Quote from matijapkc :

And here's a song by a croatian band named "Hladno Pivo" (Cold Beer on english... )

Even heavily indulging in marijuana I don't think I'd enjoy that song

Quote from amp88 :

You've already said twice in this thread that you drink alcohol.

I drink alcohol, I don't use it as liquid courage. And I undesratnd the risks and the affects abuse has on others, including people I don't even know or ever see.

Quote from amp88 :

Ah, so could you educate people to the dangers of marijuana and what safe limits are? Also, could you tell me the definition of "ignorant", because you must have a different dictionary than me. I think I'm more educated on the side effects of drugs (recreational and otherwise) than you are. If you're going to call people idiots at least have some logic on your side. You've made some very flimsy 'arguments', at least one logical fallacy (as JJ72 pointed out) and insulted several groups of people already.

Ok then...

-Cannabis can cause respiratory problems (although there is no solid link with cancer to be fair, and also depending on the way its taken).
-Cannabis has been linked to anxiety, psychosis and depression.
-There is also edvidence to suggest it increases the risk of pschotic disorders.

Personally I don't buy the gateway drug theory.

God knows what the safe limit is, the problem is that the long term effects are currently unclear.

You wan't a denfition of ignorant, ignorant is the kind of person who goes out and gets pissed or uses often, and forgets that others have to put up with their behavior changes, clean up their vomit, or carry out or fund their medical care for when it catches up with them. Thats ignorant.

I don't know how the fact that some need alcohol to feel relaxed is a logical fallacy, but I suppose throwing the term logical fallacy around out if context makes you sound more intelligent and intellectual. There are alcoholics out there, alcohol addiciton is a reality, not the result of overhyped government propaganda.

And apart from 'its not a harmful as alcohol or heroin so that makes it ok', what is your argument?

I agree that cannabis is one of the less dangerous of the 'famous' recreational drugs, but jumping off the roof of your house is arguably less dangerous than setting yourself on fire, but you still don't try it do you?

You need to realise that I'm not particularly against the legalisation of marijuana as it also causes its own problems, just that people need to apply common sense when they consider using it, or any other recreational drug. People should have the freedom of choice so long as they think, but people don't think.

Quote from jibber :

[/LIST]
This makes no sense. Cannabis (weed) isn't cut with anything 99% of the time. Simply because the drug itself is so cheap, it would make it more expensive once it's cut with other unsafe drugs.

You aren't cynacle enough. Resin is often bulked out to add more weight to it. As for mixing in class A, yes i've known a dealer to do that. The basic presmise is sound, many of his customers knew only him as their dealer and he wanted them hooked and dependant upon him. I don't know how sucessful he was as I try not to know people like that for long. But if you think cynically and criminally enough there's all manner of reasons not to sell cannabis pure. Do you honestly believe that every Henry is sold pure? Just how honest do you think people are? You need to spend a little while living as a backstabbing careless bastard to get an idea of what life is really like. You're too nice and trusting.

Quote from 5haz :

I drink alcohol, I don't use it as liquid courage. And I undesratnd the risks and the affects abuse has on others, including people I don't even know or ever see.

I didn't say you did. I said it was hypocritical of you to call people who smoke marijuana "irresponsible idiots" got smoking marijuana which, according to you, breaks your insides but you drink. I know you drink regularly because when asked the question "Do you drink?" you replied with "Yes I do". You didn't reply with "Yes, I have had a drink in the past". If you did it regularly you must feel it has some benefits (at least enough to outweigh the well-known side effects of drinking alcohol).

Quote from 5haz :

Ok then...

-Cannabis can cause respiratory problems (although there is no solid link with cancer to be fair, and also depending on the way its taken).
-Cannabis has been linked to anxiety, psychosis and depression.
-There is also edvidence to suggest it increases the risk of pschotic disorders.

Agreed on the whole, though these haven't all been conclusively proven (as your wording acknowledges).

Quote from 5haz :

God knows what the safe limit is, the problem is that the long term effects are currently unclear.

If you don't know the safe limit (and I think the question was a trick question because I don't think anyone could claim to have a justifiable answer to that question) then how can you insult people by saying they're too "thick" to know where their own safe limit is? Smacks of ignorance IMO.

Quote from 5haz :

You wan't a denfition of ignorant, ignorant is the kind of person who goes out and gets pissed or uses often, and forgets that others have to put up with their behavior changes, clean up their vomit, or carry out or fund their medical care for when it catches up with them. Thats ignorant.

I would call that behaviour selfish, self-centred, narcissistic etc. You could say it's ignorant for them not to know the work they make for the people around them but it's not a very strong definition IMO. It's also not what you said in this post.

Quote from 5haz :

I don't know how the fact that some need alcohol to feel relaxed is a logical fallacy, but I suppose throwing the term logical fallacy around makes you sound more intelligent and intellectual. There are alcoholics out there, alcohol addiciton is a reality.

You didn't say it about some people, you said it specifically about Klutch.

Quote from 5haz :

And apart from 'its not a harmful as alcohol or heroin so that makes it ok', what is your argument?

I've clearly outlined my thinking in the OP of this thread and in a few other posts.

Quote from Becky Rose :

As for mixing in class A, yes i've known a dealer to do that. The basic presmise is sound, many of his customers knew only him as their dealer and he wanted them hooked and dependant upon him

Stoners are looking to get stoned, nothing else.

If i brought weed and got effects that weren't weed related i wouldnt be going back to that dealer...

Not to mention its a stupid idea and would just waste his own money.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Resin is often bulked out to add more weight to it.

huh? the only use for resin is for smoking ash when you run out of real weed.

unless you're talking about making hash, but the only good way of making it is to sift through pounds of "garbage". if it gets "bulked out" with anything, it's bits of plant matter that made it's way through the sifter.

making honey oil is a pointless activity and is actually fairly dangerous, regardless of whether you use the acetone process or the butane process. the end result is usually crap.

Quote from amp88 :

I didn't say you did. I said it was hypocritical of you to call people who smoke marijuana "irresponsible idiots" got smoking marijuana which, according to you, breaks your insides but you drink. I know you drink regularly because when asked the question "Do you drink?" you replied with "Yes I do". You didn't reply with "Yes, I have had a drink in the past". Your reply suggested to me you did it regularly. If you did it regularly you must feel it has some benefits (at least enough to outweigh the well-known side effects of drinking alcohol).

Its has benefits in relatively small amounts, but what are the benefits of feeling dizzy, sick and having a huge headache and memory loss the morning after?

Quote from amp88 :

If you don't know the safe limit (and I think the question was a trick question because I don't think anyone could claim to have a justifiable answer to that question) then how can you insult people by saying they're too "thick" to know where their own safe limit is? Smacks of ignorance IMO.

If you don't know where the safe limit is then the smart thing to do is to just not go there.

Quote from amp88 :

You didn't say it about some people, you said it specifically about Klutch.

Thats not what I mean, to be fair I did say if.

You can overdose on alcohol more easily than Marijuana IIRC.
It's also less dangerous

Quote from Becky Rose :

You need to spend a little while living as a backstabbing careless bastard to get an idea of what life is really like. You're too nice and trusting.

And you need to stop thinking the whole world is full of pimps and drug dealers who try making money by getting the average weed smoker hooked on heroin by lacing pot with silver polish.

Quote from Klutch :

Not to mention its a stupid idea and would just waste his own money.

Quote from bunder9999 :

unless you're talking about making hash, but the only good way of making it is to sift through pounds of "garbage". if it gets "bulked out" with anything, it's bits of plant matter that made it's way through the sifter.

Let's go to the most extreme example: Soap Bar. Notice Ketamin on the list of substances that are often added.

Quote :

huh? the only use for resin is for smoking ash when you run out of real weed.

This is part cultural and part historical, for a long time hash was more popular than grass in the UK. I understand that skunk is now the predominant cannabis on the market here, but it wasn't always like that.

As for what the current stuff is like, i've no idea. I stopped taking recreational drugs a long time ago - although it's quite possible i'm still stoned from the sheer quantity I took back in the day.

Quote from 5haz :

Its has benefits in relatively small amounts, but what are the benefits of feeling dizzy, sick and having a huge headache and memory loss the morning after?

Where did I say it did? Where did I advocate excess alcohol consumption in this thread?

Quote from 5haz :

If you don't know where the safe limit is then the smart thing to do is to just not go there.

Well, the fact that marijuana has been smoked by humans for millenia leads me to think it's not some killer drug that's gonna drive people insane the first time they try it. The fact that no-one has died from a marijuana overdose and that most studies into its effects which conclude there may be links to severe side effects are related to chronic (chronic as in long-term) heavy usage rather than casual usage suggest to me that the danger is not that large. I am able to make an informed decision.

Quote from 5haz :

Thats not what I mean, to be fair I did say if.

It's difficult to pick out when you're intentionally insulting people/groups of people and when you're doing it by accident.

Quote from logitekg25 :

"4. it will end alot of drug wars.
5. it will be easy to get, and harder to become a criminal."

Erm.. What? It will decrease the amount of drug wars.

: 5haz

I don't understand why you seem to think the rest of us on the forum are:
1.alcoholics
2.junkies
3.unable of thought

I mean, who are you to tell we are not thinking? Are you under any illusion that you are the only one who know what's best for us? Hello? I think you should lay off the internet because I know internet addiction is a reality as well. And it clearly handicaps your ability to understand simple logic.

having a few drinks won't lead to dizziness, sickness and headaches, not unless you are a pussy.

Voted "I don't care".

I would much rather more hope alcohol to be made illegal to be honest. If someone wants to smoke and possibly get lung cancer in the long run, I don't care as long as they don't smoke in the same environment as I am in, but alcohol consumers are disgusting because they do not think or act rationally once they are drunk.

There are much more fun things in life than to get your head messed up with any kind of drugs though, it's a shame people just don't realize it.

marijuana is not more harmful than for example alcohol. both when using too much is addictive and damage body and can lead to death.
the truth is, much more people die of alcohol than marijuana.
but still i'm not sure about legalising...besides, the ones who want to use it will is use it wether its legalised or not. i'm for decriminalising it, not legalising - so people who get caught won't go to prison just for one cigarrete...

Quote from Jertje :

It's hard to talk about policy making in the space of <5000 words, especially when it regards something like the Dutch drug policy, but what it boils down to is that full-on legalisation of soft-drugs without carefully assessing other parts of the policy would only lead to more trouble than keeping it illegal. You would still have all the problems associated with soft-drug use, but none of the perceived benefits of legalising it; remember that if you legalise the purchase, selling, ownership and use of soft-drugs you will still need to deal with the trash products and resulting health bills, but you will have no way of legally controlling or tackling these issues.

I thought the main reason why legalisation efforts in the Netherlands have been stopped is that there is much pressure from countries with a stricter policies (USA, France).

One of the problems with the current situation is that demand is greater than supply (at least, legal supply). Demand is extra high because of "drug tourism" from neighbouring countries. That causes high prices, and a lure to set up large-scale production, which is illegal and requires extra policing. Legalisation could solve that. Prices would drop, and the openness would allow shopkeepers and consumers to check the quality of what they buy.

But I expect that legalisation won't happen unless the largest countries in the EU go along.

Quote from 5haz :

To be honest overall its safe assume drugs are bad and that the healthy human body can run itself without added substances.

The same can be said about parachute jumping, for instance. It has its risks, and it doesn't benefit your health in any way. But for some people the thrills outweigh the risks. The real question is: Do you trust people enough to make the choice for themselves, or not?

There's been some suggestion in this thread that alchohol is really bad and should be made illegal. There isn't really a sound medical argument against that - but there is a social one.

Doesn't anyone remember prohibition in America? In the end the American government gave up and legalised alchohol because that was the lesser of the two evils.

They should do the same with cannabis.

I think marihuana and tobacco should be switched. Marihauna not sold to underages, regulations about where you can smoke it and so on. And then tobacco completely ilegal.

Marihuana
Tobacco :thumbsdow

Quote from Becky Rose :

There's been some suggestion in this thread that alchohol is really bad and should be made illegal. There isn't really a sound medical argument against that - but there is a social one.

Doesn't anyone remember prohibition in America? In the end the American government gave up and legalised alchohol because that was the lesser of the two evils.

Read for christs sake, I never said it should be made illegal.

hmm....what about this...nobody ahs thought of this.

in my state it is de-criminalized if it is under 1 oz which is ALOT.

so they are basically going after the dealers only, right?

if they do legalize it, then who would sell it? would pharmacies? would you still have to go to your local dealer? the dealers rarely put nothing extra into that stuff, so it instantly becomes illegal again.

Quote from 5haz :

Read for christs sake, I never said it should be made illegal.

Hey, centre of the universe boy - I have read the thread, and there's more than one person who has suggested it - either sincerely or as a point of reference to mock the illigality of cannabis, which incidentally, if you read my post and understand it you'll see i'm making a clear point - just what are you trying to say or are you hung up on just attacking me for the sake of it?

Quote :

if they do legalize it, then who would sell it? would pharmacies? would you still have to go to your local dealer? the dealers rarely put nothing extra into that stuff, so it instantly becomes illegal again.

Apparently Marlboro already has the name 'Marlies' trademarked Could be an urban myth tbh i've not googled it, but I would think BAT and Imperial Tobacco would both be keen to get products on the shelves, amongst others... Possibly even some pre-rolled ones, just to broaden the appeal.

to add to some of the pro's, the hemp plant is the only plant that every aspect of it cn be used in some way, useful in some, useless in others....bracelets have little use

My thoughts about it are written in following discussion (they haven't changed and i doubt they ever will): http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1012434#post1012434

Driving while high isn't that dangerous the main problem for me is I think too much and i may lose concentration.

However you are much more cautions when your high and its definitely safer then driving drunk.