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Quote from Hahmo :psstt.. I saw you cause a crash last night jack..

That's probably true

I just appear to have a massive pace and driving issue with iRacing at the minute. Either I'm a crap driver or LFS has taught me to drive "wrong". Last week there was MX-5 @ Okayama Short, which despite being a shit track was ok, and I was pretty competitive. Multiclass MX-5 @ Laguna Seca was again pretty good, Street Stock at US International was ok depending on the amount of n00bs and the Cadillac I'll come back to. But this week everything has gone really wrong. The MX-5's are at Lime Rock, which is a track I love but I'm woefully uncompetitive mainly because I'm so slow on the exits of corners, people are literally driving straight past me on the main straight. I've tried doing the last corner by shifting before, during and after, flat out, braking, lifting, hard turn in, shallow turn in, gradual turn in, and still people keep overtaking me Multiclass is at Okayama Long which is alright I suppose, and the stocks are at Charlotte, which is the most confusing thing ever. I swear I take the same line through T3 and 4 every lap but I always either exit the turn doing 139mph or 135mph, nothing inbetween. If it's 135 then I'm woefully slow for the whole next straight and I just can't understand why. Add in the fact that speedways are terrifying and there's just cars all over the place means I'm pretty much just letting people past at the moment

I think my road course issues come from the fact that I'm an aggressive driver and like a good front end on a car to throw into the corners, but this really doesn't seem to work on iRacing. Everything just seems to understeer constantly.

Starting with the fixed set Mazda, there's quite alot of understeer and as far as I can tell no real way of fixing it with oversteer, which isn't too bad but I was very surprised to discover that I think it's on slicks and not road tyres!? Because to me it feels like it's definitely NOT on slicks. Definitely becomes a big issue at Lime Rock because I really really can't get the nose turned into the faster corners like the even vaugely fast people do, I just understeer horribly wide, managed to get it sideways a bit a couple of times but then I lose too much speed due to sliding

The non-fixed MX-5 is really horrible to drive, at least with the set I have. The Laguna Seca set was ok, but my Okayama one understeers until you boot the power, and then it spins instantly I'm going to assume that's the setup rather than anything else, although I do find the MX-5 has an alarmingly high tendancy to go into major tank-slappers, which I swear a small-ish car shouldn't have enough inertia to do

Then there's the Solstice which I drove about 4 laps in before deciding it was rubbish. It is FWD right? I was going through T5 at Laguna Seca, had a bit of a slide on so hit the gas, which then INCREASED the yaw angle and I span Never again. And it has stupid gears.

My biggest gripe is with the SRF and most of all the Cadillac, which seem to do the same thing with regards to throttle. Now I have a background in physics and engineering so I know a bit about forces and torques and stuff (but by no means everything, particularly about diffs so please correct me if I'm wrong), but I swear the Caddy behaves very strangely off throttle. My main encounter of this is the final at Laguna Seca. I came into the corner completely neutral (no brake or throttle) and threw the car across the apex, and without applying the brake or throttle the rear came round on me and I span. Now I'm pretty sure that any car should be stable in the yaw sense (my background is planes :P) i.e. that a pure steering input (no throttle/brake) will only result in understeer (or a nice neutral response), not oversteer, particularly for a big heavy car like the Caddy. So how can the front tyres suddenly have so much more grip than the rears? Surely the inertia is going to be mostly at the front (heavy engine, no throttle) resulting in it not wanting to turn, rather than it over-turning? I'm assuming it's something to do with the diff, given that a little bit of throttle seems to cure it somewhat, if not producing vast quantities of understeer again. The SRF also seems to do this (either spin or understeer massively), plus for all cars spins are so not naturally corrected like they are in LFS, I've just now started slamming on the brakes whenever I get even a few degrees of sideslip on in order not to spin

EDIT: And also can someone tell me what good tyre temps are? My tyres were at 150F earlier and I've no idea whether that's hot, cold or indifferent :P (MX-5 btw)
Quote from J@tko :Then there's the Solstice which I drove about 4 laps in before deciding it was rubbish. It is FWD right? I was going through T5 at Laguna Seca, had a bit of a slide on so hit the gas, which then INCREASED the yaw angle and I span Never again. And it has stupid gears

Seriously it sucks more than Ellis' mum. It's like an FXO on crack
where's the fabled 2foot-thread again? Sounds liek an interesting read
Quote from J@tko :Seriously it sucks more than Ellis' mum. It's like an FXO on crack

As funny as I found this post, I believe the Solstice is in fact RWD, which also makes me laugh thinking about you rage-quitting after you slam the throttle thinking it's FWD and will straighten out, only for you to leave the track backwards in a cloud of smoke.
Quote from bbman :Hyper: So what? If the rear tyres are rolling they have more tractive capability than the sliding fronts in any case...

You are getting closer to what I'm trying to say.

Anyways my only point was to just add that the diff locking may play a small role if you try to create front washout by locking front wheels to prevent spin or to simply decrease yaw angle of the car. It may come to you as a surprise but I was talking about the front wheel washout (2feet in smash or whatever it is called) in general level and not specifically limited to iracing. I just added the virtualr link to the end of the post since it was recent and also had similar topic. I just thought it might be interesting tidbit and that's it really.
Quote from J@tko :Seriously it sucks more than Ellis' mum. It's like an FXO on crack

It's RWD and it's the best freakin car they have.
Quote from PMD9409 :It's RWD and it's the best freakin car they have.

That's saying something right there, innit?
Quote from PMD9409 :It's RWD and it's the best freakin car they have.

Pretty much correct. Just took it out on VIR Grand East (longest iR track), and it felt so damn awesome. Havnt driven it for the longest while.
Quote from PMD9409 :It's RWD and it's the best freakin car they have.

Is that because it still has the OTM ?
Quote from J@tko :That's probably true


Im also so slow at Limerock with MX-5 and I dont understand how to drive through the corners especially the last one.
If you want, you can try my setups. I will make some setup for Okayama soon. http://www.racesetups.com/downloads/127
Solstice has quite interesting behavior but gear ratio totally kills it.
The car which behaves like FWD is SRF.


I tried to do some nice drifts with MX-5 and its impossible. If I have a good angle, tires will get overheated or over-something and you spin - twice
Can anyone drift that car? I saw that in real is quite hard to drift with it too, but iR is wrong.
Quote :EDIT: And also can someone tell me what good tyre temps are? My tyres were at 150F earlier and I've no idea whether that's hot, cold or indifferent :P (MX-5 btw)

There's an option to change temperature readings to celcius. 150F converts to 65'C which is bit on the low side as most tires seem to operate best at 80-100'C range (175-210F). Also, if you're looking at the temperature readings in-garage, it might look like tires are ballooning because center appears much hotter. That is not actually the case, for some reason inner/outer temperature readings in garage screen also include the sidewall temperature, which brings the average temperature for that whole section way down. I'm not sure why it's like that because in telemetry file you don't have sidewall temperatures included in it and that makes it much easier to dial in the right amount of camber.

Quote from PMD9409 :It's RWD and it's the best freakin car they have.

Dallara feels really good with NTM, probably my favorite car right now. While it's not a car you can really drift around with, it doesn't instantly snap around if you get little bit rough.
Only real complaint I have is that fixed setups are bit of a mess, driveable but quite difficult to handle.
Quote from atledreier :That's saying something right there, innit?

Not entirely. They don't really use a unified system for all cars so that car in particular just feels great where the others are hit and miss.
Quote from jrd.racer :Pretty much correct. Just took it out on VIR Grand East (longest iR track), and it felt so damn awesome. Havnt driven it for the longest while.

Yes.
Quote from Bean0 :Is that because it still has the OTM ?

In a way yes. The OTM has more features to it even if the basics of it are wrong (tables). In the end I just plain feel the weight of the car more than any other car in the sim.
Quote from Crommi :Dallara feels really good with NTM, probably my favorite car right now. While it's not a car you can really drift around with, it doesn't instantly snap around if you get little bit rough.
Only real complaint I have is that fixed setups are bit of a mess, driveable but quite difficult to handle.

It actually felt quite nice when first running it at release. Sadly I don't have the time to set it up in order to do races with it.
Quote from bbman :And: Locked. wheels. Doesn't get more steady state than that. Throttle input couldn't possibly introduce any torque because the wheels ARE NOT MOVING. (Engine wouldn't to if we hadn't a mandated auto-clutch.) And yet iRacing's cars squat down. WRONG. PROVEN BY TELEMETRY. WILL BE FIXED.

Please read the torque (momentum of force) definition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque
TORQUE EQUALS TO FORCE TIMES LEVER ARM.

It doesnt matter if it is dirving force of the engine thru shaft and diff or braking force of the brakes. It creates force on the arm of wheels radius. Therefore creates reaction torque (as reaction force) on the car body. Opposite. Hence weight shift.
Tires when slipping create friction force - at the level of dynamic slip, therefore tires spinning and slipping at some circumstances can create similar forces resulting with opposite torques, followed by weight shifts and back-and-forth - with common settings switching to stable state of burnout.
You can get similar result in some cases of FWD - with slipping rears you floor it and spin fronts (shifting weight to rear, loosing grip with fronts and getting with rears), result is - car straightened.
With RWD you floor it on throttle and brakes, but it requires specific setting of very stiff and light front susp to avoid weight shift to front.

Those loops are in fact even more complicated in sims when forces are calculated as lateral and longitunal components, tires characteristics are known as lat and long polars (and they are quite different - in fact I dont know if there exist 2D real data of tires charactertics. Most models used in sims use two 1D characteristics), but the situation is always as resultant.
I really can't tell if you're intentionally being thick, but I assume you still haven't read a single post in the thread over at the iRacing forums... I will try one last time, after that you're on your own...

Locked wheels means torque has long since been applied. It also means it's the strongest force and cancels out any other coming from either road or driveshaft. The fact that it overpowered the tractive capabilities of the tyres also means it's quite constant. As I said, propulsion force would be immediately negated if you tried to apply it (and your engine would die), so the only reaction of the suspension could be to bumps and undulations in the track.

It can't shift weight to the back like it does in iRacing. That weird behaviour has also been linked to the effectiveness of heavily rear-biased brakes and subsequent throttle braking...
Quote from boothy :Then use Paypal? :rolleyes:

Is it possible to make PayPal account without credit card? and buy 1 month iRacing
Quote from .Scawen :Is it possible to make PayPal account without credit card? and buy 1 month iRacing

yes it is. just set the account up with your bank account instead
Quote from bbman :I really can't tell if you're intentionally being thick, but I assume you still haven't read a single post in the thread over at the iRacing forums... I will try one last time, after that you're on your own...

Locked wheels means torque has long since been applied. It also means it's the strongest force and cancels out any other coming from either road or driveshaft. The fact that it overpowered the tractive capabilities of the tyres also means it's quite constant. As I said, propulsion force would be immediately negated if you tried to apply it (and your engine would die), so the only reaction of the suspension could be to bumps and undulations in the track.

It can't shift weight to the back like it does in iRacing. That weird behaviour has also been linked to the effectiveness of heavily rear-biased brakes and subsequent throttle braking...

I don't know if you read my posts at all but after this post I'm done with you. Clearly you have taken me as some kind of troll or iracing fanboy when the only I've said was that the diff can play a small role in situation when you use throttle and brakes in such manners that your fronts become locked while your rears keep turning.
Quote from Gills4life :As funny as I found this post, I believe the Solstice is in fact RWD, which also makes me laugh thinking about you rage-quitting after you slam the throttle thinking it's FWD and will straighten out, only for you to leave the track backwards in a cloud of smoke.

Quote from PMD9409 :It's RWD and it's the best freakin car they have.



Oh dear. I'm sure I read somewhere (probably on the iRacing forum, which would explain alot) that it was FWD. I'll try it again later, but driving it like a RWD and see if that's any better

Quote from Klouczech :Im also so slow at Limerock with MX-5 and I dont understand how to drive through the corners especially the last one.
If you want, you can try my setups. I will make some setup for Okayama soon. http://www.racesetups.com/downloads/127
Solstice has quite interesting behavior but gear ratio totally kills it.
The car which behaves like FWD is SRF.


I tried to do some nice drifts with MX-5 and its impossible. If I have a good angle, tires will get overheated or over-something and you spin - twice
Can anyone drift that car? I saw that in real is quite hard to drift with it too, but iR is wrong.

Thanks. I'll have a try later And yes the SRF definitely sometimes behaves like a FWD car! Yeah I've never drifted the MX-5 with any success.

Quote from Crommi :There's an option to change temperature readings to celcius. 150F converts to 65'C which is bit on the low side as most tires seem to operate best at 80-100'C range (175-210F). Also, if you're looking at the temperature readings in-garage, it might look like tires are ballooning because center appears much hotter. That is not actually the case, for some reason inner/outer temperature readings in garage screen also include the sidewall temperature, which brings the average temperature for that whole section way down. I'm not sure why it's like that because in telemetry file you don't have sidewall temperatures included in it and that makes it much easier to dial in the right amount of camber.

Ok thanks
Quote from Hyperactive :I don't know if you read my posts at all but after this post I'm done with you. Clearly you have taken me as some kind of troll or iracing fanboy when the only I've said was that the diff can play a small role in situation when you use throttle and brakes in such manners that your fronts become locked while your rears keep turning.

I really don't know why you get your knickers in a twist when it should be obvious who I was answering to...
Quote from jwardy :yes it is. just set the account up with your bank account instead

I have not got bank account. still possible?
Quote from .Scawen :I have not got bank account. still possible?

What's up with your account? Guest?
I think it's been deactivated. Not banned, just deactivated.
I'm majorly taking back my rant on how crap the Solstice is. Doing a bit of practice (and actually driving it like a RWD car!) and now it drives REALLY nicely. Beautifully balanced and 95% of the time slides are caught easily and intuitively. Got my Okayama Long time down to a 1.49 flat which is only ~1% slower than the really fast guys
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iRacing
(13669 posts, closed, started )
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