Quote from IIIIIbarcodeIIIII :

Mate, if you judge a sim by it's graphics I honestly feel sorry for you.
I still fire up falcon and GPL on occasion (and RBR all the time) even though they tend to make my eyes water in this age of dx10 bloom bullshit.

Although I heard they almost put in a volumetric, jiggling pitcrew but they were £20 short... so that one's on you.



Get real mate.

Actually i played Gpl non stop for years until last year when all the tracks i love were converted to Rfactor....(like isle of man,grand de turini(monde carlo),le mans...etc )
-Also there are hd remakes for the cars and tracks for Gpl !!!

(You must download the new modified core version and then you download all the cars and tracks )

And about falcon...After lock on falcon is ancient history...Especially now that flaming cliff 2 has released (Its actually a full game -don't let the name full you that it is just a second expansion pack for lock on....)

Quote from IlGuercio :

In fact i'm not, surely much less than you are.
So? What's your point, doctor, will i survive?
There is something i can't stand about all this stuff going on, or rather not going on, so i come back from time to time and see if something has changed.
But, looks like i have, like you, been waiting for nothing so far.
The truth is that an experiment like this, where the developers are in strict contacts with the buyers and players, would have required a better effort in communication from the developers side since we're not talking to a corporate but to a tiny group of friends. Again, the management of the community has been so minimal that the only official race was that LX week years ago (correct me if i'm wrong) which looks like a bit of a joke since LFS is (maybe was) a popular and good simulator. Something should have changed when everything went from being known by a bunch of people to be played even by 14 years old guys which post like they are texting.
Everyone has come to the conclusione that THEY could have given LFS a different and more serious attitude than it has but looks like THEY are perfectly fine with their attitude. I mean, 2 years for a car to be released (maybe 2, who knows) ? And still i don't know how it is possibile for Scawen to know what he's doing if he doesn't know how much is there to correct in the tyre physics (since he says he can't give us an estimate about the residual work) .
Now let your usual "it's their game and they work as slow as they want and blah blah blah" since looks like some of you can't really write down a post that isn't a copy of what is between the quotes.

I am with you man....
I tried futusly to suggest a few ways to give a breath of life to lfs and instead of having people trying to improve lfs all i got was the below :

1. Lfs is "their game" and they do what they want.
( I know that ,but is it bad to expect improvement ? )
2. Demo users must die ! (With those responses i am glad i did not use my brother's account )

3. Lfs is a sim it does not need graphics because it is not NFSPEEDZZZZ !
(Ok i know that too,that's why i still bother,but is it a bad thing to have a simulation that looks good too ?- i mean take a look at the recent competitors,rfactor's latest mods look sweet,as well as the upcoming rfactor 2.And while gtr evo/race on are far from perfect they look quite nice,especially with the hdr plugin....)

4.Leave lfs as it is i don't want a screenshot generator !
(Me neither but if my 3.5 year old computer can run lfs at full detail at 1920x1200 with a 16 car grid with 200 fps,you don't expect lfs to be halted graphically so your $400 grocery store offer computer can still run it ? )

5.Lfs its all about quality not quantity-i don't want many bad tracks and cars.
(I support this more than anybody else but really how long will a run of the mill in real life track and a ff car last ? A week or two perhaps ? )

Quote from JazzOn :

LFS_adam, if you are waiting for over fancy graphic gimmics, you can wait a very long time i'd guess. But you are missing out of the fun of driving the other cars against players.

All LFS graphics lack is more complex lighting system and that's about it and it will take a while until a realistic simulator comes along with it. (iracing isn't there yet either)

But then again, you play already S2 and just want to troll, huh?

JazzOn why you keep trying defending lfs shortcomings ? We are all here because we love lfs.But critique is a good thing and until lately it was considered the biggest form of flattery.

Have you played any other simulators lately? Forget the dreaded iracing.Craemmer was my sim hero but iracing money sucking scheme makes me furious.And except the open wheel/gtr main physics and the very few laser scanned non oval decent tracks its not even that good.

I am talking about gtr evo/race on ,the latest rfactor mods even FVA (witch is a preview of things to come for netkar).

As all the above games run with dx9 renders and they all feature shader effects for starts something lfs lacks as it still uses a dx8.1 render system.

Shaders are great for real time reflections and also are great to have the light reflected from a warm tarmac.Also they are very good for weather effects and gtr evo/race on has some very nice rain effects.
Also real time lighting is really sweet if it is variable with changing time of day like it is implemented in rfactor.

Then with dx9 you can also have bloom and hdr and even through none of the above games has it there are the Enbseries Hdr patches for gtr evo/race on and rfactor.(they are not perfect through but still improve the overal graphics a bit)

Then are the car models.They are very dated where gtr evo/race on and the latest rfactor mods feature some incredible looking cars.(and don't find me the excuse that the problem is licensing as slightly changing the actual name of a car and its badge makes it perfectly ok to have any car you want-the same with track names).Especially as of recently there are some beautifull models for many real normal cars released for rfactor.Normal (non gtr) supras,skylines,lexus,corvettes,nsx,truenos,ferraris,classic cars etc...
And there are the incredible looking CTDP 2006 v1.21 now....and i could go on and on...

And then there is no animation for 3d spectators /crew as also there is no grass or 3d trees.Just play games like RBR and than you will understand how important the above things are.

There are also no volumetric smoke/particles effects.


To close my long rant please have in mind that i am not talking only for the moment.You can say it does not matter (the best excuse i hear is lfs is a isim so i don't want graphics and fanboyism like that...)
Have in mind that some incredible simulations are just around the corner...
Have you given a look at the upcoming Rfactor 2 ? It improves on almost everything from rfactor 1 as it has a better tire model,an improved real feel version,full animations for hands/drivers and for spectators and crews,some sweet weather effects that take in account also the weather speed and direction and overal temperature,night driving,some great mods straight with the release and also improved lighting with bloom and hdr effects ....

Gtr 3 ? I can only imagine what they will add....The same with the next version of netkar that inevitably will come after the FVA challenge is finished...

And even on the console world as Gt5 comes closer and closer it looks as a much better game and more of a sim than most people expected it will be.

Thanx Breizh for bringing some logic in this thread

Quote from CodieMorgan :

I am going to hunt you down and smack the shit out of you......

Every thread you create - you are constantly flaming the developers. If you think you are going to make a difference - you WONT. How about you stop now. Buy a license, Race in S2 for 6 months , and come back when you have some real suggestions from some more actual in game experience.


If you continue opening threads this were you are constantly flaming and begging for more content - you will be reported in an attempt to simply shut you up.


/thread now. This guy is getting annoying.

What the #$%$^ $ IS YOUR PROBLEM ? :mad:

And YES I WANT to make a DIFFERENCE ! There are altenative ways to have the game developed faster and better.I am not talking about maybe and if and someday.I am talking about NOW and i give solid,sound and safe for the developers ways to do it.NOW

I am not daydreaming and bullshiting like you do who have idolized the game to a podium and attack anybody that has a different opinion.And it is people like you when they realize how behind lfs will be in the upcoming genre of simulations(Rfactor 2,Gtr 3...) that will forget lfs first.

And the devs dont need anybody to defend them.I have said times and time again how astonishing the fact that they have reached so far is for 3 people.From ancient times wise people say that critique is the biggest form of flattery.I it wasn't for my respect and love for their project i would not spend my time to show them better ways to continue their game.

Do i said i just want more content ? All my posts are with one goal have the pressure of car models relived from the devs with altenative ways as also the pressure of updating the existing tracks (by contests) so they can concentrate more on physics,better damage,weather effects and yes also the physics of some new cars and some tracks.

Last edited by justasimfan, Fri, 10 Sep 2010 13:26.

Oh my God !! Victor posted in the other thread we also discussed about the models before closing it! Heheh

Not a comment through about the models.....At least he read about them and maybe checked them out ( i hope )

And sorry for repeating another thread but here are the cars i talk so much about (If devs could make a contest for making the best models there would be no reason for them to buy them but they are afraid) :

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Vehicle/Car

-There are dozens of incredibly amazing models complete with interiors.You can buy them for very logical prices(for 100-150 euros each but have in mind their quality gives a run for their money even to the "premium Gt5" models....)

-Also ALL real cars featured in lfs are there in mind boggling details
some examples :
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/...o-model/488135

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/...als-car/457776

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/228091

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/551792

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/554840

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/544691

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/530295

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/532862

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-rx7/485495

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/...a-supra/428586

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/...d-model/249217

Quote from AtomAnt :

You also have pretty big mouth, I Fly Canada , Home of the DART team...Home of Lester Pearson
Winner of the Noble Peace Prize...what did your leader do?

Oh That's right..

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009 ... n-trial-january-2010.html

Keep up the good work.

Tell me that this a joke !! Oh God...I cannot believe that in 2010 and the whole world still is so messed up about religion....I remember when i studied there were people from all over europe and we got along just fine.Put some religion in the mix and everybody starts killing in the name of ...god...And "human rights" are all warped up lately.They sent you to jail if you dare speak about something BUT they have no problem to pay immigrants thousands every month for comming illegaly in a country yet the people that were born in a country get starving pensions and are out of work(where immigrands get thousands of euros every month by goverments to keep them behaving +plus they work for half the salary's people normally work for so half of europe's citizens are out of work...)

So the world is #$% up....

Quote from cargame.nl :

You have a very big mouth for a demo user. When do you get a job to buy a S2 license?

You talk in dollars all the time, isn't it time to change your flag?

Read my whole article man before critisize....I don't want to buy another s2 license as for the moment i would have to play with a shitty wheel...(when i want i can with a cockpit with a car chair and a g25 wheel...)

Those hate for demo users come from within ? Burn the demo users hehheh ?

And i talk in dollars because that is the currency everyone on internet is using.Sure we have the pound and the euro but when i buy something from the net i always tend to pay with dollars.And even there is ebay.co.uk you can find almost nothing of worth there.Were in the normal ebay you can find dirt cheap many things(like computers and computer parts/peripherals) even with the shipping.

When you can buy a entry level(but 1366fsb !! ) i7 with a decent video card like a gtx285 or a 5 series ati and 3-6 gb of ddr3 memory at around $1000 that is a still my friends.I remember when the i7 was released even the entry level cpu's(1156fsb) where costing upwards of $1000 each....
Or lets talk about graphics cards a few years ago a gtx8800 ultra costed $1000 each...I am a gamer for almost 20 years and you cannot imagine(the youngest of you) how expensive high end gaming was back in the days...

I still remember the orchid righteus 3d(my first 3d card!! ) and my twin 3dfx voodoo 2 12mb! cards i worked for months to acquire !!

But nowdays even if you are in the lowest economic class if you work you can easily buy at least a decent computer.So instead fighting in the forums go and get a part time job.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Okay, First, Learn how to spell my name TehPaws3D How in hell did you get Tech?

Second, If it's so easy, To create these car models, Where is your proof? I"m getting slightly pissed off with you, It's not like you can slap a car Which remind you was RENDERED. Into a game, And put tires on it and say "Off yeh go!?" No, It doesn't work that way, You have to make sure it works WITH THE PHYSICS And then you have to make all the setup options, And make sure it handles to "Sim" reality.

Third, The cars in game do not run off DDS, They run off VOB. Having two files would be most likely carnage in the files / engine of LFS.

WELL TEHPAWS3D first calm down.Second you are wrong on many many things.

Actually as i said before YES IT IS SO EASY.I am not talking making new physics for the existing cars-they are perfect.
All i say is replace the low poly .dds (direct draw surface ) of the existing cars with those super high polygon masterpieces.

Instead accusing somebody for trying his best to help the game make some study and check the site i keep talking about.LFSMODS.There are there many cars(not perfect by any means of imagination) that you simply replace the original dds files for the model of the body and the dds for the interiors.

Physics/tires/suspensions all these are not been touched by anybody!

Now you get it man ? Physics will stay (for the existing cars) untounched.

Only the model of the car will be replaced with those masterpieces models.

Also have in mind if the contest i keep ranting about was actually made eventually users could make models almost if not as good.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Forth, You are a DEMO, User, Meaning you don't know what 80% of the cars are and 93% of the tracks! If you want to support the devs and then maybe, Just maybe. They would put your super terrific high car models in the game. And my computer, Nvidia 8400 GS with 2.20 GHZ could manage 1,000,000 polygons moving at 50 MPH in a full field, You're talking about, Wait for it. 32,000,000 + Track Polygons! That's over 20 million! That's out of your mind! Plus the physics calculations!

That's not saying all computers can't do this, But i'm not one for spending 1000 - 2000$ just to play LFS, Hell no.

And lillsnortan ..? What are you talking about?

By your tone you are telling me that if someone is a demo user he must go to hell or suffer a simiral terrible fate ?
But now really i have been playing Lfs from time to time for years on my brothers sim rig.Buying a second license and not be able to play it properly...(with a g25 and having a chassis with a car chair...) is not the same.
I did make this account through because i wanted to speak about a couple of things.I see that what was a few years back years ahead of its time it is slowly but steadily declining.Its not that the devs do not try-actually for 3 people to come so far is nothing sort of a feat by itself.

But devs nowdays if they don't have enough money and resourses try to think outside the "box " for example as isi did with rfactor by having user made content.
Another way is to "buy" some models and track objects and have your development time reduced to a third of the time it will take you to make all those stuff yourself.

Also the above way is incredibly "cheap" .To hire a modeler and texturer and make those cars he would have to work almost for a year and ask 20-$25000 for his work....You can buy those models from the marketplace and use them for $1000-2000 and that is a steal my friends.

Think it this way for $1000-2000 the devs can have all the cars updated and having months or even years of work immediately completed.

Also about the effect on perfomance.Those models even through they are 500.000-1.000.000 polygons when saved to other formats like dds they can have the polygons reduced.So you can change in the game option from low (wich will have low polys models of those cars with a couple of thousand polys only 5000-10.000) a medium choice with 50000-100.000 and a high choice with full polygon numbers.

And a last thing.Not wanting to sound like a jerk but your computer is prehistoric.A 8400 is not good even to type worlds...! As i said earlier for a $1000 you can find on ebay gaming i7's computers.....

And even if you are that tight budgeted spending $1000 for something that will last you at least another 3-4 years are peanuts.

So stop whining (unless you are a 13 year old waiting for his weekly pocketmoney ....But even in that case try to find a...job )

Quote from der butz :

...you have to notice that "the Devs" would have to pay much much more for those models because they'll earn money selling a game that has those models in it.

Personally I'd like to keep my slow dual core 2333MHz Rig with the crummy 4850, two lousy gigs of RAM and the single silent fan a bit longer, so no million poly cars for me, thanks.

I always wonder why so many people (demo or not) cry for new content but don't do anything themselves. There has been a development pause of two years for us normal customers, why have only a few people started modding lfs, and none of them has done it properly?
Why not simply make a proper model and give it to the mighty ones, hoping that they'll simply put it in the game?

greetz

der butz

PS: I know that modding is an unwanted topic here and I do not want to encourage people to reverse engineer lfs, the stuff I wrote above is just a statement towards some whinging lazy people.

Hi there ! Everybody that buy those models has the right to use them in any way he wants as they make them to sell them to game designers....

As i said before althrough they have 500.000-1.000000 polygons each the could be saved in dds at 3 sizes.One size with full polygons and the other two with reduced numbers so people with older pc's can choose the lower quality models....

Quote from TehPaws3D :

It's not like you can just drag and drop some rendered masterpiece into a game, You have to down size it a little as we are running with DX8. We might even upgrade to DX10 or DX9 on the patch, But that's a long shot, Those high detailed cars are probably cars that have taken days or hours to render, And you can't put that car in the game. It'd look so out of place it's not even funny, Plus you have to have it low quality too so the lower end computers have some what of a chance. You have to make sure it's not glitching, Alot of stuff.

Techpaws3d actually you can put those masterpieces easily in the game.They are 3d studio files and all you have to do is save/convert them to dds format something that can be easily done with a converter...

You don't have to upgrade to newer dx versions as those cars simply have extreme polygon numbers and very high resolutions textures.

And for older computer you can simply decrease the polygon quantity and save the car on another dds file.Depending of the quality option for cars chosen in the option the game could use a low -medium or high polygon number model.And about glitches -there are none.Those models are full my friend...Glitches occur when models are unfinished and have wrong joints,textures that do not much or unfinished interiors.Those cars are PERFECTLY MODELED SO there is no fear for a single glitch !

Quote from TehPaws3D :

It's not about the quality it's about the quantity, Sure, You have some guys that could make super high detailed cars for LFS, Which is awesome, But how do they know what power the engine is, How do they know how to "Make it fair" So you don't have one car used because it's got so many advantages. Then you have the problem if it's freetime creators then you could have hundreds or thousands of useless car models that one a selected few use. Then you have the hundreds of skins and setups that could accompany it, And we aren't talking about replacing a FZR with a Porsche, Cause we already have illegal VOB. mods. We're talking about a physical NEW car.



True, We could have 150 for all we care, But it causes to much clutter for three people to work on, You'll have glitches that are seldom ever fixed, Graphic glitches, All sorts, If you get much more cars and tracks, Then you basically are turning LFS a standby mode. Until they get more people working with them, Or more people Helping, Or raise the price, Make LFS 50$ for S2 and 25$ for S1, That could atleast put 5 people working on it.



Yes but that's all you know, They could have a few new cars waiting that aren't even named, Or have anything to preview, And even if it's just ONE car, I answered it above, It's most likely not going to be glitchy at all, Allowing them to nicely move on to other cars/tracks, And what do you expect three people to do.. They have lives too..



Yeah, But what's the problem with the ones we have, Sure, It's not alot, But it will improve.



I for one don't want newer models, It's going to cause me to have to download more.. And then you have the millions of possible models.. So i -1 this idea, They are going fine.

Techpaws3d as i said previously those models are PERFECT by any means of imagination.They have NO glitches.

Also no physics are going to be touched.Just the basic models replaced with those incredible ones.
For the cars that are not featured already in lfs the physics will be made by the devs.

Its a real pity if those models are not used.

People i played lfs from time to time for years on my brother sim rig.I made the demo account so i can post here.The core of lfs is incredible.We would not be here if it wasn't.But the game has started to show its age and many people that see it they dismiss it before even giving it a chance and discover how amazing game it is.With the above high quality cars lfs can have a new breath of life for literary nothing.....

And for people that are afraid about perfomance have in mind that GT5 "Premium cars" are made by around 300-350.000 polygons each and the game can run with a grid of 16 cars at 60 frames .

Most 3d models from above have around 500.000-1.000.000 polygons but the huge difference from the ps3 is that on the pc you can adjust the graphics.On a decent computer you can easily play with a 16 or 32 car grid with 60-100 frames.On older computers reducing the quality of the cars will keep the game smooth as silk..

(Have in mind that the ps3 has 7 working cores of 3.2ghz each with only 256 kb cache memory each core,a 7800 gtx card with 256mb graphics memory and 256 of main system memory- With around $1000 you can find on ebay i7 gaming computers with 6gb of memory and a decent 285gtx card.)

A i7 by the way has 4 main cores of 2.66-3.33 with 3mb of cache each core and every i7 has 8-12 additional sub cores.Add to that 6 gb of memory and that a 285 gtx card is 6 times faster than a 7800gtx that means even with full quality you can play with 1920x1200 with max aa and af with a 32 car grid at over 60-100 frames easily

Look we are waiting for ...the last 5 years for new content and probably almost 2.5 years for....one more car...the scirocco....Just the work needed on the existing cars to get them updated almost stops any chance to see more cars...Maybe we will see 2-3 more cars but that in the best case scenario.

I made many times the proposal of giving a chance to some very talented users here to help the devs by making some high quality car models for the existing cars and maybe a few cars the devs tell them to model.With that way and having a contest so only the best models get picked there would be no problem as far as quality and as far as physics they would not be touched.
The devs keep refusing this proposal.

The 3d marketplace has some incredible astonishing car models complete with some stunning interiors.Honestly i did not even know such quality car models for sale existed until today.Some of those models give the so called "premium " cars of Gt5 (they supposedly need 1 month to model each) a run for their money...

For less than $2000 all the current cars can be updated with some incredible models(with the badges removed ofcourse ) .And have an additional dozen of new cars that would never been possible to have.

Physics for the current cars will stay the same and for the new cars only the devs will work on them.

Come on now Scawen,Victor and Eric this is a great chance to bring lfs to the next level !

This will improve lfs by light years and will live you time to work on physics/tracks and maybe weather effects...

I think you don't understand.Those $100-150 for each cars are property rights.The devs can use those cars as they want as they "buy" it.You are not going to pay yourself that money to have those cars installed.The devs can buy them and integrade them in lfs immediately.The original authors don't care if Scawen,Victor and Eric make $100.000 more because they used those cars to update their game.Understand now ?

People are willing to model for free but Scawen ,Victor and Eric keep refusing The reason they give is that they are afraid about the quality of the content.That is not really a problem as i explained by making contest only top notch stuff will get used...

But now there is no excuse.Those cars models are incredible and with work done only on physics the devs can add many more cars in a matter of a few weeks.

We are all waiting for almost 5 years for new content.We are waiting for ....ahem one car,the scirocco for almost 2.5 years....

In that 3d market there are a few dozen triple AAA quality car models with fully modeled interiors ready to be used for literary peanuts....

I didn't even knew such incredible quality models existed for sale to be honest.

Again if Scawen,Victor and Eric read this take those MODELS !!!!

I am talking for game development costs............

Large companies shed a shitload of money to make a game.(For example killzone 2 costed around $ 50.000.000 .

Indy developers do not have that much amount of money.But spending $1000 for updating the existing models with super detailed versions and with another

$1000 adding another dozen of cars each a steal for them.The physics for the current cars would stay unchanged and if they add new cars they would only have to adjust their physics as models and interiors would be fully modeled.

When there are thousands of lfs players starving for some new content how much does it cost to the devs to update their dated looking cars with ultra high detail cars and double the amount of cars with only having to work on physics ? (There are currently 20000-25000 lfs s2 players that payed $40 each so spending $1000-$2000 for those cars are literary a steal.

Hi there!
I asked many times here if there was a chance some modding would be allowed to help the development of lfs,for example contests to remake the current cars with high quality models of the existing real cars(minus the badges ofcourse ).Also upcoming cars models could be modeled again in contests with specified cars for modding.

I know the devs are skeptical about this but i am certain it could help them as it would save them countless of modeling hours...

In any case I just recently found an altenative way and that is a 3d model marketplace..

Please if Scawen ,Victor and Eric ,if you read this check the following site

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Vehicle/Car

-There are dozens of incredibly amazing models complete with interiors.You can buy them for very logical prices(for 100-150 euros each but have in mind their quality gives a run for their money even to the "premium Gt5" models....)

-Also all real cars featured in lfs are there in mind boggling details
some examples :
http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-m ... 3d-911-turbo-model/488135

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-m ... dard-materials-car/457776

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/228091

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/551792

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/554840

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/544691

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/530295

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/532862

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/3ds-max-rx7/485495

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/maya-toyota-supra/428586

http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-m ... lica-1991-3d-model/249217

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

... I think the devs are just scared that releasing the source of the game might cause someone to f*** up the physics of the game or something. Maybe they think the first guy they release the source to is going to make it public so that people will start pirating it on torrent sites or something. To be honest, I wouldn't want someone to d!ck around with the SRC of something I sell either.

But i posted here countless times asking the devs to simply make contest for people to make high quality models(minus the badges) for the existing cars or for upcoming cars.The same with tracks make contest for the best track update or for the best track and leave the final decision of what to integrade in the actual game to the devs themselves.That way they don't have to release the sourse code and physics are still going to be handled by themselves.Only the models would be changed and after a few months some incredible models will be made.

All the above by simply making a contest mention in the main page of lfs.

People would not ask for money.The only thing they would ask is a mention in the credits section.This way the devs don't have any reason to be afraid of anything..
i started posting in lfs forums after many years because its a pity that we have many talented modelers and textures (just take a look at LFSMODS and have in mind most models there are work of a few days each and the modders that made them knew that most people wont try them because they do not want to replace the main files) and the devs do not use their help.

There are even 3d marketplaces that sell for reasonable prices some amazing car models.....

Just have a look here :
http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Vehicle/Car

Honestly i cannot believe that for $ 100-150 you can get some ultra detailed car models full with their interiors that are 10000 times better looking than the current models .

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

They can do that even if the demo has a trial period that expires in 30 days.

This is already the best, if not one of the best racing sims on the market, and doesn't require a monthly subscription. You know, when people like a game, they normally tend to BUY the game that they like. Now I know there are a few lowlife idiots out there who like to torrent games off the internet as apposed to paying for them, but for the most part, people pay for games they want. Just saying.

No they can't.You see most people may try the game with a crappy wheel or even a ...gasp keyboard !! They may eventually buy a decent steering wheel and then they are going to try some simulators with it.If they have lfs installed on their pc they may go the extra step and buy it.Also as i said before the game as incredible as it is on physics its really behind on other stuff.If a new,lets say vastly superior version comes up(With dx9 render,shaders,bloom,hdr etc..),a lot of people will be impressed or satisfied with the progress lfs has shown and decide finally to try it.If they have deleted the game do you think they are going to constantly check for newer versions ? I think not.And the only game that has monthly suscription is i-racing and a lot of people have given up on it even through it has improved hugely.

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

soooooo... Demo users have to pay to maintain servers, but the developers don't have to get paid to for developing this game?

You know, I was one of those people supporting a demo without more restrictions, but your comment kinda pissed me off. :gnasher:

Some demo users have private servers they pay a shitload of money to keep running and have on them servers of various games.Having a demo server were people will join when trying the demo will give potential buyers a great experience of the full game and without having the developers to keep running servers by themselves.So those people help the developers to advertise their product yet you are pissed .ok...

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

I am one of the people who thinks that the demo shouldn't be restricted, but as a software developer, I believe that the 3 developers have every right in the world to make as much money from their investment as they want. What the f*** does how much money they "need" have to do with anything??? THIS IS A F***ING BUSINESS!!! This isn't Government assistance for sh!t sake! What these people do with their own money is their business!

I find it reprehensible of you to even to say something like "And on another matter lfs is being programmed by 3 people.How much money do they need to keep developing?" AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY WANT!!!! We aren't buying the game so the developers can hurry up and make S3, we're buying the game because WE LIKE THE GAME WE BOUGHT!! The developers have no obligation to KISS YOUR ASS, either you like the game or you dont! If you don't like the game, DON'T BUY IT! What the hell do you mean "how much money do they "need" to continue developing? What the hell do you care?

The licenses aren't annual subscriptions, and you only have to pay for them one time.

So you are a software developer ? Yeah right and i am the toothfairy.You sound like an angry 13 year old.
I do hope the devs sell as much licenses as they can.They made something good and they deserve to gain something from it.Other people release shit%$% and gain money so when people make something good they deserve to gain money.BUT WHAT I CONSTANTLY READ IN THESE forums is bul#$%$ that the devs cannot continue developing if more people do not buy s2 lisenses or that they cannot get more people to help them because they do not have money....I am sick of those excuses.For two reasons.First they probably earned enough to not have to work for the next 10 years and keep a high lifestyle(With the recent economic crysis many people barely get 20.000 income yearly...)
And second many many people here tried and ARE willing to give free help to the devs(for example models of cars and tracks) for nothing.The only thing they would ask is a mention in the credits...

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

Big companies like EA and Activision can afford to go down on the price due to merchandising. Big companies actually have copies of their games on store shelves, therefore, It becomes essential for distributors to lower the prices to the store they are selling to after a while, in order to increase the demand for their product. Indie developers typically can't afford, or have no Idea how to do that.

I hope one day there will be box copies of this game available in stores. Seems like a good idea to me.

Sorry for reviving this conversation but what the hell are you smoking man ?
Are you out of your #%$#% mind ? A demo is a demo.If people buy it then that would help the developers.If they keep it on their hard drives and race from time to time they will have the game on their mind and may speak about it in forums or to their friends.The advertisement they do brings more people to test and talk about lfs and that is a good thing.Also some people eventually if they feel the game has improved enough or they buy expensive equipment they may decide to buy the game.

What the hell is your problem if people play the demo on their private servers they PAY TO MAINTAIN ??

And on another matter lfs is being programmed by 3 people.How much money do they need to keep developing ? There are at least 20.000 subscribers with each having paid around $ 20-40 .So common now stop this bullshiting##%@ or do you get commisions from suscribers ?

I cannot believe some of the responses i read in this thread....I played lfs for years on my brother sim rig but i made an account only recently so i can post here.Why ? Because i believe lfs can become incredible if only the stance of the developers against user help (by making models of cars and tracks) is changed.

Anyway lfs is a simulation.It SHOULD have an unrestricted demo.Most people here learn about a realistic simulation and decide to try it.Some will like it,some will find that it comes short on many things.In any case because it is unrestricted a lot of people play on the demo servers and after they realize how good and fun it is they decide to become licensed members.There are people that played lfs for years on demo servers until they decided to buy it.Some people didn't have good equipment to justify buying the game.(For example having a crappy wheel is not the same with having a g25/g27 or fanatec 911 turbo wheel were you get the best with its clutch and h shifter) .

If you restrict the demo than i quarantee you many future buyers will be lost.As it is there are thousands of people that have lfs installed on their computers and someday they may decide to buy it.Some because they feel the game was improved enough to justify buying it,some because they have some money to spare,some because they feel they are pro drivers and want to move to other faster cars and tracks.

Also another note.People that moan about lfs is too hardware demanding are forgeting that lfs is still dx8 based and it runs incredibly fast on everything that is around the last 4 years and was bought for at least $ 1000.A $1000 pc is a dirt cheap and you can use it for pretty much anything(movies,world,imaging,internet,mirc,phoning and yes playing with older games)
If you complain why you get below 30 or below 60 frames on your $400 pc you bought from the grocery store than you must get a job.

My 3 and a half years old pc (E6700 2.66 C2Duo Oc at 3Ghz,4gb xms pc6400,gf 8800 ultra and a msi diamond mb ) runs the game at 1920x1200 with aa and af with a 16 car grid at over 100-120 fps !!!!!

You can find from many powersellers on Ebay for 1000-1200 ready builded gaming i7 or even quad cores that would run lfs at max graphics at 300 + frames...

The game is already too graphically dated and probably this is the primary reason why many people do not buy it.I have many friends that their initial impression of lfs was bad but when they played it on my brothers sim rig they absolutely loved it.( because they got passed the graphics ....)

Quote from DieKolkrabe :

Don't forget system shock 2

AMAZING game even today

It is implied ! (There are some hd texture and model updates too ! )

Also don't forget other amazing games made by these people like deus ex (There is a dx9-10 render update,there are more complex maps updates,hd textures,an hdr plugin-enbseries and even some hd models.... )
i played the original deus ex at least 3 times and i am thinking replaying it as it looks fantastic with the updates...)

And ofcourse we have the thief series with my favourite being 3 deadly shadows.

Tribes Vengeance was nice too with a great story.(I just wish the someday make a terranova remake as irrational has the only remaining people that made that game.

And don't forget Bioshock...and Anachronox and last but not least....the current UFO remake ! (Its made with another company as the main devs but many people from irrational (ex looking glass stuff) are working with them and helping them.

Quote from Amynue :

Duke Nukem Forever is predicted for 2011 so it seems like we are going to have a nice race between LFS and DNF Can't wait for both. I spent many hours with Duke Nukem Time to Kill at PSX, great game. 10 years have passed and I still remember some parts of the maps like I would play it yesterday :hypnotize

You mean you didn't play the game on pc in 1996... ? Omg you lost 1st person shooter history! It was 100 times better on pc....with 1000 total conversions...

Well actually there were better games at that time and even years before....

In 1991 looking glass was working on a 3d rpg called ultima underword.It was 2.5d with textured walls,floors and ceilings and had a lot of story and hundreds of npc's to interact with.John Carmack saw this game in a game
show and locked himself for 6 months and made wolf 3d...(But the worlds real first 3d shooter was by looking glass....)
In 1994 looking glass (the company was closed in 2000 and some employes formed irrational games and some worked in ion storm ) released a game called system shock.I was the first 3d shooter were you could lean left and right ,had mouse support,had full svga graphics ,full voice overs,a complex interface,huge interconnected world and full motion fmv....And no pc could play it too...
Strife in 1995 was a doom clone(on doom engine! ) with a great story and open world.
Also an incredible other game was cybermage darklight awakening.It literraly started like shit&^% and then in the middle of the game as by miracle you arrived in a huge open blade runner style city with hundreds of npc's,police patrols and an incredible story and i was like...why they didn't remove the crap&^* in the first half...Sadly noone exept reviewers played the game to reach that staggering part....
Also don't forget Tekwar a nice game with an open world based on shatners tekwar and build with the build duke nukem's engine....

And in 1996 we had quake -the first full 3d shooter,Looking glass mind boggling Terranova-Strike Force Centauri....( A game since then wish someone remakes it...Irrational made a spiritual succesor -Tribes Vengeance-an incredible game by itself but it was based on a completely different story ) and last but not least Duke nukem...As single player was ok...but i still remember the fun i had over lan and modem play...

I'll give this a close look and give it a shot when it is released.Being made by Cunos(stefano) i bet it will be extremely realistic...But Nurburing with a F10 ?

Can't wait!

Emm were exactly this thread moved from lfs being in "limbo" development to a font war ?