Before people jump on me and start spouting stats etc. I have been active in the LFS community for MANY years now, this is just an observation of my experience whenever I look for a server with people on it within sensible ping range.

I have to admit the number of active LFSer down under is starting to get thin on the ground, even on nights that normally pulled in more people. A year ago and there were many active people around. Not EU levels but big enough to race and small enough to spot regular faces etc.

I think it relates to the fact that S2 is now so old and no new content has really come through the pipe since. Yes I know how LFS dev works before I get shouted down on that.

My feeling is that this decline is NOT something that fixed AI and minor tweaks are going to resolve. This is only something new content will turn around.

I assume the Alpha tag is here to stay until the S3 feature set is complete and that S3 is due soon. If not and S2 has to go through Alpha, Beta and RC stages before S3 then I get the feeling this will start to impact the user base down here a huge amount. I find myself driving less and less because its harder to find a good race.

I hope the devs break their silence soon and outline the path a little more. It is time for new tracks/cars to stop the decline.

Just my 2 cents. I know I will get a few flames on this but felt time was right to voice it.

Makes sense to me Woz. Just because we know how LFS works, it doesn't mean there aren't questions to be asked. I think the thing that annoys people is when these questions are asked in a disrespectful or ignorant manner, or are phrased as demands.
I'm coming into my fifth year of playing this game and I'd like a hint of LFS' future directions just as much as you.

Im with you on this.

I have been playing the demo pretty long time before buying the S2. And I have noticed that the game needs something new, something fresh to be more appealing to the long line players.

New tracks & cars would be awesome but it's only dreaming now without any hint from the devs I guess. My personal hopes rely on the December

Everything has cycles it's leading up to xmas (some working more) and alot have just finished all thier exams (so have been studying more, and now will be partying more)

Plenty of aussies around anyway, it's just that they are all on drift servers

LFS is a niche game and Australia just doesn't have the poplulation other regions have so we will always struggle with numbers I guess I suggest we all get out there and spam other aussie car/game related forums about LFS

I've said it before and I will probably say it many more times... Tracks, tracks and tracks... The cars we have in Live for Speed are great. Sure they could use a touch up, but basically, they are great and fill most of our racing needs. Perhaps a Prototype to further complete the field, but that's not high on my list.

But tracks... If there is no risk of ruining physics by creating a track, I say let the modders in. People may say what they want but tracks will always be the key to variation. Eric does superb tracks. Some of the best I've raced on. But good as they are, they do not replace Spa, Monza, Nürburgring, Laguna Seca, Mosport etc.

I would love to see some real tracks put into LFS by Eric or any third party modder. Heck, let the modder do the track and then let Eric verify it for quality before it's released.

Quote from X-Ter :

Tracks, tracks and tracks... The cars we have in Live for Speed are great.

I second that

And also fix the stupid collision bug which is making some cars flying miles away for any little touch.

I think with more tracks and no flying cars it would be much better

Quote from X-Ter :

Heck, let the modder do the track and then let Eric verify it for quality before it's released.

The problem with that is that when some modder creates a Brands Hatch or a Nurburgring, that's public domain.. as soon as LFS breathes on it with regards any kind of "sanctioning" or approval of any kind, it begins to get legally pretty awful. To sanction a real track in LFS would be to acknowledge it as a tangible commodity.. enter the licencing lawyers

An alternative would be a community-driven "sanctioning body".. but there would have to be a clear and definitive separation between LFS and the track makers, and the community that use them.

I'm postulating only.. the idea of being able to add tracks is appealing. It's just that the whole topic is a can of worms waiting for a can opener, in the form of a real track where the licencing/property owner perceives a potential loss of income or return. The devs would have to be very careful about how they were to proceed. I don't see it happening too soon, if indeed at all.

It's not necessarily a matter of real life tracks that's missing.
Any kind of additional variety is sorely needed.

the tracks could be based on real tracks just like the cars are "based" on real cars. They would have to be different enough so that LFS couldn't be sued, but near enough. Also they would have to be made by eric. I strongly disapprove of third parties doing any modding of LFS. Imo modding has brought down the overall quality of every game that has allowed it. Besides, if people get so mad at drifters and cruisers, they would be really pissed at the third party tracks, because the tracks would be ridiculous.

Didnt really want this to fall into a modding pro/con.

TBH. I like LFS because of LFS World. I know when I have got faster in car X on track Y etc.

For me any modding track has to fit into LFS World but that means NO real world tracks for the normal legal reasons. It also means tracks have to go through strict controls and not suffer the rTractor fate of the track changing all the time to patch etc.

Hence S3. Controlled content that fits with LFS World etc. LFS works because its EASY to play online, something NOT true with rT.

There are many in the aussie community that agree with you Woz, in fact we've just been discussing it recently on the ARSE forum here
http://arse.norbtech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=136286#136286

The community is still strong but we just don't race LFS like we used to. During S1 days I would race for a couple hours every night after work but now there just aren't the numbers. Early S2 days were great, the AAL had nearly 80 racers for the first few comps but the numbers have slowly dwindled to now where there might be 20-30 each race.

The devs will do what they do which is their prerogative but the aussie community is in danger of dying a slow death at the moment and desperately needs something to re-ignite some interest again.

I agree with most of whats been said here... I kind of like and dislike the third party / modding part of this conv.
If ppl start modding then the quality of the game will go down.. BUT, the LFS devs are only three ppl.. They work amazingly hard.. but they are only three ppl.

The other thing I would like to see is the devs giving us more information on the future. Right now the community is in the dark.. We know a x-mas patch is planned with an AI upgrade... but what else.
Even if the devs released new stuff at the same rate, but we know what they are working on, I think it will bring quite a few ppl back to LFS.

Well that was an interesting way of starting yet ANOTHER "need new content" thread. Seriously, what was wrong with posting in that other one on the exact same subject?

Nice try with the "player numbers down under" title.

Quote from Damo74 :

Well that was an interesting way of starting yet ANOTHER "need new content" thread. Seriously, what was wrong with posting in that other one on the exact same subject?

Nice try with the "player numbers down under" title.

Those threads are obviously because something bad is happening, people are lefting LFS because the boring. This bad feeling is all around and much of us are sad watching it.

Quote from Matt0snap :

We know a x-mas patch is planned with an AI upgrade... but what else.

Do we?

I haven't read anywhere that the patch is confirmed to come out on christmas.

First off, deadlines, they are not made for a reason, the reason, the devs can work at their own pace if something comes up in they're personal lives, or just stumble accross an issue that slows progress. Secondly, in my humble oppinion, modded of third party tracks would take just as long as making a patch or upgrading to a new stage.

Quote from samH :

An alternative would be a community-driven "sanctioning body".. but there would have to be a clear and definitive separation between LFS and the track makers, and the community that use them.

The process of the "sanctioning body" could and most likely would take months to assimilate a conclusion on a track (given the size of the "body"). With this, if allowed, the devs might just decide to just add the said track in the next patc, wich in turn everyone would be waiting for the next patch.. then the next..... and so on. This on going process of wating, would just creat so many complaints inbetween each patch, the forum would be flooded.

However this is my pesimistic view, I actually would think it would turn intresting to get new ("....original.....") tracks. User ot third patry made "RL" tracks would be just a big complaining hassle.

My two cents/rant.

.....Sam I think I might have toped your essay on this thread.

Quote from Hankstar :

Just because we know how LFS works, it doesn't mean there aren't questions to be asked. I think the thing that annoys people is when these questions are asked in a disrespectful or ignorant manner, or are phrased as demands.

I think Scawen's probably giving the forum a miss because A) he's busy and B) he feels like sidestepping the always bizarrely over-the-top debates that erupt whenever a new gameplay change is announced or implemented. This way he's atleast under the radar and not having to deal with forum negatives all the time. Of course, I don't really know the real reason for the dev silence at present but that's my thought.

other random quotes...

Quote :

I like LFS because of LFS World. I know when I have got faster in car X on track Y etc.

Yeah- I feel the same. And re: modding- I've been really getting back into LFS lately and I've come to appreciate the way that we have this limited amount of tracks that concentrates peoples efforts in a much smaller area. I was thinking the other day- if modding were opened up, and we suddenly had 100/200 new tracks (totally hypothetical) it would disperse all the talent in LFS and there would be all these mediocre WR's all over the place. LFS World works so well because it's so easy to see who's good at what and where, and where you stand amongst it all. It makes the WR's really vital because most people have atleast had a crack at a certain combo, so if you're the best in any one area you've really earnt it. imo.

Quote :

The community is still strong but we just don't race LFS like we used to.

Add one more Aussie online come this Jan

Quote from Electrik Kar :

I was thinking the other day- if modding were opened up, and we suddenly had 100/200 new tracks (totally hypothetical) it would disperse all the talent in LFS and there would be all these mediocre WR's all over the place.

There's a problem with that becouse LFSW (or LFS in general) could NOT support tracks from community. Devs can't be involved in any way with that stuff.

I belive that the main reason why we aren't allowed to create tracks is:
We get for free physics updates and with tracks from modders, why the hell would anyone buy S3?

Quote from Damo74 :

Well that was an interesting way of starting yet ANOTHER "need new content" thread. Seriously, what was wrong with posting in that other one on the exact same subject?

Nice try with the "player numbers down under" title.

sigh

The title and thread were pointing out the noticable decline in player numbers in this area of the world. This observation is backup up by others in the area so at least I know what I spotted is right and it has beeen confirmed. That made the thread worthwhile IMHO.

I said at the start there would be some that tried to flame me. Congratulations!

If you actually read the forums you will notice that more and more of the "old hands" are starting to feel the same and drive less and less. None of us are the normal group that post this sort of comment so the fact it is coming up more highlights something.

I think new content(mainly tracks, there´s good variety in cars) is important to older players to keep them interested. There´s plenty of tracks and variety when you´ve just started playing LFS but after a while it does get old and repetative. So adding some new fictional content wouldn´t really help sell that much more new licenses but it would be a really really really good thing for those who´ve been around for years.

But lets think what´s more important to the devs... pleasing the oldtimers whose money they´ve already got or attracting new players whose money they haven´t got yet? They´re businessmen after all. They develop LFS for a living not for charity.

I still jump on for a couple of races most nights. League racing keeps me interested, as do combos I find that I haven't driven much, or just want to be more competitive on. I'm probably lucky in a way; it takes many hundreds of laps before I master a combo... hehe :cyclops:

There's definitely less Aussies lately, though. A lot of the old hands have gone, and as you say, unless we get a really substantial update (tracks + a car or 2.... or weather), I doubt most of them would bother to 're-learn' the game all over again.

I find myself as entertained as ever with LFS, but i definetly agree that for the sake of the old timers we need some new content. All i really want is the DP1, and a new track.

I agree. I'm sure the Devs are busy, but I'd really love a new track .

I'd just like to get my legally liscenced game to unlock.
Then there would be at least one more Aussie racer.
A retired real life racer, been stuck in demo mode with no internet connection (Installed the game from a magazine CD) for years.

Finally got ADSL, got my liscence paid for, my game can't find the master server to unlock.

Nothing shits me.

Try this :

open the file cfg.txt (located in your main LFS folder)
find the line that says "Master Port 29339" and change that number to 8080. Then try to unlock again.