be common sense that I *would* support.. Although look at that idiot blowing into the steering wheel....
How the hell are you supposed to get your car home from the bar?! :bananadea
This can be done in almost all real-life race cars, so why should it be disallowed in LFS?
For the record, I've never even heard of this feature, and, as has already been said, it looks to be nothing more than manufacturer arse-covering against lawsuits from the United States only - as no other country has such an obsession with making money out of their own mistakes.
Even then, though, I must admit I can't see the point of this system at all. If you turn over the starter motor without the clutch in, the engine is almost guaranteed to stall - if it starts at all - whatever road car you're in. Especially if the throttle pedal's been left alone. I can't think of a single car that could cope with such an action. If you were on a steep downhill incline, then it's possible that the engine could fire properly, but you'd already be rolling since you had the clutch pedal in... And if you'd put the brakes on, you wouldn't have needed the system to stop yourself moving.
Can anyone shed any light on this at all? :rolleyes:
Sam
Bear in mind a lot of US cars had stupid large engines to overcome the fact most drivers had so few skills they needed lazy engines to help them. And a small block Chevy will quite happily fire up whilst pulling a car along on the starter motor. Their starter motors are more powerful than most VTECKII engines over here! 
Assign a designated blower!
A blower? One like this?
Well, electronic really means that the clutches are engaged by solenoids opening and closing, therefore allowing the hydraulic fluid to engage the clutches. As opposed to the old kind of mechanically-shifted automatics which had a weird system of pistons. Where the faster the car went, the more the governor valve opens, therefore letting more fluid through. And then the pressure would push the shift valve open which would engage a gear-set. And if you are using more throttle, then the shift will be delayed because the throttle is applying pressure to this valve in the opposite direction as the fluid flowing in. Basically, a three-speed transmission such as the GM TH350, would have two of these valves. One for the 1-2 shift and another for shifting from 2-3. And in a later GM 4-speed (I forget the name) the 4th gear was basically just 3rd gear overdrive.
Any real car would soon suffer a flat battery, especially racing cars which have much smaller batteries than road cars. Even more so single seaters that have small batteries and no alternator will soon be flat after multiple starts.
And multiple = a small number! Maybe 10 without assistance and short cranking periods with a semi-warm (i.e. free, but not hot) engine. It won't get you back to the pits, unless you are about 5m from the pits.
I had, of course, forgotten that we were talking about massive, torquey V8s with batteries bigger than a UPS. Maybe it serves some purpose, then. 
I said it could be done, theoretically, not that it was advisable or practical
I do recall a Panoz being laboured back to the pits on the starter motor during the 24 Heures du Mans, though, so it's not entirely unheard of. How the car actually coped with that, I've no idea, nor do I know how close it was to the pits when the driver resorted to the starter-motor, but since we have no battery simulation in LFS, I guess it's good that the stalling physics seem to disallow this technique now anyway.
Actually, I haven't really tested it at length, but it's certainly a hell of a lot harder to do than it used to be
I said it could be done, theoretically, not that it was advisable or practical
I do recall a Panoz being laboured back to the pits on the starter motor during the 24 Heures du Mans, though, so it's not entirely unheard of. How the car actually coped with that, I've no idea, nor do I know how close it was to the pits when the driver resorted to the starter-motor, but since we have no battery simulation in LFS, I guess it's good that the stalling physics seem to disallow this technique now anyway.
Actually, I haven't really tested it at length, but it's certainly a hell of a lot harder to do than it used to be
I can say without a doubt that a 5.0L Ford Mustang, 5.7L Ford Bronco, 3.0L Toyota 4Runner (With Clutch Start Cancel Switch pressed) will fire right up in 1st gear on flat ground.
yes, you would stall if you try to move the car with the starter motor, why would you NOT have a mechanism that prevents you from doing that?(although it's redundant) it would save your car's engine's lifespan if you are learning manual. and there is already a mechanism on the lfs cars, it's called inertia, it stops your car and your engine when you start without the clutch depressed
My '90 4Runner has that same button, but doesn't reset when you start the car, it will stay enabled.
Most of the time, the 'neutral safety switch' is mounted on the clutch pedal. For instance, mine was a plunger and contact switch at the top of the pedal under the dash. After 15 years, it finally gave out and wouldn't let me start the car. Honestly, it's a good feature, even for people outside of the US.
Pulling the wires out of the plug and connecting them will disable the feature (consult your wiring diagrams to make sure that the switch is not hot and causing a drain on the battery). By the way, I feel victim to starting in gear in the pits at Watkins Glen. I felt like an idiot amongst a bunch of Bimmer drivers.
Pulling the wires out of the plug and connecting them will disable the feature (consult your wiring diagrams to make sure that the switch is not hot and causing a drain on the battery). By the way, I feel victim to starting in gear in the pits at Watkins Glen. I felt like an idiot amongst a bunch of Bimmer drivers.
WTF! How does a button requiring you to press the clutch save 'the engine's lifespan'? Can you refrain from posting about semi-technical stuff until you've finished kindergarten?
he's just reinforcing the fact that us americans have soup in our heads.
The alcohol thing is real, court ordered, and YOU have to pay for it. 600 a month.
i say if you can't drive a manual, get the hell out of the drivers seat and let someone who knows what they're doing take the wheel.
The alcohol thing is real, court ordered, and YOU have to pay for it. 600 a month.
i say if you can't drive a manual, get the hell out of the drivers seat and let someone who knows what they're doing take the wheel.
Clutch Starter Safety Switch ;)
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