Nah. I found out its impossible to train the AI like that.
Same class 12 cars works much better then 12 different cars.

For example I was training FOXes on FE Gold. It was going well they really learned. Then I removed all learned files and tried just one of each and they kept going over the edge into the sand and spinning out. They recovered but kept doing it. So.... I guess its somehow impossible to train them at this point. Or the 2 smaller cars would roll on the roof at the last corner before Start finish line and the GTI hits it so bad and doesnt repair itself that it stays stationary on track with really bend front end and try to keep going but cant. Doesnt resets itself either.

Quote from danowat :

I can't understand how in this day and age, and coming from a rich, developed country like the USA, AND, obviously having a PC and an internet connection, that £24 or $42 is so hard to come by, I can obvioulsy understand people having problems from less well off countries like eastern Europe, but even then I would wonder how difficult it is, because they have again obviously been able to afford a PC, and the monthly cost of a net connection.

If you really wanted LFS that much you would find a way, heck I remember doing paper rounds for £5 a week over 20 years ago, I give my 8 year old daughter nearly £10 a week for doing household chores, I mean she could buy a license in a little over 2 weeks.

If fear that laziness comes into play a lot, as it is in no way impossible to get £24 if you try.

Dan,

Isnt internet in the states free also? Google internet or something.

Quote from DEVIL 007 :

The problem is actually not in LFS but in the others who are connected to the servers.There are still guys around who use modem connection.

Also someone can have fast connection but very bad ping thats why you see them warping.

If the net code would be more simplier you would like the see the car "floating" and not like moving on the ground.Just check for example TOCA3 how looks other cars when moving.LFS is in this way more realistic.Its always something for something.

There is also feature called "online speed up" and you can set in what disstance you still see the car.On slower computers it boos up your FPS.

Thats actually the whole point. No I want the netcode to be better not simplier. Simple it already. Rfactor is fully smooth online and thats what I would like to have here also.

The only way for this to work would be if the skins are loaded into memory of your GFX card only. I havent heard about anybody extracting anything for a GFX yet since all hacks are done to extract stuff from computer memory only and nobody did yet need to crack textures. But for this LFSW would need much more bandwidth. An easy solution around this is that they allow us to host or own skins on or own webhosts. I'm sure everyone has at last 10MB free webspace from his ISP.

For what you want to archive. You dont need a penalty system. You need something more strange like realistic damage like seen in netkar.
OR if you wanna go with penalties I would imagine a weekly incident counter which gets reset after each week. Then your name above your head turns into red. So everyone will know you are PKer.
Hahahaha...

Honestly no I dont want anything that sticks forever in your stats. Thats crazy and sooner or latter it will penalize you for others mistakes. You just cant get anything like this 100% working.
In the situation where you said if you try to pass and he closes doors onto you. You would get penalized for it. Now thats again an exploit because people will start doing this and none will risk a pass anymore. Finish the race as you qualified. Also like said I'm fine if it gets reset by end of the week but not with anything what sticks.

Last edited by Sawyer, Wed 26 Apr 2006, 16:55.

Cool. thanks

I think you work to hard and should take half a year holidays now

lol you arsh

Quote from Becky Rose :

Whilst I do agree with your point in a basic sense it isn't entirely true. Only a few days ago I was accused of driving back onto the track after a spin and taking cars out because "It was the pink car". In that race there where 3 pink cars, unusually, the least pink of which was mine !


I wont give a current example, but here's the Windows 95 key format

AAAAA-oem-AAAAA-AAAAA-AAAAA (if I recall correctly)

Win95 checks the validity of each block of AAAAA by adding up all the numbers, if the total equals the mathematical operator &7 (ie: is divisible by seven without any fractions left over) then it's a valid key.

So I could write a keygen that generates the first 4 digits randomly, lets say 1519. And then works out what the fifth digit needs to be to make it valid, in this case 15195, totalling 21, which is divisble by 7.

Every single game and utility i've ever seen with a CD key code has also had a pirate CD keygen utility written for it.

The only game I know of "never" to be pirated in online play is the MMO's, the original of which was Everquest. Which if you connected to one of the servers running the 3rd party server software (there was more than one, but one example is eqemu) it worked without a valid Everquest license.

So even the unhackable got hacked, in a manner of speaking.

As a programmer who has had to get to grips with proprietry file formats before I find the hardest "protection" to break is not encrypted at all, it's compression. Compression makes reverse engineering far harder than encryption/hashing/bit swapping etc.

With images it's easy to discern a pattern in a "bitmap" format, and it's the pattern (such as large areas of background colour) which give away the format. With compression there are no constant patterns, making it a pig to crack.

All of my own proprietry formats now include some form of compression.

However the problem is the extra cpu juice used when loading them, for most games this isn't an issue - but LFS loads and applies the skins in a live situation ... This is a big problem because it basically rules out doing anything cpu intensive whilst loading the images.

No what I meant. You never get a working CDky for online play. Offline allright they work thats just as good as cracks anyway. But I have never heard of a game which wasnt bugged like STEAM for some time to get it working. Just like LFS. You can crack it for offline but you wont get online with that and without an account. So I say the protection works 99.9% on this one. Just like you cant play CSS on offical servers without an key nowdays.

Last edited by Sawyer, Wed 26 Apr 2006, 15:36.

Actually I was talking more about a view like that.
http://freeweb.siol.net/denisbr5/LFSview.jpg

Now can you honestly say this is not the most realistic view

btw. where is the hide hands and wheel button hidden? I cant seems to find it anymore.

Last edited by Sawyer, Wed 26 Apr 2006, 11:41.

Quote from RedStarArmy :

I have a 3.0mps cable connection and everytime I am connected to a server (usually ping 60-125) and there are more than around 6 or 7 cars..there is always at least wrapping at the start of the race so many times the car ahead of me doesn't seem to move so i try to avoid it, only to have the car reappear 200 feet infront of me a few seconds later...alittle annoying but I've always excepted it as part of the game

Yeah thats what im talking about. I think this happens always. There is alway one car which wouldnt move until you try to dodge lol.

Quote from Thorvertonian :

I think you'll find they are crackable as well

Nothing is uncrackable or unhacakable, it's just a bigger challenge for the crackers!

Well yeah they are crackable in a way to make cracked dedicated servers. But I have yet to hear about someone making a valid CDkey gen for any game.

Get real guys. They have already a hard time protecting the game itself from crackers (which they are doing great with the forum and multi player) now you want Skin protection? lol.
If he wrecks with your skin well who cares. He will get banned or noticed by his LFSW username. Noone will come and say hey this TeamSkin driver wrecked me but they will call the wrecker by the name and possible username. So you may aswell go protect the names now.

Everything can be cracked, EVERYTHING apart of the multi-player CDkey and username solutions. But everything for offline play.
IF someone really wants to abuse it he will do so. He will just take a look at your car and paint his own version of it. Now what you gonna do? Now he has actually the full right to his skin.

Last edited by Sawyer, Wed 26 Apr 2006, 11:06.

Yeah but still why. That looks like nice detail to it to me. No other sim has moving objects in yet.

If there are no tyres on FF Gold I will just drive straight into T2

How can you say this are useless?

The most realistic view is that you just see the track nothing more. We should maybe force that

I have my wheel infront of me. My hands also. So the cockpit view is the most unrealistic to me at present

The first picture is actually a pretty realistic view. Ok granted the view should be moved abit down and to left but yeah thats what I mostly need to have on my screen if the other part are before my monitor.

Last edited by Sawyer, Tue 25 Apr 2006, 23:00.

And what if the guy behind tries to pass on the straight next and the car goes aiming for him on a straight? Thats what happened to me the other day. He said sorry but still. Your system would blame me.
Or about cars going 80km/h in a blind 180km/h corner. Same again. It would blame me.
illepall

Why do you have to change that in a demo?

Yeah trianing one AI and making clone copys after does work.
Also the AIs dont seem to get better just faster until to a point where they start running to wide and into sand traps. They should take note of that and make it slower into that corner again.

Last edited by Sawyer, Tue 25 Apr 2006, 11:55.

solely depends how good the wireless is really. The best thing to do is ping a server over 1000 times and if no big pings raise up you can say its rock solid.
For example a new technology here will come in action in about a month or 2. Its wireless and its rock solid. It uses Docsis system just like cable with pings of 7,8... So thats some kind of super duper wireless connection which is better then standard ADSL2+ with pings of 14ms.
Wired cable is probably still better but it has same pings as the wireless solution but only tests will tell this.

For example I can play any game with my upload fully maxed out with utorrent. If you use Cfosspeed it will hold your ping steady under 40 all the time no matter what.

Would it work if I just train 1 car of each class then make clones and rename the files to AI 2-12?

Yeah. I guess the AIs first need to be fully up to speed. I just had one little tin top in middle of F1s and they kept hitting it and throwing over the wall lol.

Lol thats fun watching the AIs

Just had 11Foxes and 1 Sauber starting from back. Foxes very already pretrained for some 1:21laps on FE Gold. Sauber was new and started to learn. He dropped back big time and got them on approx lap 25 out of 30.

Now the AI6 sauber which was pretrained. I tried to start only a Sauber race and putting this car at end and he plugged the field lol. Seems like he knows how to pass Foxes but not other F1s.

Now I imagine it will be a bit hard to train all cars and all combinations if each learns on its own especially with a 12 AI limit.

Last edited by Sawyer, Mon 24 Apr 2006, 15:55.

So are you saying the AI does learn like in the latest rfactor patch?
Until what point will it keep improving?

Quote from (SaM) :

LFS uses state of the art interpolation wich makes it one of the smoothest online games.
.

Pardon me but I would say it comes out short in the netcode department. Everyone I talked with said they wish it has such great netcode like rfactor and I agree so where do you see that state of the art interpolation again?

4Mbit/512kbps pings are around 50 on the servers I race.
But at end of a race you usually stop after the start finish line and make some burnouts. When I drive past a car and make a fast burnout into his direction. Also when I drive past it disappears and when i turn around I see him popup again.

Also on starts. Some cars simple dont come from the start when the race starts then suddenly warp to front on the other side others may be fully smooth.

Last edited by Sawyer, Mon 24 Apr 2006, 09:04.