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I seriously have no idea how rFactor can be considered to have a better physics engine. I actually TRIED driving it. But the cars don't respond at all like I'd expect them to. Just trying to do a quick jerk of the wheel to avoid some crap on the track, the cars respond so slow it's weird. Everything feels heavy.

And to answer to everyone going "omfg LFS needs more content", you know, I think you haven't grasped what racing is about. Racing is about getting faster and faster, and being faster than the people you are racing against. I'd be happy with XFG and XRG, as the racing with excellent drivers is always so much fun.

I'd need only one track, and one car to drive, and it still would be interesting. because racing is only about beating your own limits. Even in RL, racing is about knowing your car, not trashing it, and being a slick driver. You don't ask for more tracks or more content, you just ask to drive shit as fast as possible down whatever track is thrown at you. if I had access to only one circuit, I'd still be there every weekend to burn some rubber.

Quote from Nard :

I seriously have no idea how rFactor can be considered to have a better physics engine. I actually TRIED driving it. But the cars don't respond at all like I'd expect them to. Just trying to do a quick jerk of the wheel to avoid some crap on the track, the cars respond so slow it's weird. Everything feels heavy.

And to answer to everyone going "omfg LFS needs more content", you know, I think you haven't grasped what racing is about. Racing is about getting faster and faster, and being faster than the people you are racing against. I'd be happy with XFG and XRG, as the racing with excellent drivers is always so much fun.

I'd need only one track, and one car to drive, and it still would be interesting. because racing is only about beating your own limits. Even in RL, racing is about knowing your car, not trashing it, and being a slick driver. You don't ask for more tracks or more content, you just ask to drive shit as fast as possible down whatever track is thrown at you. if I had access to only one circuit, I'd still be there every weekend to burn some rubber.

Right on! exactly as i said it, some time ago..

LFS also will change itself while the time is going on. so do not worry about this so much.

No, LFS is not getting old. It isn't even finished yet (as some have said before).

But... Allthough there are those who claim third party content aren't needed, I must disagree. Just about every sim and game that has been successfull and lived long and prosper, has done so, thanks to the mods.
SCGT would never have been what it is without the modders. Same goes for GPL, NR2003, Nascar Heat and... Well the list is long.

I can understand why our beloved developers don't want to release the secrets of making stuff for this sim yet, but I also think that they should consider it. Simply because mods are what keeps a game or a sim going. It's what makes an old game feel new (or at least newer).

Let us at least have the possibility to make tracks. A new track to explore in the GTR's would be great. I would absolutely love to blast around Spa in the XRR with my favourite Lister Storm paint on it.

For those who worry about quality, well that's easy really. This community is full of respect for the developers. If they say "No, it's not good enough", then I'm sure the modder who made the track will try to do a better work before releasing it to the public.

I actually think this is a good idea that should be considered. If not now, at least very soon.

I guess it depends how you look at it, you can keep gene pool small and pure (small dev team no outside code) which so far has shown to be working well, some would argue the pace of development is something for concern (i dont)

Or you could have a large gene pool with alot of diveristy and many ways of acheiving the same thing,for my money at this stage it should stay as is.

But i hope its fully moddable one day..

As more things are plugged into lfs programing wise, the work increases exponentialy, so do the problems of debugging. So at this rate, with scawen trying to keep a steady pace, the spacing between releases will be exponentially greater. Expect s3 by 2009-2010 (not kidding).

In conclusion, yes, it is going to get old, and it somewhat has gotten old. I really like lfs, i've been using it since the first demo came out, i do feel its gotten old

No for me a game never gets old...

Fps gamers having fun playing CS 1.6…

As for the competition of race simulators/games is just in terms of fancy grafics and new cars…

Quote from Nard :

I seriously have no idea how rFactor can be considered to have a better physics engine. I actually TRIED driving it. But the cars don't respond at all like I'd expect them to. Just trying to do a quick jerk of the wheel to avoid some crap on the track, the cars respond so slow it's weird. Everything feels heavy.

And to answer to everyone going "omfg LFS needs more content", you know, I think you haven't grasped what racing is about. Racing is about getting faster and faster, and being faster than the people you are racing against. I'd be happy with XFG and XRG, as the racing with excellent drivers is always so much fun.

I'd need only one track, and one car to drive, and it still would be interesting. because racing is only about beating your own limits. Even in RL, racing is about knowing your car, not trashing it, and being a slick driver. You don't ask for more tracks or more content, you just ask to drive shit as fast as possible down whatever track is thrown at you. if I had access to only one circuit, I'd still be there every weekend to burn some rubber.

racing cars are heavy arent they?!

yer its fun, but i think its nice to be able to have a selection of cars from real life and fanstasy to drive. dont you think? im not questioning qwhat racing is about, just whjat i love to race with.

dont get me wrong i love lfs, but i dunno lol

oh yer, the problem with the delays steerring is, u have to change the settings of the wheel in game. once done its great.

Quote from kieran20 :

racing cars are heavy arent they?!

I'm quite certain they are purposefully engineered to be as light as possible...

Quote from kieran20 :

oh yer, the problem with the delays steerring is, u have to change the settings of the wheel in game. once done its great.

No it is not, if you feel it is ok and you have dfp then you must be not so fast as there is really lot longer delay than in LFS no matter how do you adjust. Only when fps stay above 60 it is bareable, over 100fps and it starts to be near LFS level, but get under 40fps and your wheel is completely disconnected from car.
That is how it works in rFactor

rFactor has sure nice eyecandy and vehicles that resemble real cars in mods, but LFS cars do feel more real to drive when compared to most mod cars. But if realistic feel and immersion comes from real looking car graphics for you then of course rFactor is far better, it is not just not important to me how something looks.

Racing cars are heavy if you try to lift one up by yourself but when compared to road cars they are light, so are they light or heavy?

Please, guys, don't make this a LFS vs. rFactor thread!

Quote from Blaeza :

Since lfs, I can't play any other sim, it kills them all!

Isn't that the damed truth. I use to think some of the the other Sims were good, then I found this little gem, since then the only other title I can say is on or above par with LFS is RBR for its off Tarmak stuff, RBR has Tarmak issues.

I do think that some other titles do have a few features then feel better then the same features in LFS. The most notable is nKPro. They way the Clutch and Gearbox's are modeled feels much closer to my real car. When I mis a shift in nK I cringe just like I do IRL. I also like the way I can feel the road through the steering wheel in nK, there is a texture to it and its that small tactile and audible feedback that makes those features stand out.

Those are the two major areas I think where LFS is feeling old. The way the tires and suspension are modeled in LFS I feel is up to the task of running on the raw polygons. I think its time they up the mesh dencety a little and turn off the vertex smoothing for the road surface in LFS physics. I am tired of driving on a buttery smooth road.

My only other complaint is the lack of a 50/50 Front engine RWD in the same relitieve power and weight class as the XFR. That is the only other car I am waiting to see in LFS.

Quote from Gimpster :

Those are the two major areas I think where LFS is feeling old. The way the tires and suspension are modeled in LFS I feel is up to the task of running on the raw polygons. I think its time they up the mesh dencety a little and turn off the vertex smoothing for the road surface in LFS physics. I am tired of driving on a buttery smooth road.

Excellent point and/or idea Gimpster!

Hell no.. we've done the rF vs LFS thing to death. We don't need that again.

Is LFS getting old? To answer that for myself, I have to define what LFS means to me.

For me, it's a multiplayer environment with fantastic framerates and immersive graphics. By immersive I don't mean completely convincing. I mean sufficiently convincing. By that, I mean that the graphics are not distracting.

I mean that I can disappear into LFS for hour after hour, using a thing they call (in media circles) the willing suspension of disbelief. WSD is what you get when you become involved in a good film. You forget that the characters aren't real - you get to know them, and you believe in them. You forget that the story has been written. You forget that behind the thing you're watching is a multi-billion dollar industry. You just get sucked in to what you're seeing.. you become immersed. When you're at that point, that's when you're looking at a damn fine work of art.

So this is what LFS is, to me. It isn't just a computer program, it's an environment. It's a place where things happen, much more than it is a program that I run. It's a passage to an online world, where I drive cars that I can believe in, against opponents I have faith in.

And to answer the question, is it getting old? For me, it's as old as the last race I had. It's as old as the last battle for 3rd, or the last retirement due to an accident. It's as old as the last time I ran out of fuel and got pushed home by a team-mate. It's only as old as those things, because of what LFS is to me.

Dam H, Well said.

There are a few little things that some times bring me out of the WSD but for the most part is far easier to get in to that mode in LFS then in almost any other SIM.

To quote some old person whom I've forgotten:

"LFS will never get old, only its players"

Which is my true opinion upon LFS, and it will never get old, thats how I can justify spending several hundred dollars on equipment for LFS and totally demolishing my desk, buying 2 monitors, keyboards, like 4 wheels for LFS. Theres many other different reasons that people like LFS too, one of the big pulls is that we can do ****ing whatever, like we can Drift, Race, Drag, Do Bangers, Park around and chat, create movies, and a crapload of other things. In LFS its as Sam said, its not really just a racing sim, its an environment to just do what we like, the CLC is another prime example.

If youre gonna think about it,

Yes LFS is getting old (been around since 2002 i think) but its from keeping the game updated and adding new things that keeps it the best online racing game (my opinion)

Having to say though Toca 3 online is also good but that cant be updated, if LFS gets updated soon (eg new track and car not sounds and aero effects blah blah blah) i think this can always stay popular

(lol just think if it stays around in 30 years )

Quote from James Montgomery :

if LFS gets updated soon (eg new track and car not sounds and aero effects blah blah blah) i think this can always stay popular

I would prefer sounds and aero first, since i haven't tried 15, 20% of all of the ~800 combos..

I too would put quality over quantity... That said, new content sure is appreciated...

To topic: Yes, LfS like all things gets older... But it's more like the aging of a good wine to me...

In my opinion, it's hard to define what would or would not make LFS old. I mean, we all agree that some of it's elements are a bit old (graphics, for example), but some elements are still the best there is.

For that reason, we just can't say that LFS is "old". It's not even finished. However, if some other guys decide to make something better and they put 50 person on it, LFS will probably get old quite quickly...

I think GT5 it's coming in half 2008, perhaps the only problem it's the time. I don't have fear, i think LFS can survive for years. The most important is the physics and that is the point of LFS. (Sorry for my bad english).

Quote from Mike85 :

At the end its not even the phyisics that are most important. The best part is the online racing experience and we can simulate things to a certain degree then it becomes harder to simulate it any better, so the real priority should be to simulate as much different aspects of racing as posible. So its quantity of simulated stuff not so much as quality (but offcourse it should be quality to a certain point). Does that make sense? LOL

Why stop seeking perfection !?

The physics is everything

Quote from Mike85 :

At the end its not even the phyisics that are most important. The best part is the online racing experience and we can simulate things to a certain degree then it becomes harder to simulate it any better, so the real priority should be to simulate as much different aspects of racing as posible. So its quantity of simulated stuff not so much as quality (but offcourse it should be quality to a certain point). Does that make sense? LOL

It's true that LFS (or any other sim) won't have a 100% perfect/complete/accurate physics model (the processing power needed alone would be way too high anyway), but LFS definitely has not reached it's full potential yet. It's by no means bad, quite the contrary, but it's still missing some elements we definitely need and I have no doubt Scawen will be able to pull it of.
So unless we have reached the point where it can't be improved because of for instance technological limitations physics remain the most important aspect.
For sure the online experience is very important as well, but LFS is doing really well in that department anyway.

Quote from Racer Y :

Hmmm... going back to chess and poker... Do you think a video game title will ever reach the status of those two?

Counter-strike anyone? Jesus Christ. Millions upon millions of dollars come from that game each year.

But, to LFS. The fact of the matter is as everyone has said: LFS can be incomplete, lacking a lot as I feel it might be now, and is still far beyond anything that ANY company has ever put out. It's not some bull shit hyped up arcadey sim. Three guys pour their guts into it and aren't satisfied with sub-par results, unlike anything that could even claim to be their competitor. There are few games you can play consistently and remain challenged. LFS is one of them. Hell, I don't even drive all of the cars. I typically find one, create or download a setup that makes the far feel good and drive the shit out of it until I finally decide that I'm still the slowest guy on the track. Then I switch cars and undoubtedly find out the exact same result with that car. Until I run out of cars (Which will, as the pace goes now, be in about three years) LFS will not be old to me.

Start drifting (AH! HE SAID DRIFTING!). There are so many people that do nothing but it and are, frankly, amazing at it. It's a challenge to even remotely compete with them going around the track.


Hell, bust out the AU_Autocross and start making layouts of tracks that you, and other people will enjoy. There is a vast amount of satisfaction you can gain from the simplest of things within LFS. It's just up to you to find, and enjoy them.