He would be starting way above the zero level.. It would take a lot less time for him to reach level x, than for someone who hasn't driven simulators.
I think you are giving way too much weight to sensation, feeling and to the tiny physical details. The latter affects the less. It still helps a lot if the physics are somewhere close to realistic. I mean, all the cars are different, but if you have driven one, you can more easily learn to drive another one.
Feelings and sensation will make it hard for first, but you will get used to them quite fast. And how much those affects, it heavily depends on individual.
Controlling a car is mostly coming from muscular memory, you don't have time to think it in your cognitive consciousness while driving. Training muscular memory is slow process, and to some level, you can train it in simulator. And it makes it easier (faster) to learn IRL racing.
Uh, the COD part was joke i hope. But what comes to war, military uses a lot of simulators as a training tool. And so does flight companies and NASA. I think they know what they are doing, better than you.
You can learn to be a better tank driver, gunner, helicopter pilot, astronaut, airplane pilot, etc... by practicing in simulator. You can also learn to be a better car driver.
They use simulators in driving schools nowdays. And bus simulators have been used for a long time to educate bus drivers.
If you are only saying that driving in LFS doesn't make you michael schumacher, then wtf are you doing? Do you just want to provoke? That's totally obvious to everybody that it doesn't.
But it helps a lot, ALSO in terms of being able to control it. And shortens the learning curve.
EDIT:
Can you define what you mean by 'racing dynamics'. If it includes knowledge of weight transfer, and the ability to control it using throttle and brakes, and the knowledge of how it affects the car in different situations, then yes i agree with you. And by knowledge i don't mean the knowledge you get from reading the book, but what you get from practicing. The ability to make correct actions in a split of a second, without thinking it. Like a reflex, action coming from muscular memory.
After you get used to g-forces, and get over the sensor overflow, and the sensation and feelings messing your mind, the knowledge you have gained from simulator is there. And you can use it. At that point it's very far from zero level you mentioned earlier.
But if you have never driven a car fast, near to the limits, you should not think you can handle it even if you are LFS WR holder. Only after you get used to it, the feeling that your life (or health at least) is on your hands RIGHT NOW, and be able to stay totally focused and calm in that thrilling moment, you start to get advantage from simulator training. But that's not a big step, not nearly as big as you describe it. It wasn't for me at least. I got used (addicted) to that feeling when doing "down-hill" with my mountain bike at 7years old, and never looked back since.
The hard part in simulators is that you don't get that feeling. And it's much harder to stay focused and concentrated than IRL, and your mind starts to wonder around and then you find yourself making stupid mistakes. So IRL racing doesn't necessarily make you better sim racer, that's for sure. I think rosberg has very hard time finding the motivation and concentration to drive the simulator like he drives the real thing. I drive simulators coz i don't have the money to drive the real thing nearly as often i would like, and i'm not fast enough to get someone to pay the bills.
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Just watch the video you posted, this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O35m4avY3O0.
At 1:14, there are curbs on the entrance, and if you watch it closely you see his not braking over it.
Apexing over curbs is totally different issue. It doesn't matter that much what's under your tires, if the tires are barely touching the ground.
Exiting and accelerating over curbs is yet different, the amount of force is much smaller than in initial braking, so not that much grip is needed. And you can even lift off a bit on exit over curbs and still maintain higher exit speed.
That claim sounds very narrow-minded to me. Why don't you brake on grass then? Just do it 100meters earlier, hell, it's the shortest and straightest way so it has to be quickest, right?
The quickest way around a track, is the way where distance / avg.speed is smallest. You are saying is that only distance matter, well here's the big news, avg.speed is just as important and the result of both is what matter. When the curbs are more slippery, it means you have to brake earlier. It maybe worth it, or maybe not. Depends heavily on the particular curb and corner. If you barely have to brake to the corner, then it's probably worth it. If it's tight hairpin after a full speed straight, then i wouldn't do the initial braking on curbs.
I have never seen race driver to intentionally brake over curbs. But maybe there are corners where it's fastest way, dunno. But not in LFS way, that's for sure.
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Yes you are and were right. There is negative pressure in the intake manifold, after the flapper, and too much pressure before it in tubes.
Confused it..I have always thought that dump valve is opened by the overpressure before flapper. But it's much better to use manifold pressure after the flap, i think it reacts much faster that way, less space to create negative pressure in intake manifold than there is in pressure tubes before the flapper? And you don't have to readjust it every time you change the pressure.
No, it's more of an opposite. Dump valve (blow off valve?) is in intake manifold, yes. But it opens up when pressure gets too high, not on negative pressure. And negative pressure in intake (on charged engines) happens when you flat the throttle and there is yet no pressure.. It happens when cylinder sucks more air than there is in intake. Not when you lift off.
Big turbine in big booster is quite heavy, which means it has quite a lot of inertia. When it rotates at it's full speed, it doesn't stop immediately when you lift off the throttle, but keeps spinning.
As long as it spins, it keeps building pressure (pushing air to intake). But when throttle is lifted off, the flap is closed and air has nowhere to go, it can't go to engine. So pressure in intake manifold very rapidly raises too high. It may even break the turbo, in case of very high boost. Boosters goes to state called surge, an unstable state between compressor and turbine, don't know the details of this.
And even with smaller boosters, it slows down the turbine dramatically meaning it takes a long time to build up pressure again after shift or quick lift off. With dump valve the pressure is released to atmosphere, which means the turbo can spin freely, without counterpressure, which means it slows down much slower, which means the pressure goes up much faster when you flat the throttle again.
Wastegate affects to pressure in a very different and much slower way, it simply adjust the pressure to wanted level by controlling the flow of exhaust gasses, if they bypass the booster or go thru it, so you don't blow up your engine/compressor with overpressure.
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I totally agree..
Maybe it could be compared to driving different cars in LFS, if you first learn to be very fast with XRG and then switch to XRT, you are much faster than if you haven't driven the XRG first.
In small details it's totally different, but still same enough to help a lot.
You can't get super fast XRT driver by practicing with XRG. You can't get super fast irl go kart driver by practicing in LFS. But it helps.
In the road safer equals better.. faster usually equals worst. leave the racing to track plz.
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Yes but there's no kart in LFS, except MRT which can be pretty close depending of what kind of kart u drive. And i think the current state of tyre physics affects most to cars with slicks.
But my opinion is that road cars are quite close. If i drive with XFG and then go do laps with my 'track day hatchback', it's really not that far. Not far at all. The weight distribution/moving is pretty much the same (with realistic setup in LFS ofc, try to duplicate irl setup, and no locked diffs
), so it's possible to learn a lot of IRL handling in LFS, depending on car and setup you use.Of course it's still not the same, g forces and the fact that crashes hurts and costs a lot makes it a very different world. But the basis of handling and weight distribution, which should come from backbone, can be trained with LFS to certain point.
imho.
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Maybe i used wrong term, if i think it now the load term may also contain the amount of resistive forces, like air flow, friction, gravity. Of course these doesn't affect. In practice of course they seem to affect but not directly, if you are driving to very tight uphill with 1st gear it takes longer to accelerate to rev limiter, so there is simply more time to spin the turbine and produce pressure. Physics engine gravity takes care of that, definetly not part of engine simulation.
In fact what i ment by 'load' was intake pressure. The thing that causes the engine to sound like it's under 'load'. Intake pressure is often used by ECU to determine amount of fuel injected, in cars which engine has been tuned. Stock cars use airflow meter for that. Highly tuned turbo cars often use throttle position.
The whole point here is, when you hit the rev limiter ecu stops injecting/igniting. But intake pressure also doesn't change on rev limit, so i was wrong all way to the bottom.
So the engine simulation algorithms needs to be fixed in a more authentic way.I think this is the main reason for why the turbo seems so unrealistic..
It almost seems like there is no actual 'engine load' parameter involved when calculating turbine speed, but throttle position is used instead. Which means 100% throttle == 100% load, which is far from being realistic.
It seems the same applies to engine sound, you can clearly hear the intake sound when rev'ng to limiter full throttle on neutral. Sound starts to change immediately when you are releasing the throttle.
So i wonder there isn't that parameter anywhere in simulation. If that's true, then adding realistic 'engine load' parameter would greatly affect turbo behavior not only at neutral and when revving to limiter, but also on low gears and rpm's before/after torque peak, making it harder to build boost.
The more air in cylinder, the more fuel injected, the more exhaust gas produced, the more pressure build. So the pressure also builds more pressure, cos it's air in cylinder. That's why it's harder to start build from zero psi, and easier to maintain when you got max psi.
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First you should determine if it's caused by network connection or your computer by using a simple pinging test.
Open command prompt and ping some well known fast server at your area. Since you are from finland, ftp.funet.fi will do just fine. So, open up command prompt and type 'ping -t ftp.funet.fi' and press enter.
It will start to ping the server and give times (as millisecs) of how long it takes to send a packet from your machine to server. That is called latency. Usually with adsl connection it's 20ms-50ms, and it should be quite stable.
First check how much it is without lfs running.. Then start lfs in windowed mode, go online and watch if latency changes when race starts. If it goes much longer, then there is something wrong with your connection. If it does not, then the problem is in the game (or your computer which can't handle it).
Press ctrl-c in command prompt window when you want to stop the pinging..
Also check the game fps (frames per second, framerate) when racing starts. That's the constantly updating number at top-left corner. If it goes very slow, below 20 or so, it may cause the lagging issue.
Give those results and we may continue from there..
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Yes the difference seems very small to me also. I think it's because of unrealistic tyre physics, and hopefully changes as well via new patch.
I don't know about totally locked-diff FWD, but i have drive few times with FWD N-series rally car with quite stiff clutch-pack LSD. Not on tarmac, but on ice (rally tyres) and gravel. It has some kind of power steering.
You really have to be ready to hold the wheel when you apply throttle on corner. It's (for me at least) totally impossible to hold it steady with one hand, and you need to have good grip even with both hands on wheel or it will slip. That's one reason why seats tend to be very close to wheel on racing cars, you have much more power when there is good angle in your elbows and you can use your big arm muscles to hold the wheel.
And that was on gravel and ice, and with LSD.. Hard to imagine what FWD 100% locked diff on tarmac would do, probably you break your steering in first corner if you flat the throttle.
If you somehow manage to hold the wheel.That's waaay over the torque G25 will produce with 100% force.
Combine that with commonly used unrealistic 270deg lock, which will almost triple the steering torque when compared to 700deg lock.
If power steerings breaks on FWD car with nothing stiffer than open-diff, it's very very hard to drive and you lose a lot of time.. Basicly you can't throttle on corners anymore.
Or at least have to be very gently.I think it would be pretty easy to calculate the pure steering force (without power steering), from the amount of force going from wheels to track, steering lock and car width. From there you can calculate how powerful power steering you would need to make it driveable.
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Yes, over aggressive is slower. But with XFG, proper setup and the current state of lfs tyre physics you can be much faster if you drive more aggr than in that video.
On many corners it's very fast to kinda 'throw it in', go back to zero steer as fast as possible and flat out way before apex and let it 4wheel slide thru the corner. Overdoing it is very slow ofc coz you lose the driving line and/or spin the wheels.
Maybe the term 'aggressive' was misleading there, just drive more faster thru the corners. Maintain higher entry speed, higher apex speed and higher exit speed.
Your state of mind should be very calm and smooth and focused, not aggressive at all.Slow in fast out is the way to go, in general. But in that particular video i didn't see any problems caused by too fast entry speed, coz the entry speeds and turning in was not over aggr it was too careful to me.
First of all, get proper setup. As already said, setupgrid or setupfield is the place to go.
One general note, you are hitting apex too wide on about every corner, and not going wide enough on exit. You should use every inch of track width. You should hit the apex as in as possible, cutting over curbs.
T1: Brake harder, turn in harder and cut over the curb. Once back on throttle, keep it flat out until the T2 after long str8. No need to lift-off at the chicane.
T2: You brake bit too early, and also turn in a bit too early, and you don't turn in aggressive enough. You should brake earlier, still brake a bit on entry as well, turn in later and cut over the curbs here as well, and smoothly go back on full throttle a bit before apex. Use the whole width of the track on exit.
T3: You go too slow, and don't hit the apex inside enough. Cut thru curbs and let it go much more wider on exit. You don't need to retain the right side line to next left hander, you can cut it hard next to tyre pile at full throttle.
Same deal on right hander after the hill, let it exit much wider to left, use the curbs and you can go much faster.
Final turn was best i think, but still you can cut in even more aggressive and you don't have to lift off throttle after apex.
One general note, you are hitting apex too wide on about every corner, and not going wide enough on exit. You should use every inch of track width. You should hit the apex as in as possible, cutting over curbs.
T1: Brake harder, turn in harder and cut over the curb. Once back on throttle, keep it flat out until the T2 after long str8.
No need to lift-off at the chicane.T2: You brake bit too early, and also turn in a bit too early, and you don't turn in aggressive enough. You should brake earlier, still brake a bit on entry as well, turn in later and cut over the curbs here as well, and smoothly go back on full throttle a bit before apex. Use the whole width of the track on exit.
T3: You go too slow, and don't hit the apex inside enough. Cut thru curbs and let it go much more wider on exit. You don't need to retain the right side line to next left hander, you can cut it hard next to tyre pile at full throttle.
Same deal on right hander after the hill, let it exit much wider to left, use the curbs and you can go much faster.
Final turn was best i think, but still you can cut in even more aggressive and you don't have to lift off throttle after apex.
All the stuff i use is already said, but repeating is never bad.
The most important thing, bind left/right view buttons to wheel, bind them to the two buttons which are the easiest to reach during the race, coz those are the two buttons you are (or should be at least) using most.
Watch your mirrors, and when it's possible someone is at your side with overlap, use side views. Make it a habit, your second nature, to check your sides before corners. You should always know if there are another cars nears by, and where they are. If you are not sure, use side views.
Second important thing, is to listen. Use headphones or properly positioned surround speakers so you can hear where the sound is coming from.
Combine mirrors, properly binded side view buttons and listening, and you pretty much know what's happening around you.
And i use cockpit view.
I have configured left/right views so they instantly rotates 90degress, not the 45deg steps which is the default. I noticed that's what i want most of the times.
The most important thing, bind left/right view buttons to wheel, bind them to the two buttons which are the easiest to reach during the race, coz those are the two buttons you are (or should be at least) using most.
Watch your mirrors, and when it's possible someone is at your side with overlap, use side views. Make it a habit, your second nature, to check your sides before corners. You should always know if there are another cars nears by, and where they are. If you are not sure, use side views.
Second important thing, is to listen. Use headphones or properly positioned surround speakers so you can hear where the sound is coming from.
Combine mirrors, properly binded side view buttons and listening, and you pretty much know what's happening around you.
And i use cockpit view.
I have configured left/right views so they instantly rotates 90degress, not the 45deg steps which is the default. I noticed that's what i want most of the times.
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You should not try hard to stay off the line, just take it easy, use your common sense (you can do that only if you take it ez
) and give room when it is needed. Here is the ultimate work of art diagram showing howto safely give room in corner. 
If done properly, you hardly lose that 0.1s by yourself, as a slower driver.
Yes i totally agree it is a bit too easy to drift especially with slicks. But i think the actual problem is that there isn't enough friction when not drifting, at the point when the drifting starts (don't know the correct term in english) so cars starts to drift in situation where it should not. So you have to drift, if you want to be fast. Bcos the car starts to drift too easily.
I think more aggressive angle of attack is needed. Not sure if the lap times are decreased, but the way the car goes thru the corner at the same speed is hopefully changed.
Road cars doesn't feel ultra realistic either, i mean, i used to own 170hp RWD road car and well, XRG tail feels very very slippery compared to that.
You don't have to be that careful with throttle with those horsepowers irl, it's very hard to get a drift at high speed just with throttle on dry tarmac, simply not enough power. And XRG has what, like 140hp?It's just too slippery, like driving on wet tarmac irl. Or gravel. And at gravel controlled small drifting is usually fastest way to go.
But soon it will all change...
My actual point was, that even with realistic physics the simulator WR's will still be higher than IRL. Not to argue that LFS physics are ultra realistic.
And driving at the gravel in LFS is sooooo smooth, feels like driving on ice with normal road winter tyres.. No worries, no hurry to catch it up, just long smooth slides all over the place.
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That's almost impossible to implement, a game can't know the actual wheel lock of hardware, or FB strength. Or if not impossible then very hard anyway, game have to ask those parameters from wheel drivers of every vendor, and im not sure if that information is even available at driver level? And if it's done it's very easy to bypass anyway.
The wheel lock setting in LFS does not mean the wheel actually turns that much.
What comes to shifter & axis clutch, those things could be very easily detected with insim script, right?
How much fb force is needed for it to be realistic? Depends highly on situation, if you smash your front wheel to railing 200kmh you need quite a lot for it to feel realistic. Enough to break your fingers. For normal racing situations, if i remember correctly i've heard it's somewhere around 10kg force on the ring of std size racing wheel. If std racing wheel is 30cm that would mean 30Nm (right?), which is waaaaay more than any fb wheel on market can produce. Of course it's varies a lot depending on car.
The wheel lock setting in LFS does not mean the wheel actually turns that much.
What comes to shifter & axis clutch, those things could be very easily detected with insim script, right?
How much fb force is needed for it to be realistic? Depends highly on situation, if you smash your front wheel to railing 200kmh you need quite a lot for it to feel realistic. Enough to break your fingers. For normal racing situations, if i remember correctly i've heard it's somewhere around 10kg force on the ring of std size racing wheel. If std racing wheel is 30cm that would mean 30Nm (right?), which is waaaaay more than any fb wheel on market can produce.
Of course it's varies a lot depending on car.How come this is so unrealistic? Small amount of oversteer while entering the corner isn't that bad irl, nor difficult nor dangerous nor slow. Usually much faster than understeer. Big drift angle or drifting on corner exit is bad.
Beyond the physics, one small thing separates IRL and simulator world records.
In many tracks, there are spots which you maybe might be able to take the same way as in lfs world record. But you only can make it one time out of ten, and nine times you end up crashing the hell out of you, and probably one time of those nine you just die or at least end up in ER.
In other words, in simulation you can push it to 100% limits, crash,crash,crash and crash and finally do it, and slowly learn to do it more and more often, which in IRL is not possible. In real racing you must drive much less aggressive or your career will not last very long. So in theory it's possible irl also, but in practice you just can't use the try-n-crash training method near as aggressive as in simulator.
I want to see the crazy sob who cuts the FE chicane IRL like in game. Well, bad example, you probably break your suspension so badly the lap stops right there. I think damage model in LFS is much more unrealistic than tyre physics, and personally i just hate those tracks which exploits the damage model and physics engine issues. Coz i can't drive them properly.
In many tracks, there are spots which you maybe might be able to take the same way as in lfs world record. But you only can make it one time out of ten, and nine times you end up crashing the hell out of you, and probably one time of those nine you just die or at least end up in ER.
In other words, in simulation you can push it to 100% limits, crash,crash,crash and crash and finally do it, and slowly learn to do it more and more often, which in IRL is not possible. In real racing you must drive much less aggressive or your career will not last very long. So in theory it's possible irl also, but in practice you just can't use the try-n-crash training method near as aggressive as in simulator.
I want to see the crazy sob who cuts the FE chicane IRL like in game.
Well, bad example, you probably break your suspension so badly the lap stops right there. I think damage model in LFS is much more unrealistic than tyre physics, and personally i just hate those tracks which exploits the damage model and physics engine issues. Coz i can't drive them properly.
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Basically i agree with you, the same problem exists in multi-class (different car classes mixed in race) servers even if all the drivers are fast.
I think a 'semi-divebombing' against blue flagger is totally ok..? I mean the situation when you are right at his bottom, but without overlap.. As long as you really are fast enough, and can make the corner tight enough to leave room for him as well. Choose inner line early enough way before braking point to show him you are going for it. In a slower car in that situation i would brake a bit earlier and let faster car pass before turning in. Don't fight it, not even a one bit.
If you are joining mid-race, and are slower than others, then you should be very very careful. Watch the map, and if you think there is a change he will catch you before the next corner/chicane exits, just slow down dramatically (or even stop) and let the pack pass you before the corner. Just make sure you do it on right side the track, opposite side to driving line.
The stuff u mentioned, when someones tries to drive thru you in the middle of the corner, that's BS. The faster driver in that case is very stupid, like he doesn't want to pass you at all, just wants to show you you are in his way. Stupid.. If you encounter slower car in the middle of the corner, you have to go around, not thru.. You should however take it easy and leave him room to go around, if it's possible. Especially when you are not fighting for position yourself, just take it easy and leave the room inside, if possible.
You should go to some well administrated server, (IHR) Ironhorse Racing (just sort the server list by driver count and it's the first one) is very popular ATM, and administration seems good to me. Earlier the same sheep-kickban-voting problem was there, but it seems it's gone now since kickban voting is not allowed when there is admin online. And there is always admin online.
And if you are much slower, like several secs per lap, it's not that bad thing to let the way faster driver pass without defensive moves even without blue-flag. After i learned to do that, and tried to follow them instead of blocking them, my laptimes started to improve quite fast. You know, fighting for positions is fun but if it's obvious you are very much slower then it just might be much more entertaining and useful to try to follow instead of trying to desperately block.
Have fun..
I think a 'semi-divebombing' against blue flagger is totally ok..? I mean the situation when you are right at his bottom, but without overlap.. As long as you really are fast enough, and can make the corner tight enough to leave room for him as well. Choose inner line early enough way before braking point to show him you are going for it. In a slower car in that situation i would brake a bit earlier and let faster car pass before turning in. Don't fight it, not even a one bit.
If you are joining mid-race, and are slower than others, then you should be very very careful. Watch the map, and if you think there is a change he will catch you before the next corner/chicane exits, just slow down dramatically (or even stop) and let the pack pass you before the corner. Just make sure you do it on right side the track, opposite side to driving line.
The stuff u mentioned, when someones tries to drive thru you in the middle of the corner, that's BS. The faster driver in that case is very stupid, like he doesn't want to pass you at all, just wants to show you you are in his way. Stupid.. If you encounter slower car in the middle of the corner, you have to go around, not thru..
You should however take it easy and leave him room to go around, if it's possible. Especially when you are not fighting for position yourself, just take it easy and leave the room inside, if possible.You should go to some well administrated server, (IHR) Ironhorse Racing (just sort the server list by driver count and it's the first one
) is very popular ATM, and administration seems good to me. Earlier the same sheep-kickban-voting problem was there, but it seems it's gone now since kickban voting is not allowed when there is admin online. And there is always admin online. And if you are much slower, like several secs per lap, it's not that bad thing to let the way faster driver pass without defensive moves even without blue-flag. After i learned to do that, and tried to follow them instead of blocking them, my laptimes started to improve quite fast.
You know, fighting for positions is fun but if it's obvious you are very much slower then it just might be much more entertaining and useful to try to follow instead of trying to desperately block.Have fun..
Oops, too bad.. Well it would be nice rally car at least. Better tyres then, which i hope we will get with new physics.
Merry Christmas.. I hope you get it fixed, looking forward next year. I checked it few times last week and server was empty all the time.
Those things affects much much more to your lap times than perfecting the shifts, first things first, right? And why don't you learn to shift then, instead of complaining about shift lights?
Quarter car length compared to.. what.. Perfect shift vs good shift? I don't think so.
With intelligent shift lights, like in LFS, which knows the exact optimal shifting point on every gear, nobody gains nothing. Without shift lights, the ones who actually bothers to learn how to shift will gain that small advantage. Which is very good thing.
Most stock road cars doesn't have factory installed shift lights. Of course you can install one, you can also install adjustable suspension and bigger turbo.
Hmm.. first of all the exact ultimate shift point really isn't THAT important, is it?? As long as you don't let the engine hit the rev limit, and don't change in the middle of the best torque zone, you lose almost nothing.
For example you lose more if you shift up 1sec before the next braking point, better to overrev the engine a bit and adjust gears a before next race. Not to mention shifting in the middle of the corner and losing grip for instant and forced to take too wide driving line.
As for shifting by hearing, yes, i think you definetly can learn that. But sure, it takes a bit of learning. Shifting point is a bit different on all the gears, depending the setup. But after you drive few laps, you start to learn the decent shift points, based on what you hear. Again, it's not THAT important to shift exactly on the right rpm. If you are focusing mostly to shifting, you can do much better if you start to focus on driving line and keeping the car balanced with throttle.
The thinner the good torque zone is, the more important shifting point is, obv. The more engine is revving, the harder it is to hear the amount of torque from sound. With F1 it's waaay more important than with road cars. And with rally car on gravel you can't hear the engine. Same with super high power track cars, the gearing and diffs are so loud it's hard to hear the revs.
So, personaly i really don't care about road car shift lights... Never payed too much attention to them before, on long straights i used to watch em, but it's really not that hard to shift without. And it's same for everyone, just focus on another things and forget the damn light.
And what goes to custom installed shifting lights, well, if the devs would took that route then it's very easy to install adjustable suspension to road cars as well, still they are removing the setupping possibility. Let's think them as stock road cars, and have fun with em.
For example you lose more if you shift up 1sec before the next braking point, better to overrev the engine a bit and adjust gears a before next race. Not to mention shifting in the middle of the corner and losing grip for instant and forced to take too wide driving line.
As for shifting by hearing, yes, i think you definetly can learn that. But sure, it takes a bit of learning. Shifting point is a bit different on all the gears, depending the setup. But after you drive few laps, you start to learn the decent shift points, based on what you hear. Again, it's not THAT important to shift exactly on the right rpm. If you are focusing mostly to shifting, you can do much better if you start to focus on driving line and keeping the car balanced with throttle.
The thinner the good torque zone is, the more important shifting point is, obv. The more engine is revving, the harder it is to hear the amount of torque from sound. With F1 it's waaay more important than with road cars. And with rally car on gravel you can't hear the engine.
Same with super high power track cars, the gearing and diffs are so loud it's hard to hear the revs.So, personaly i really don't care about road car shift lights... Never payed too much attention to them before, on long straights i used to watch em, but it's really not that hard to shift without. And it's same for everyone, just focus on another things and forget the damn light.
And what goes to custom installed shifting lights, well, if the devs would took that route then it's very easy to install adjustable suspension to road cars as well, still they are removing the setupping possibility. Let's think them as stock road cars, and have fun with em.
Yes, FXR with good gravel tyres and electronic locks (front, central, rear) which can be adjusted by speed and throttle position would be quite near to WRC car.
On full throttle at lower speeds, all the locks are usually very very stiff, which means when you flat it, it will rush where it is pointing. Without throttle locks are pretty much open. Meaning with all those horses you can drive it on gravel like lift off, throw it in hard, flat it.
Oh and we need decent gravel tyres, those beasts goes ~3sek 0-100kmh on GRAVEL. Mainly because all the three diffs are ~100% locked in situations like that (slow speed, full throttle), but also because there is much more grip in real rally tyres. The ones we have now are lacking grip very badly.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG