We just had an interesting semi-debate on the #liveforspeed IRC channel about legalising marijuana so I thought I'd start a thread here to get some other people's opinions. I realise there was already a thread which covered much of the same issue here but I'd like to get a poll going and start a fresh debate.

So, what do YOU think about legalising marijuana? Do you feel strongly on one side of the argument or not? Do you care? Do you think legalising it in your country would directly effect you? If you feel it should be legalised why is that? If you feel it should stay illegal why is that?

My personal opinion:

I feel fairly strongly it should be legalised because it has beneficial properties to its users (as a pain reliever and as a stimulant), it is less dangerous than other similar drugs (tobacco and alcohol) and legalising it would increase the safety of its users (they would not need to associate with criminals to purchase it, they wouldn't be taking part in illegal activities to procure or use it), the quality of the supply would improve with Government regulation, it does not have the same risks of violence associated with it as alcohol does and it would provide additional revenue for the Government.

Legalize it.
You already came up with the pro's and i don't think there are any con's.
It should be done as in Holland. A max. of lets say 3g can be bought per day and person. Required age 18.
No smoking and driving.

But actually, i don't really care. There are enough ways to buy it here, and Holland is about 1,5 car hours away. You get what i'm on about.

Drug use should carry no criminal penalty - read http://www.devilskitchen.me.uk ... nd-decriminalisation.html to see how drug use fell in Portugal when they did just that.

Can't be worse than Alcohol.

Then again people need to be warned about abuse, just like they do with alcohol. And I can see how getting high and driving could cause problems.

I personaly believe it should be legalised.

I know plenty of people who do it regulary and plenty who have done it once or twice (cough) and no harm seems to come out of it.

One of the few arguments against it I understand is the fact its a gateway drug, but I believe it ITSELF isn't a gateway drug its the way you have to get hold of it which leads you into other things,

Theres not much for me to say about it realy, I'm someone who doesn't smoke or drink regulary but I still see the positives, I'd much rather be around some yob stoned off his box than one mashed to shit.

Quote from jimaxx :

One of the few arguments against it I understand is the fact its a gateway drug, but I believe it ITSELF isn't a gateway drug its the way you have to get hold of it which leads you into other things,

That's an interesting point that I hadn't picked up on earlier.

Couldn't care one way or the other, only have 2 main issues with it being legalised (spelling might be a bit off but it's too late too care).

First is the myth of not being a dangerous drug, some do have issues with it and I have seen a few mates go off the rails due to it, but it's no different to the booze.

Second, can you imagine the amount of people queuing outside the fast food shops late at night for muchies....if I have to wait longer for my heart attack box after a night out I ain't going to be chuffed

Quote from amp88 :

I feel fairly strongly it should be legalised because it has beneficial properties to its users (as a pain reliever and as a stimulant), it is less dangerous than other similar drugs (tobacco and alcohol) and legalising it would increase the safety of its users (they would not need to associate with criminals to purchase it, they would be taking part in illegal activities to procure or use it), the quality of the supply would improve with Government regulation, it does not have the same risks of violence associated with it as alcohol does and it would provide additional revenue for the Government.

It would very much depend on the demographic of people that use this drug as to whether it would bring in extra revenue for the tax man. The effects of the use on ones productivity, as well as where one gets the money (welfare?) to pay for it all come into the equation. I think the mathematics are far too complex to simply say it would bring in more money to the treasury.

Also I am not sure government regulation automatically improves quality. A law in itself is a regulation and the drugs trade is a filthy disgusting world. SO that's also open for debate.

The core ground for argument is fundamental. I for one don't care if someone wants to smoke weed or whatever because people can make up their own minds. It's whether you believe in that concept that should thrust the debate. Not some weak argument about how it would bring in taxes once legalised.

Quote from jimaxx :

One of the few arguments against it I understand is the fact its a gateway drug, but I believe it ITSELF isn't a gateway drug its the way you have to get hold of it which leads you into other things,

I don't believe it's a gateway drug either. I know a lot of Mari-J smoking people and i know how they started. All of them we're (cigarette) smokers way before touching the green stuff. So Tobacco is the real gateway drug. But thats just my opinion.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

First is the myth of not being a dangerous drug, some do have issues with it and I have seen a few mates go off the rails due to it, but it's no different to the booze.

The real danger is the users character. The addiction of (to, idk) Mari-J is completely mentally. Where heroine addiction for example is both, physically and mentally.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

Second, can you imagine the amount of people queuing outside the fast food shops late at night for muchies....if I have to wait longer for my heart attack box after a night out I ain't going to be chuffed

Don't worry, they all won't have money left for noms becuase they literally burned it.

There are so many missunderstandings about the worlds favorite plant. So here's a few:

• Cannabis can be addictive. You can even get DT's coming off it.
  
• Cannabis can be hugely benefitial to some people when used as a medicine.
  
• Cannabis can be harmful. It can cause many psychological conditions.
  
• Cannabis is often cut with other, non-safe, content - including but not limited to more addictive class A drugs, or household products.
  
• Cannabis does not lead to other drugs (that's a social construct which does that - and if you change the social circumstances it's used then you change the social construct).
  
• Cannabis is less dangerous than alchohol.
  
• It's folly to argue that Cannabis is less dangerous than tobacco when it is frequently (although not exclusively) mixed with it - but as base compound - yes tobacco is significantly more dangerous (and also more addictive, thanks to added chemicals such as amonia which increases the addictiveness of nicotene sevenfold).
  

Cannabis is and should be used as a medicine, I don't understand why it isn't. Almost all medicines are highly addictive and have nasty side effects - we take them because the things they cure are worse than the consequences of the drugs.

It makes no sense that cannabis can't be made available to the people it would help because some do gooding christian mother drove her daughter to crystal meth and the doting mum blamed it on the drugs... That's the paradox people, people die in agony because medicine isn't available because of a social issue, and like all social issues, it is little more than a misunderstood generation gap.

Like many medicines I dont see why Cannabis isn't out in the open, available either without prescription from a pharmacy.

Being open about drugs helps in educating in their use - and whilst being open with crack might result in more harm than good - being open with cannabis will help reduce the overall harmful effects of the substance on our society.

The biggest problems caused by cannabis on our society, other than an entire county without fire extinguisher safety pins stolen for use as twooners, is from overuse - and that could be easily cured by encouraging a more responsible attitude toward drug use instead of this "just say no, drugs are bad, they'll **** up your life" approach that's used now - when to anyone who's actually used them, they're pretty sure they're in control (until they aren't - ask me how I know).

Quote from Becky Rose :

It's folly to argue that Cannabis is less dangerous than tobacco when it is frequently (although not exclusively) mixed with it - but as base compound - yes tobacco is significantly more dangerous (and also more addictive, thanks to added chemicals such as amonia which increases the addictiveness of nicotene sevenfold).

I agree with the vast majority of your post but I have to take issue with your logic here. You're saying that because people often (but as you point out not exclusively) mix marijuana with tobacco that makes marijuana more dangerous. This is not logic. Smoking a pipe or bong with no tobacco is less dangerous than smoking a cigarette, would you agree? If so then it's not folly at all to say that marijuana is less dangerous than tobacco.

Quote from Intrepid :

It would very much depend on the demographic of people that use this drug as to whether it would bring in extra revenue for the tax man. The effects of the use on ones productivity, as well as where one gets the money (welfare?) to pay for it all come into the equation. I think the mathematics are far too complex to simply say it would bring in more money to the treasury.

In Intrepid's world all cannabis smokers are unemployed loosers who lack the sense of self worth to make any sort of commitment to the country all, thuys they fail to contribute to his ultra right wing fascist utopia - and the utopia, I meen state, should not be giving them a penny just so that they can spend it all on drugs.

Quote from amp88 :

I agree with the vast majority of your post but I have to take issue with your logic here. You're saying that because people often (but as you point out not exclusively) mix marijuana with tobacco that makes marijuana more dangerous. This is not logic. Smoking a pipe or bong with no tobacco is less dangerous than smoking a cigarette, would you agree? If so then it's not folly at all to say that marijuana is less dangerous than tobacco.

I said exactly what you said, but instead of questioning my logic I used different words and emphasis.

Also I think it's rellevent to point out that i'm not a Cannabis user, I haven't touched drugs for about 10 years except one wayward weekend when I got drunk and did a few joints a few years ago. I am an ex-junkie, but i've been clean some years and if cannabis was legalised I would have no intention at all to ever use any. Infact i'm recently back from a week in Amsterdam/Haarlem and I didn't go to a single coffee shop.

Quote from Becky Rose :

In Intrepid's world all cannabis smokers are unemployed loosers who lack the sense of self worth to make any sort of commitment to the country all, thuys they fail to contribute to his ultra right wing fascist utopia - and the utopia, I meen state, should not be giving them a penny just so that they can spend it all on drugs.

lol Becky please read what I said before posting ignorant nonsense. It's quite obvious I have a slant towards libertarianism so if you think that's 'fascist' then you have absolutely NO IDEA what fascism actually is! Your supposed to be one of the smart ones on the forum. I am almost offended! I know more than most about the under-class so please stop getting on your high horse.

I was highlighting a possible flaw in the argument legalising Cannabis would increase revenue into the Treasury. That's all ... nothing more!

Legalise it, at least then it will be safer, also we could recover from the recession by taxing it and tourism would go through the roof.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Legalise it, at least then it will be safer, also we could recover from the recession by taxing it and tourism would go through the roof.

But we'd bankrupt Holland (because we would have "drugs and The Queen", and they would only have "drugs and a Queen"), that in turn would finish off the Euro, which would leave Britain as the only Western power left to stem the tide of manufacturing from China.

Quote from Evoluti0n_II :

The real danger is the users character. The addiction of (to, idk) Mari-J is completely mentally. Where heroine addiction for example is both, physically and mentally.

I don't believe it so. I'll say that Marijuana is just as addictive as tabacco or drink. I've seen some suffer the same type of symptoms you'll expect to see from someone coming off the booze (amidlty that was an extreme case, but sill the point stands)

either way I don't think its any worse than whats out there just know legally, be it at your local supermarket or the chemist.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I said exactly what you said, but instead of questioning my logic I used different words and emphasis.

Err...you really didn't. You said it was "folly to argue that Cannabis is less dangerous than tobacco" because it was often mixed with tobacco. The fact that it is often mixed with tobacco doesn't make marijuana any more dangerous.

Quote from amp88 :

Err...you really didn't. You said it was "folly to argue that Cannabis is less dangerous than tobacco" because it was often mixed with tobacco. The fact that it is often mixed with tobacco doesn't make marijuana any more dangerous.

but I said that tobacco was more dangerous and addictive too - like I said, all the facts, different emphasis... I see tobacco is coming hand in hand with cannabis (maybe that'd be the gateway drug! ). Although I have known 1 person who was so anti-smoking he'd only toke it pure from a bong... but he was weird... because of that my conclusion is that smoking cannabis leads to smoking tobacco, so the ill effects of tobacco need to be considered when regarding cannabis in a social context. As I said, on a medical level, tobacco is significantly worse than Cannabis in most respects.

To be honest overall its safe assume drugs are bad and that the healthy human body can run itself without added substances. If you need drugs to have a good time/as an emotional crutch then you have life problems which drugs aren't the real answer to.

I think it's a mistake to assume that it's only the working class that buy it, from what I've seen it's mostly middle class people that buy it. A considerable number of my friends are on their final warnings with the police for having cannabis on them, and most of those hold full time jobs and degrees. Infact I know more people that smoke cannabis than tobacco. You might think I just hang around dodgy people, but you ask anyone with a social life these days and they could probably reel off a list of at least a dozen users and probably a few dealers.

If that'll stop people white as the driven snow from rapping or singing with a Jamaican accent if within 100 meters of a joint, I say go for it. I don't particularly give a **** either way, but the endless, smug blabbing about drugs drives me up the wall.

Quote from Becky Rose :

but I said that tobacco was more dangerous and addictive too - like I said, all the facts, different emphasis... I see tobacco is coming hand in hand with cannabis (maybe that'd be the gateway drug! ). Although I have known 1 person who was so anti-smoking he'd only toke it pure from a bong... but he was weird... because of that my conclusion is that smoking cannabis leads to smoking tobacco, so the ill effects of tobacco need to be considered when regarding cannabis in a social context. As I said, on a medical level, tobacco is significantly worse than Cannabis in most respects.

There are a lot of people (particularly students) who smoke pure from a bong or pipe (or other rudimentary device). Categorising marijuana and tobacco together is a mistake, IMO. Dealing with them separately (even if they are often consumed together) loses perspective of the marijuana debate (both here and in the public eye).

Quote from 5haz :

To be honest overall its safe assume drugs are bad and that the healthy human body can run itself without added substances. If you need drugs to have a good time/as an emotional crutch then you have life problems which drugs aren't the real answer to.

...where to start with this tripe. You say it's "safe to assume drugs are bad". Urgh. What drugs are we talking about here? Acetylsalicylic acid? Sounds really bad, doesn't it? "Oh, it's acid so it must be bad? It'll rot your brain". Well, that's Aspirin. I assume you mean that drugs which the UK government classes as illegal (e.g. Marijuana, Cocaine, Heroin, Ecstasy) are all bad for you and are crutches? Well, what makes those drugs more harmful than the drugs that society deems it's OK we indulge in (e.g. caffeine, nicotine, refined sugar, aspirin, codeine)? Do you think it's acceptable to take drugs as long as they're legal? Would it surprise you to learn that heroin was legally available in the UK in the past? Was it acceptable then? What would you say to the thousands of people across the UK who rely on manufactured drugs every day for pain relief? Is morphine or marijuana wrong for terminally ill cancer patients? Is it a crutch? Also, it's funny you think the human body can run itself without added substances. You don't eat or drink?

http://www.newscientist.com/ar ... illness-strengthened.html

I think the risk of mental illness would cause me to pause. I've never used any drugs other than the moderate drinking of alcohol, the occasional panadol for a headache and coffee of which I also consider the over use of as dangerous so you will probably dismiss me

I've known quite a few people (family and friends) my age and a bit older that have definitely struggled with or are still struggling with mental illness due to regular cannabis use when they were younger.

I wouldn't be opposed to it being used for medicinal purposes under the direction of a doctor/psychologist but don't think it should be legalised for general consumption, but then again the deterioration of health I see in tobacco smokers also causes me to wonder why that is still legal as well.

I don't think any differently of people that smoke dope as I do of people that smoke tobacco so my opinion is not based on paranoia but rather observation.

Its still much too easy to grow so taxing will not be as easy as it sounds.

However I agree with legalization.