Hey guys,

I've just heard from a teammate he daily sees 3 to 4 people online using our teamskins...
Now if it were Biggie's or other aliens it wouldnt be a real problem but most of the time they are either wreckers or newbie's, often they seem to be the ones causing mayhem in t1 for example...

Question is what can we do about this, apart from asking them friendly not to use our skins?

I'm just thinking it would be nice to have a certain unlock code / password attached to skin filenames that can be set by the one that uploads it.

If you agree on this I can post it in the Improvement suggestion forum, but maybe someone has a better idea?

no, there is no way to prevent this. Be proud, that people - even if they are wreckers - like your skins and use them. The moment you put them online to lfsworld, people get them and can use them freely.

self discipline and mutual respect?

Quote from JJ72 :

self discipline and mutual respect?

Wish it was that easy

Quote from Vykos69 :

no, there is no way to prevent this. Be proud, that people - even if they are wreckers - like your skins and use them. The moment you put them online to lfsworld, people get them and can use them freely.

What is wrong with my password suggestion? Imo it's a way to protect the skins..?
Oh and yes, in a way I'm proud people use our skins, but I'd still rather see they didn't

How about upload a poor quality on to LFSworld, and distribute a high quality one to your friends? that way your friends will always see the good skin, and the people who use them without permission have the poor one?.

Or you could put a banner on the uploaded LFSworld skin?.

Just an idea, not sure about the password idea though, seems a little heavy handed.

Dan,

Quote from traxxion :

Wish it was that easy


What is wrong with my password suggestion? Imo it's a way to protect the skins..?
Oh and yes, in a way I'm proud people use our skins, but I'd still rather see they didn't

There is NO WAY to protect a jpeg image. If a player joins a game you are in your skin jpeg is downloaded to their skinx directory which is the download skin cache. They simply copy it to their skin directory and now they can use.

LFSWorld has a record of members of each team, maybe a team skin can be uploaded to LFSWorld where only the registered members can display this skin in game???

Quote from Woz :

There is NO WAY to protect a jpeg image. If a player joins a game you are in your skin jpeg is downloaded to their skinx directory which is the download skin cache. They simply copy it to their skin directory and now they can use.

Don't tell me there's now way . There's always a way, but it might mean a complete different way of thinking, handling and coding.

Quote from Thorvertonian :

LFSWorld has a record of members of each team, maybe a team skin can be uploaded to LFSWorld where only the registered members can display this skin in game???

Good idea, though if people rename the skin and upload it into their own account they can easily avoid that protection. So maybe also an encryption of jpg's in the skins_x directory should be possible for teamskins?

If you don't want your skins used by others then don't post them up on lfs world, then they will not get into other people's skins_x folder. Distribute your skins round your team by email so the team members can see them. This I think would be a big step backwards to S1 days when loads of blank skins were racing round all the time. Be flattered that others aspire to be identified with such a good looking skin.

Quote from al heeley :

If you don't want your skins used by others then don't post them up on lfs world, then they will not get into other people's skins_x folder. Distribute your skins round your team by email so the team members can see them. This I think would be a big step backwards to S1 days when loads of blank skins were racing round all the time. Be flattered that others aspire to be identified with such a good looking skin.

Stepping backwards is not exactly what I'm trying to achieve here, so I dont see "not uploading to lfsw" as a solution .
And again, in a way I am flattered people use our skins, but we've put a lot of effort in giving the team it's own face, and I'm quite sure a lot of teams have, so it's not very nice to see people walking away with that work. Edit: especially when they "abuse" it.
I keep thinking there's always a way, so why not try to come together and find a nice solution?

I wouldn't be very proud if some wreckers would use my teamskin! It certanly won't help you gain respect in lfs comunity if somebody wrecks and does nasty stuff while driving with your teamskin Al.

Quote from Thorvertonian :

LFSWorld has a record of members of each team, maybe a team skin can be uploaded to LFSWorld where only the registered members can display this skin in game???

This isnt solution, not every team is registered and you can upload their skin renamed to lfsw as yours. Solution: if you upload skin, there would be option (checkbox) if its public or private. if public, no change from now, if private, skin would be coded to some unknown format (jpgx) created by devs and cant be shown via lfsw web by other users. jpgx will be normal jpg if decoded by lfs.exe, so you can see it on other cars, but jpgx cannot by used in skins dir (only in skins_x), so you cant use it.
(excuse for my english)

Quote from Pablo.CZ :

Solution: if you upload skin, there would be option (checkbox) if its public or private. if public, no change from now, if private, skin would be coded to some unknown format (jpgx) created by devs and cant be shown via lfsw web by other users. jpgx will be normal jpg if decoded by lfs.exe, so you can see it on other cars, but jpgx cannot by used in skins dir (only in skins_x), so you cant use it.
(excuse for my english)

My words exactly, this should be possible and not too difficult to achieve, I think.

And then someone would probably figure out where to read the decoded skin values from memory using a debugger. Even if the file name was locked on LFSW it would just need renaming and we'd back to square 1. I can't see that working against people who intentionally want to abuse your skin, although it would prevent random ppl from getting hold of it.

Yes, everything can be cracked, but 99,999% users dont know how to do it, especially stupid wreckers

lfs should just lock the skin-x file i'm sure they can do that

I don't think it should be too hard to protect the skins...

Scawen could set it up so that the skin_x folder will be deleted as soon as you quit the server or end a replay. This would greatly increase the traffic of the LFSworld server though.

Another possibility is to use different file types (allthough I guess that would be a tad harder to program) for usable skins and vieable skins. so e. g. the skins_x folder uses jpg, and the skins folder uses tga. I guess that most skin stealers wouldn't bother to convert the skin...

And another one: "simply" create an original skins_x file extension like .skx. It wouldn't matter much if it were techically renamed JPEGs, because as above, most stealers would be put off by the fact that they couldn't just copy and paste the files to use them...

These are not 100% secure ways to protect the skins, but they will at least reduce the skin stealing.

A more secure method would be an option for the uploader of skins to flag it either as public or private, where he could create a list of user names that are allowed to use it. Then the skin wouldn't show up (or even better, be replaced with an "using unauthorised skin" skin) when someone uses it without being in this list. So he would have to upload it by himself to be able to use it, which would be another hinderance.

So two or three of these possibilities combined should make team skins reasonably secure... Allthough I think that further improvement of LfS has a higher priority than protecting skins IMHO.

EDIT: should read other answers before posting myself... lot of it has been mentioned already

A picture cannot be protected against people who ignore copyright, not that I expect your skin had a copyright marking.

If you put a copyright on it you could technically ask the LFS devs to provide personal details of the "thief" in order to bring about a prosecution ... but that's just a tad extreme !

I have two things which protect my main skin from abuse by 3rd parties:

Firstly I have my driver name on the skin, not everyone wants to race with a front wing that says "Becky" and a driver ident under the cockpit of "B.Rose";

Secondly it's got a lot of pink on it, and very few people want to race with a pink car.

Mind you, I never really thought about these things when I made my skin, but I guess those are the main reasons why i've not seen other people using my sublimely sexy skin .

Quote from Becky Rose :

my sublimely sexy skin .

hrhrhr

Quote from Becky Rose :

...

Personalizing skins is one way, though a lot of work for (big) teams. Doesn't take away that we've recently started working on that.

Quote from ColeusRattus :

I don't think it should be too hard to protect the skins...

Scawen could set it up so that the skin_x folder will be deleted as soon as you quit the server or end a replay. This would greatly increase the traffic of the LFSworld server though.

Another possibility is to use different file types (allthough I guess that would be a tad harder to program) for usable skins and vieable skins. so e. g. the skins_x folder uses jpg, and the skins folder uses tga. I guess that most skin stealers wouldn't bother to convert the skin...

And another one: "simply" create an original skins_x file extension like .skx. It wouldn't matter much if it were techically renamed JPEGs, because as above, most stealers would be put off by the fact that they couldn't just copy and paste the files to use them...

These are not 100% secure ways to protect the skins, but they will at least reduce the skin stealing.

A more secure method would be an option for the uploader of skins to flag it either as public or private, where he could create a list of user names that are allowed to use it. Then the skin wouldn't show up (or even better, be replaced with an "using unauthorised skin" skin) when someone uses it without being in this list. So he would have to upload it by himself to be able to use it, which would be another hinderance.

So two or three of these possibilities combined should make team skins reasonably secure... Allthough I think that further improvement of LfS has a higher priority than protecting skins IMHO.

EDIT: should read other answers before posting myself... lot of it has been mentioned already

Why should it be so complex. The simple solution as already stated is that the skin is encrypted and only decrypted when in memory.

But unless its done with serious encryption it will be cracked by someone quickly and then skins wont be protected anymore. This is just the nature of software and the internet.

There are far better uses for the devs time than implementing security on the skin files. Unless its done right, which takes serious work, it will be cracked quick and hence be a waste of dev time.

It would be possible to make some sort of protection using a fileformat that is very hard to crack, but since it is an image, I think something like that will be cracked pretty soon. And I dont consider the problem big enough to create some kind of uberprotected format. Just think of all the time that has to be put into LFSWorld, LFS itself and for skinners while skinning. A protection will cause more trouble then it would solve.

My vote is to keep it the way it is. What we did with our teamnic skins was to put "This skin is property of teamnic and can only be used by teamnic members". Of course it is not a real protection, but I think it helped a bit, because I dont think we ever saw anyone use our skin after that.

Quote from Frankmd :

What we did with our teamnic skins was to put "This skin is property of teamnic and can only be used by teamnic members". Of course it is not a real protection, but I think it helped a bit, because I dont think we ever saw anyone use our skin after that.

Did the same with the personal 1st racing skins now, lets hope it will help a bit

Quote from Frankmd :

I dont think we ever saw anyone use our skin after that.

I was gonna make a silly joke about your skins but I can't really, cos I liked the teamnic skins very much.

Anyway, still in favor of a simple encryption. If people want to crack it, they always can, but I think they won't do it as soon, as much and as easy as they can now and that's what we're trying to achieve, right?

Quote from Frankmd :

What we did with our teamnic skins was to put "This skin is property of teamnic and can only be used by teamnic members". Of course it is not a real protection, but I think it helped a bit, because I dont think we ever saw anyone use our skin after that.

if only it was as easy.. Its ben done on ours too.. but we keep seeing the same guy wear it. Not that i am bothered... free advertising :P

It seems to be the same guy that uses it though. So i dont think its as big a problem as some are making out.