Quote from Gabkicks :

i just read some game devs say that dx11 games can be made to support dx9 cards.plus, i just ran the stalker COP benchmark, and that ranges from dx9 to dx11. where did you read that dx11 games cant support dx9?

morpha said it pretty much. Games can be made to support all versions of dx, but you need two versions of the engine. One engine that is made with dx7/8/9 and another one that is made with dx10/11. Dx10 and up is not compatible to dx9 and earlier.

There are still many people with older hardware and OSes (mainly people with XP) that are in games target demography which is why almost all games go the extra distance and make the game have both dx9 and dx10 engine. There is currently only one game I know that only has Dx10 engine (Shattered Horizon).

With LFS' in mind having two separate engines would be less than optimal and would increase the already long development times.

Also, equally important, upgrading to a newer DirectX version does not result in better graphics.

If Scawen were to upgrade to DX11 right now LFS would still look the same, the only difference being that it would not run on DX9 hardware/WinXP anymore (as mentioned you need to have two graphics engines to support both DX9 and DX10+). Newer DX versions just give the developer more possibilities regarding special effects, or allow some effect calculations to run faster than on older versions due to shader language enhancements. Scawen would still need to code all these effects to begin with, and LFS isn't even using the simplest of DX8 and DX9 effects.

Quote from geeman1 :

morpha said it pretty much. Games can be made to support all versions of dx, but you need two versions of the engine. One engine that is made with dx7/8/9 and another one that is made with dx10/11. Dx10 and up is not compatible to dx9 and earlier.

No longer the case with D3D11. As long as you stay with the feature subset that is supported by D3D9 cards (Shader Model 2 and a lot of limitations on what you can do with different formats and render target layouts), you can use the D3D11 API on D3D9-11 cards. This is new with D3D11, and was not possible in D3D10.

D3D11 will however only work on Vista+, so it's hardly an alternative for LFS in the foreseeable future.

Interesting. Didn't know that.

The point is moot though if it still won't work with XP. The problem isn't that people don't have DX10 GPUs, the problem is that they are still using XP.

Quote from geeman1 :

Interesting. Didn't know that.

Neither did I, interesting indeed.
I'll read up on it once in possession of DX11 capable hardware, testing examples using the REF device is just no fun at all

Quote from geeman1 :

The problem isn't that people don't have DX10 GPUs, the problem is that they are still using XP.

Yep. I really wish MS would put out a version of D3D11 for XP, only supporting the D3D9 subset. It's not like the old excuse of differing driver models still applies, so it's just artificial product differentiation that's stopping them at this point. Up to them of course, but if they did that D3D11 would instantly become the no-brainer API for Windows graphics.

Unless something magic happens to the LFS userbase over the next few years, I think OpenGL may be the way to go for LFS if an API change is to happen. As obnoxious as that API is to use (comparatively speaking), it is at least more or less fully featured on all cards using Windows 2000 through 7. As a bonus you get better portability towards other platforms if Scawen ever gets inspired.

Quote from smurfer :

Maybe this article could clarify some aspects:

OSNews, Win 7 kernel

smurfer, still using wine...

hm very limited, some talk abut microsoft finally also got familiar with spinlocks etc. Indeed database-systems will go to complete halt with many users if this is not implemented.

Interesting, the claimed performance increase is at least on desktop market totally non-existent. That is win7 is often just a bit slower than vista. win7 is claimed to boot faster, by many ,than vista , it does not. It is claimed to perform better, in game-benchmarks, win7 is usually slower.

Please take note of the following very interesting sentence:
"Windows Vista, which simply didn't perform very well, especially in its early days."

Looks like vista users can be very happy microsoft decided not to artificially keep the improvements away from vista

Quote from Woz :

It was never really used in the wild and so was a second class, poorly supported OS from both MS and hardware vendors.

It wasn't poorly supported from MS. If you think it is because it has no SP3 - you are wrong. It has completely different kernel, so different bugs and different patches and different SP's.

No windows 95? aww

There is a world of difference between vista and 7. With vista everyday on this setup (no overclocking) BSOD. Win 7 works 90% of the time. (even if my pc takes a year to come on in morning. No i don't know why. Guess it isn't a morning person :razz

Quote from 91mason91 :

No windows 95? aww

Windows 95 doesn't supports DirectX 8.1

Quote from Luke.S :

There is a world of difference between vista and 7.

Like Pound and Euro or Dollar. Looks different but does the same .

Currently on Vista x86

Will move on Win7 x64 pretty soon. No compability issues with vista so far tho (for me).

Quote from Runt :

Windows 95 doesn't supports DirectX 8.1

But i have 7 and 95 on my pc

Quote from Franky.S :

But i have 7 and 95 on my pc

The poll is about which OS you use to play LFS and since Win95 lacks support for DX8.1, you can't possibly be playing LFS on it.

Quote from Luke.S :

With vista everyday on this setup (no overclocking) BSOD. Win 7 works 90% of the time. (even if my pc takes a year to come on in morning. No i don't know why. Guess it isn't a morning person :razz

Exactly the same with my Vista in his old days.

Hibernating is the future Less time to switch the whole system on and you have everything already ready to go

If Logitech G25 would run on OS X, I would use OS X. But I'm using Win7

G25 does work in OSX, and then you can make it better with some tool that will enable clutch support and 900 degree rotation by sending the special packet that the G25 requires.

Win7 - 32 bit, Wanted to get 64, but wasn't available on Student deal

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

G25 does work in OSX, and then you can make it better with some tool that will enable clutch support and 900 degree rotation by sending the special packet that the G25 requires.

Is that MacOS X-only thing or Linux supports that too? :s

Also, does FFB works with it?

Quote from DoC_uk :

Just curious as to what the guys outside the UK are paying for Win7 ... from what I gather from the lemmings that 'just bought regardless' about £70 ish for the basic home ...

I realise that the home pro will be £120 .. my question is ...The os it worth it?

I bought mine on Amazone UK ( the Pro version ~180 € with shipping)) but in France it's not too far from 300 €!

Quote from Sp33d Up :

Win7 - 32 bit, Wanted to get 64, but wasn't available on Student deal

i got x64 on student deal

Quote from jostheboss :

Holy moly...just 5 people out there using a Mac? Come on, racers!

I talked to a guy who owns a mac. And he said they aren't good gaming computers......

Quote from Napalm Candy :

If Logitech G25 would run on OS X, I would use OS X. But I'm using Win7

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

G25 does work in OSX, and then you can make it better with some tool that will enable clutch support and 900 degree rotation by sending the special packet that the G25 requires.

Same reason as Napalm Candy except Ubuntu 9.10 and WinXP. In my limited testing with the G25 and wine I couldn't get it to work all the way. So if you guys have any info about magical tools and packets for OSX/Linux, please share

How much was the Windows 7 student deal? I got home premium for £45 (pre-order).