Quote from Woz :

What is at issue here is that cars, apart from highly modified drift cars, do NOT have more than 36deg lock and even 36deg of lock is far more than you will find on many cars.

Yes, Scawen did say that and to this date nobody has found a car with more than that lock because the lock has not been increased again. This should say something.

My point was that it's pretty absurd to say "45 degrees is not realistic and you can't find it in production cars" when at the same time you can do all kinds of extreme settings for the XRT. I dare you to find me a production car which has the same modifiability as the XRT, stock.

Quote :

Why do you find it sooooooooooo hard to drift without 45deg lock. The last time I watched the "Drift Bible" I don't remember anything about the need for 45deg lock. The only thing you really need to mod is your suspension to allow better control over weight distribution and car balance as most road cars are setup to understeer.

Don't put words into my mouth. Exactly where did I say its "sooooooooooo hard to drift without 45deg lock"? In the last ~10 months since I purchased LFS, I've clocked 38 943 km of which about 95% on drift servers. I'm just trying to get a little change made which would make drifting even more interesting. After watching Drift Bible, I suggest you watch an actual D1 GP competition.

Quote :

You dont even need bags of power because drifiting is not really about power either but about playing wwith the circle of grip on each tire and the balance of weight between them.

Again, I never asked for more power, just more steering lock. Sure, a drift doesn't necessarily need "bags of power" but if you want serious angle, smoke and speed, power and extreme settings are needed.

+1







But as we have seen before, it is hopeless to ask for more steering lock.

+1







But as we have seen before, it is hopeless to ask for more steering lock.

More lock would certainly help the drifters, but I don't think 45 is necessary really. When the steering was at 45 it was possible to attain angles that are more on par with what is possible with drift-spec competition cars IRL. Easier to hold the drift at a high angle and improved ability to counter-steer and therefore save the car from spinning. So the request for an increased range lock to lock does make sense - from a drifting perspective at least.

But doesnt more steering lock allow it to be easier to pull out a real steep drift?

if you cant get out a steep drift, then dont drift that deep.

i personally do not have a problem with the steering lock, its good enough trying to keep withing the boundrys of the current lock.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

While I'm here I suppose I may aswell post a sensible response.

Hahahahaha just kidding!

No, seriously:

*ahem*

I'd rather LFS included a special drifting car than give the XRT a silly steering range. We've got a specialist autocross buggy for some bizarre reason, so why not a specialist drift car?

Interesting idea, but the fact is that there are no "special" cars made just for drifting. They all began their lives as normal sports cars and were modified to have a "silly steering range" . Also, making a new car from scratch is A LOT more work than notching the degrees up to 45 (I'd imagine).

Quote from psdf :

Also, making a new car from scratch is A LOT more work than notching the degrees up to 45 (I'd imagine).

it could be done within a few secs
just take the xrt as its the most popular and the best suited for drifting change its turbo to a laggy 1.5 bar one add a little more base power and youll have a ~450hp drift monster
now all the devs would have to do is not change the xrts looks at all or only slightly and not call it xrd to keep the racers happy

Quote from Gunn :

More lock would certainly help the drifters, but I don't think 45 is necessary really. When the steering was at 45 it was possible to attain angles that are more on par with what is possible with drift-spec competition cars IRL. Easier to hold the drift at a high angle and improved ability to counter-steer and therefore save the car from spinning. So the request for an increased range lock to lock does make sense - from a drifting perspective at least.

Not to mention its adjustable ingame ...can't decide..but the XRT is perfect as is (in my point of view )

I don't drift, but I don't see what the huge deal is with increasing the steering lock. Sure it's not realistic on a production car, but how many production cars are available with a locked differential, or adjustable braking force, or changable gear ratios? These are all settings that would require parts changes, so would changing the steering lock, I don't see why it's an issue. Drifters are paying customers, too.

Quote from 96 GTS :

I don't drift, but I don't see what the huge deal is with increasing the steering lock. Sure it's not realistic on a production car, but how many production cars are available with a locked differential, or adjustable braking force, or changable gear ratios? These are all settings that would require parts changes, so would changing the steering lock, I don't see why it's an issue. Drifters are paying customers, too.

whut he said ^, 'cept i actually drift

Quote from Shotglass :

it could be done within a few secs
just take the xrt as its the most popular and the best suited for drifting change its turbo to a laggy 1.5 bar one add a little more base power and youll have a ~450hp drift monster

no not more lag lol

The 36 degree feels just fine.

It actually made a lot of us better drifters than before.

Angle? I am capable of pushing my XRT to the very limit, speed wise, angle wise, and all the while maintaining a smooth line.

Some of you just need to open your eyes more, real drifts? heh, in fact we're doing stuff more amazing than real life, how can you compare? LFS is still just a simulation/game, imitating the drifts like real life is easy, simply because we're not afraid of crashing. You don't see 'real drifts' in LFS, but you can see a whole lot better drifts than you could in real life.

Trust me, the 36 degree is just fine for us/you drifters out there, you just need more practise and some setup tweaking.

Quote from StanleyCarter :

The 36 degree feels just fine.

It actually made a lot of us better drifters than before.

Angle? I am capable of pushing my XRT to the very limit, speed wise, angle wise, and all the while maintaining a smooth line.

Some of you just need to open your eyes more, real drifts? heh, in fact we're doing stuff more amazing than real life, how can you compare? LFS is still just a simulation/game, imitating the drifts like real life is easy, simply because we're not afraid of crashing. You don't see 'real drifts' in LFS, but you can see a whole lot better drifts than you could in real life.

Trust me, the 36 degree is just fine for us/you drifters out there, you just need more practise and some setup tweaking.

Good points. The lack of excess steering angle force one to master weight shifting, a skill essential both to drifters AND serious racers (especially in off-road and rally races).

Sigh. Yet people fail to see why we are asking for more steering lock. No one has said that there would be an absolute need for more, because there isn't. When people ask for more steering lock, it is just to make the current drifting even more extreme, more show oriented. Not to mention, even make the game interesting again for a little while to some of us.

I really can't see any reason what-so-ever why we couldn't be allowed to have more lock. If you think you are fine now with the currently allowed steering angles and you don't think you would profit for additional lock then don't bloody set it to more than 36 degrees! No one is forcing you to use the additional lock that some drifters are asking, no one. If you want more challenge at drifting, then be my guest and go ahead, stick with the 36 degrees but don't go saying that 45 degrees of lock has no use. This is one of the small things I have personally wanted LFS to have for long time now, and knowing that it is nothing more but a few clicks and couple keystrokes in the source code, it infuriates me.

The claim that more than 36 degrees of lock would be unrealistic with our car lineup isn't really a valid excuse either. As many people above me have said, what kind of a stock car has the amount of setting adjustments that we have now? I doubt you people seriously believe that having more than 36 degrees of lock would be impossible in real world, but I'll just post couple pics and links for those who would doubt it is. 1 2

And let me just quote the latter: "The S13 will have between 40° and 45° of steering angle. The FC3S will only have 35° to 40° of steering angle. The Nissan has at least 5° of extra steering angle to use. Luckily, we can add that 5° of extra steering angle by shimming tie rods off the steering rack on the FC3S with spacers. The other, more time-consuming method to get more steering angle on an FC3S is to relocate the tie rod to hub connection point. This increases steering angle and steering response, as it changes the steering ratio significantly. We're getting up to 50° and more steering angle with this mod!"

And so comes the conclusion. What is true the reason we aren't allowed to have realistic (+45) steering angles? Yes, your "realistic" 36 degrees is in fact unrealistic if you consider that we can have more lock in real life with very little mods. You don't want more steering lock to spoil your challenge? Then don't use it. Also seeing that racers are saying "-1" for this suggestion is pretty hillarious. This is something that wouldn't affect them in any way and yet, because they obviously despise us who enjoy drifting in our beloved sim, they must disagree with us.

I had a serious deja vu while writing this. Not too long ago we had a similar discussion in the "mountain tracks/touge" suggestion thread, and it got shot down with exactly the same false excuses and arguments I see posted here. Ah crap, why did I even waste my time writing this post.

Quote from Matrixi :

Sigh. Yet people fail to see why we are asking for more steering lock. No one has said that there would be an absolute need for more, because there isn't. When people ask for more steering lock, it is just to make the current drifting even more extreme, more show oriented. Not to mention, even make the game interesting again for a little while to some of us.

I really can't see any reason what-so-ever why we couldn't be allowed to have more lock. If you think you are fine now with the currently allowed steering angles and you don't think you would profit for additional lock then don't bloody set it to more than 36 degrees! No one is forcing you to use the additional lock that some drifters are asking, no one. If you want more challenge at drifting, then be my guest and go ahead, stick with the 36 degrees but don't go saying that 45 degrees of lock has no use. This is one of the small things I have personally wanted LFS to have for long time now, and knowing that it is nothing more but a few clicks and couple keystrokes in the source code, it infuriates me.

The claim that more than 36 degrees of lock would be unrealistic with our car lineup isn't really a valid excuse either. As many people above me have said, what kind of a stock car has the amount of setting adjustments that we have now? I doubt you people seriously believe that having more than 36 degrees of lock would be impossible in real world, but I'll just post couple pics and links for those who would doubt it is. 1 2

And let me just quote the latter: "The S13 will have between 40° and 45° of steering angle. The FC3S will only have 35° to 40° of steering angle. The Nissan has at least 5° of extra steering angle to use. Luckily, we can add that 5° of extra steering angle by shimming tie rods off the steering rack on the FC3S with spacers. The other, more time-consuming method to get more steering angle on an FC3S is to relocate the tie rod to hub connection point. This increases steering angle and steering response, as it changes the steering ratio significantly. We're getting up to 50° and more steering angle with this mod!"

And so comes the conclusion. What is true the reason we aren't allowed to have realistic (+45) steering angles? Yes, your "realistic" 36 degrees is in fact unrealistic if you consider that we can have more lock in real life with very little mods. You don't want more steering lock to spoil your challenge? Then don't use it. Also seeing that racers are saying "-1" for this suggestion is pretty hillarious. This is something that wouldn't affect them in any way and yet, because they obviously despise us who enjoy drifting in our beloved sim, they must disagree with us.

I had a serious deja vu while writing this. Not too long ago we had a similar discussion in the "mountain tracks/touge" suggestion thread, and it got shot down with exactly the same false excuses and arguments I see posted here. Ah crap, why did I even waste my time writing this post.

Glad there's someone here who speaks so clearly and bluntly. Reminds me of that silly thread where I was told to shut up just because I disagree with something and actually bothering to care about the fact that the majority of LFS players do not have clurtch pedals. illepall I wonder if the concept of a paying customer still means anything these days.

And yes, to hell with silly pseudo real arguments from barring suggestions that'll make LFS BETTER for all paying licensees.

The obvious answer here is to increase the lock that way drifters can have 45 degrees and racers can turn it down to 36 degrees.

I personally race, but when it comes to firday night relaxing (for example) where i dont feel like the stress of pushing for that extra 10th of a second i drift. Even if the 45 degrees is added i would probably stick with 36 degrees anyway.

So a +/- 0 from me as i dont care, if its implemented id turn it down to 36 degrees, if its not then i cant use more than 36 degrees.

Quote from Jamexing :

Glad there's someone here who speaks so clearly and bluntly. Reminds me of that silly thread where I was told to shut up just because I disagree with something and actually bothering to care about the fact that the majority of LFS players do not have clurtch pedals. illepall I wonder if the concept of a paying customer still means anything these days.

And yes, to hell with silly pseudo real arguments from barring suggestions that'll make LFS BETTER for all paying licensees.

yup I do same as you.
racers put to 36 if they want.

Quote from Jamexing :

Reminds me of that silly thread where I was told to shut up just because I disagree with something and actually bothering to care about the fact that the majority of LFS players do not have clurtch pedals. illepall

Off topic but, you were told to shut up by one person, and not because you disagreed... Because you were just repeating the same thing over and over again, all the time ignoring the fact that we were discussing an option for servers, not something that would make the game unplayable for anybody.
And since when did anybody start to actually listen to Tristan anywayz?

I guess it is just the thing that it would mostly benefit the drifters. People on the LFS forum don't hesitate to shoot down any suggestions if they are not 100% racing related. Basically it means that drifting is looked down and laughed at all the time.

And after all it is quite ridiculous to say 36 degrees is enough because in real life cars don't have such amounts of steering lock. At the same time we can adjust our transmissions in 0.001 steps and have infinite amount of different springs/dampers/arbs in a "standard" car (XRG).

Matrixi said it right.

From previous discussions I've heard comments like "good/real drifters don't need more than 36 deg steering lock", and they were drifters (I got the impression). This sounds similar to requesting a tyres for drifting only.

-1 to the original suggestion.

+1







But as we have seen before, it is hopeless to ask for more steering lock.

Quote from Renku :

From previous discussions I've heard comments like "good/real drifters don't need more than 36 deg steering lock", and they were drifters (I got the impression). This sounds similar to requesting a tyres for drifting only.

-1 to the original suggestion.

I'm just curious, how would drifters having more steering angle bother you in your daily racing activities? The suggestion at hand is nothing similar to drifting tires, because drifting tires don't exist in this thing called real life. High steering lock angles however do exist.

People who go drifting in the weekends just for fun rarely have more than stock steering lock in their cars, but anyone who is serious about the sport and competes in it knows that added lock is the way to go.

I guess Hyperactive is correct tho. Anything that has the word "drift" involved in this forum gets shot, hung, burned, crucified and stoned at first sight. Guess why I stopped posting actively here?

Quote from TagForce :

Off topic but, you were told to shut up by one person, and not because you disagreed... Because you were just repeating the same thing over and over again, all the time ignoring the fact that we were discussing an option for servers, not something that would make the game unplayable for anybody.
And since when did anybody start to actually listen to Tristan anywayz?

Actually, I was trying to say that LFS isn't quite ready to support such a mode since the control interface (aka clutch behavior). Just that we have more important things to think about in LFS ATM. What really bugs me is that such options are easily abusable and doesn't really do LFS any good ATM.

Anyway, back on topic. Some RL OEM cars do have pretty extreme steering lock, though they're not the majority. I can't remember the exact specs, but Volvo 240s have amazing steering angles too. Makes it much easier to manouver in traffic than its size suggests.

all we need is special button to drift , then you can put 45 degrees , or 45 degrees, racers can put 36 or what ever they want..

No...

Because then It may be an advantage for racers who have 45 degrees...

So everyone takes 45 degrees, and then it's no sim... (that's not what I paid for)

as in: I did not pay for no sim...