great work!
some difficult stuff, quite nice.

you might want to check:

http://lfs.finalgear.com/modules/Layouts/layout.php?layout=8
both download buttons :
The requested URL /rar.rar was not found on this server.

my bet is the archive isn't called rar.rar.

http://lfs.finalgear.com/modules/skins/skin.php?skin=28
Firefox can't find the server at filetodo.rar.
Filetodo pretty much says it all i guess .

Cheers!

I found this on the HDD, thought i'd share it.

It's only for BL1 but i think i'll make some of these, it has really helped me at learning to drive the whole track, not only the optimum line.

Basically, the optimum line and the places you're used to be are now blocked. Imagine there's another car there, see how you handle the turns. And the straights .

I strongly advise watching the replay (it's just showing the track, rb4 default hard track setup, driven by mouse since my wheel wasn't attached to the desk and i was too lazy) so you will know what to expect.

Feel free to suggest any modifications.

Quote from imthebestracerthereis :

Is it just a sign that tells you what way? People (if going backwards) should see "Wrong Way"

Probably, if i correctly understand what you mean.
When you shift-s or mid-join a race, while still in your pit, you'll see which way you should head out when exiting your pit.
Look on the wall in front of the pits. If that white arrow points left, go left.
Otherwise go right.

This will avoid you getting that 'wrong way' message.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

If youre gonna use an arrow, toss it out in the middle of the lane so its easy to see from any vehicle. No use in making different layouts for each car just so you can see

Well, excuse me then, but seems my english skills seem not to be as good as i thought they were.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

I however elected to place it further out where it would be more visible, and used a curved arrow to reduce the possibility of mistaking the direction.

I've tried all three curved arrows at different distances, but to me it seemed that the straight arrow would be the best.
Your screenshot: width=1214 height=744, you put the arrow further away.
I'm using 1024x768, i put it closer.

Anyway...switching your view just to see which way to go isn't an option. Also, i've tried all the cars, and from inside a: rb4 lx6 fxr or xrr you still have problems seeing chalk lines.

I'd go with some kind of signs...see screenshot.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

A brain does tick inside this skull of mine.

I'm very sorry to hear that , i don't know how a continuously ticking sound like that doesn't drive you mad.

I appreciate your comment though.

Cheers!

and an all-in-one archive.

one more

number or attachements limited...

There are at least two threads that i know of in the suggestions area, but until something can be done by other means, here's something that i hope will help. It's already helping me anyway.

The problem:
- sometimes the player won't know which way to exit the pits
- possible solutions:
- chalk lines
- marshalls
- cones, signs, etc...

I went for some 'left/right signs' (see screenshot) because i could place them on (almost) all tracks so it would be a familiar view, they won't mess with the framerate, and they're in a place they cannot be hit and thrown on the track.
Chalk lines are the next best thing imo, but due to different video cards, resolutions, FOV's and even views people use, i found it quite difficult to make a layout based on chalk arrows that would satisfy everyone.
Either you cannot see the lines because they're too far, either too close and get obscured by the intakes/bonnets of some cars (rb4, lx6 and a few others).
Marshalls would clutter up the pit area too much imo.

These missing tracks : SC2(R), SC3(R), FE6(R), FE7(R) don't have a pit area, or at least not one i could find either by going around the track or by shift-s.

Currently missing are all variations of KY, but i'm working on those, will add them as soon as they're done.

Anyway, here's stuff...

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

No use in making different layouts for each car just so you can see

i noticed that from inside a rb4 with high setup you cannot see the arrows from layout1. so i suggested layout2 for every car. how come you understood it's just for rb4 , i have no idea .

if it were up to me, i'd use layout1. if you select rb4 then just hit 'v' to get the wheels only view so you can see the arrows, and then while driving out of the pits hit 'v' a couple more times to get to your normal view-point. the rb4 is the only car from which you cannot see the arrows from layout 1, as it has quite a tall intake vent on the hood (or whatever it's called).

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :

If youre gonna use an arrow, toss it out in the middle of the lane so its easy to see from any vehicle.

Quote from apo3d :

...
I've tried placing the arrows further from the pits but they become too hard to see. Screenshot with this included.
...

Last edited by apo3d, Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:31.

I must admit i like the first layout a lot more, but if you by any chance use Rb4 with a high suspension (rally set for example) you won't see the arrows.
So here's a remake, using the 'arrow2' this time...
Also screenshots from pit1 and pit2 with rb4 rallyx setup, and one from a fzr.

I've tried placing the arrows further from the pits but they become too hard to see. Screenshot with this included.

I've tried keeping the object count very low, but if you put more arrows sideways of each pit exit then it will be even easier to notice it (did this, goes around 40 objects, now there's just one arrow for each pit), while at the same time adding a lot of arrows to the pit area, which i've tried to avoid.

edit: removed layout, working on it.

Last edited by apo3d, Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:42.

Seems we've already found some solutions to the problem.
I think chalk arrows are the simplest and best idea, no framerate drops,
at least not for me.

Here's my solution for BL1 and BL1R (20 objects each).
Also included downsized screenshots (also saved at 50% but you'll see what you need to see).
Only thing left would be now would be to convince server admins to use such layouts as a default layout, until a better solution arises at least.

And while i was at it, i made a fullhelp layout. Unfortunately it's useless, being for BL1 only, but i think this would help for any other track.
I thought using normal chalk lines to define slow-down areas would come in handy (just like it does in RL ) and also added some arrows to announce the next turn. I'm not sure if it's perfect, give it a try, but remember you already know the track so you'll find those either offset or useless or even worse - hindering.Anyway,i've included a screenshot for this too.

edit: removed pithelp layout

Last edited by apo3d, Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:32.

The requested URL /viewpage.php was not found on this server.

all the links give 404 not found. can you please post the .lyt files here ?

i know it's been a while...:
Not Found

KFWebServer/3.0.1 Windows XP at http://shufny.dnsalias.com Port 80


could anybody please attach it in a post?

Quote from noel_cr :

Hi!
Today, I was boring and i made this layout.

I've laughed for a couple of minutes...

Will try the layout a bit later, if i'll like it i'll just wish you're boring more often!

You meant so say you were bored, not boring, didn't you ?

I'm glad you guys posted some valid arguments.

Still, I'd like to share this...I had a chat with a friend of mine who has absolutely nothing, and i mean nothing to do cars. For him, cars get you from a to b have four wheels a round thing and three funny pedals. Bikes only have two, why would you need three illepall ?!. I just told him this is not an arcade, but a simulator, his instant reply was something like this:
- the community of a game is still made mostly out of 'gamers' so when given the chance they will make a lot of crap, not even close to anything real -

Well this applies to any simulator, a plane simulator, a submarine simulator, a spinning circle on a stick simulator even!

Later I tried imagining what -I- would actually do if I'd have an editor. Hummmmm . Well, I for one would like more 4wd cars. Good. I also love the Wrx-STI. Good. So 3dstudio max, WRX-Sti 3d-model done. Adobe Photoshop (or search skin_x) and i've also got a skin. Awesome. How about the engine/handling? Suppose i just write that in a text file and the game knows what to do with it. Well now.... Here's the problem. Suppose i'd have a lot of technical specs and so on...I've never driven an STi, how would i know if it 'feels' like one?

I know there are a lot of people here that did (or maybe still do) get a chance to know what that's supposed to feel like, but unless they get together and suggest something directly, the rest are stuck with (eventually) a new 3d model and maybe a new skin but with let's say FXR's specs.

In the case of tracks , it's very complicated to -create- something entertaining but not consuming and simply re-creating real tracks becomes a copyright issue.

And managing the mods is a dev nightmare, i never tried looking at this from that point of view.

So definetly no cars, maybe, just -maybe- submitting 3d-models.
Definetly no tracks, but again mabye, just -maybe- submitting ideas, designs.
So what's left?
Game physics and mechanics - definetly a nono, no 'maybe' here.
Textures - check out the sand / snow tracks .
Sounds - there's something on this too,though i think it's outdated due to the last patch.
...was that all? Pretty much yes.
Not actually, LFS DOES have an autocross editor. I wouldn't a call it a track editor. Well, i've noticed cones, walls, tires, even a ramp. Awesome. And i DO mean -awesome-.

Therefore the only suggestion i still have is to improve the autocross editor .
I've used it and this is what i'd really love to see there:
-more checkpoints, not just three.
-less important, but still interesting, would be the ability to set two different paths for the same start/finish (think at a final stage of some rally: two cars compete for two laps at the same time on the same track but on different routes, the second lap's path of each car being the first lap's path of the other car)

Last edited by apo3d, Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:27.

great suggestion imo.
i'd rather go for the white arrows, either the 'turn left/right' or a set of go forward arrows on the pit lane, facing the right direction (from the same autocross editor), i'm not sure but i think it would also be simpler than to have countless guys pointing a direction although nobody's there to see them most of the time.i'd feel sorry for them .
And simply flipping the arrow (not sure how the objects are marked in the memory) if the track code ends with R .

This is a great suggestion!
I've had the same problem, but it was a late night and i was too lazy to post it here. I have two sound cards, one for playing music all the time in the room and one for the headset.

Quote from Fischfix :

i support your effort, and i think you are right.
(i just want to add GP2 and GP3 which had a great modding comunity as well)

i didn't get to play any of those, that's why there's no mention of them

Quote from Fischfix :

yep they were all (almost) singleplayer oriented, but that is because of the technical evolution of the internet...

BUT (and this but is really huge, i mean huger then bushs incompetence)

you will not find not much ear in this or any lfs forum, because most of the people stick to the opinion of the devs, which is: modding won't be good for the game at this phase of it.

i think the damage model is far off from finished, as well as the aero-model so i think it would not make sens to have new cars because they will need a full rework if there is something changing which the devs can't guarantee if its not one of their cars. BUT i don't see any reason why they don't take in some new tracks evey now and then, produced by the community...

I was suggesting this for sometime in the future of course. New cars are worthless compared to say having a car made out of parts that can fly off, bend, break...

Here's an interesting thing i've just found...

Unofficial Add-ons database http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=2928

Amongst those, there's a snow mod with a lot of positive comments. So this proves i'm not illepall. Not totally at least .

One more thing i've found to be very very interesting:
AutoCross Layouts database
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=8939

The second proves that although there are a lot of autocross layouts made, somebody took the time to say 'this is nice,this is crap' and just put the nice ones in a list. I might be wrong though, but will start checking those out very soon.

Quote from Fischfix :

anyway, keep up your article writing! sometimes we will get:....

it isn't the first time i'm advised to write in smaller blocks or maybe start my post with an index(table of contents)

I totally disagree with this kind of attitude, too many people to quote.

Although you might think computer games tend to give you this kind of attitude:
- omg i have a g25, let me see what i can learn to do with my bmw!!!
i'd like to say that it had the total opposite for me.
I don't have a g25 , i wish i had one though. just a normal ff wheel with two pedals. In lfs i learned how to perform threshold braking and trail braking.

I just want to mention that if i didn't know how to threshold brake, i would've rear ended somebody a few days earlier. I do admit i was speeding (doing about 60km/h in a city), but he was way in front of me and going quite slow. He came to a sudden stop, i panniced and slammed the breakes then remembered to release the damn pedal. to there was a short *screetch* and then a nice stop at under 1m from him. I couldn't see his numberplate anymore (placed low on the bumber).
Conclusion? +1 to sim games , got a lot to learn.

p.s. i've got an autocross layout for learning lateral parking .

Last edited by apo3d, Thu, 18 Jan 2007 20:21.

this feels the right place to ask this...
wasn't there a ramp in the autocross editor?
i'm pretty sure i saw some replays of two-wheel driving, so it must have been.
am i blind, because i can't find it in the list of objects...

Quote from Linsen :

..where maybe the devs would decide which mod should actually become available...

i'm not sure if i said that in the main post, but i must say this is one of the best ways to deal with this. although at some point it might mean dev's attention being drawn to mod testing , thus no time actually spared, it would guarantee the quality.
This is actually hard to acomplish, mainly because the mod either:
1. has to be submitted to the devs
2. is already out there and a group of people might like it,so even though devs will vote against it, what would unavailable mean? not included in the main download?

ps and offtopic: wasn't there a ramp amongst the objects on the autocross area?!

Funny thing, now that you said this, i actually see why you guys don't agree with modding yet. Well, one can still hope (for the community to get big enough), right?

True, it does go down to modding, but not just car modding. I've used cars/tracks as an example for the whole idea.
Plus i don't agree with people that only read last posts, or that have bad skim-reading skills .
What i still don't understand is why you guys are so biased against modding. I'm guessing you're imagining a heap of cars / tracks in your menu, but what i'm thinking of is something totally different.
If you want to download a user-made car / track, there has to be a way to put it in an additional menu or access it via command line, without overwriting the pure cars/tracks. Same goes for joining a non-pure server.
If you'd never join such a server and never download any additional material, there would be nothing changed. I really don't see what's so bad with simply having the opportunity to do such a thing, while still having the option NOT to.
I think i tried rFactor demo, at least i remember i downloaded something that was supposed to be a 'community-made' type of game and the only thing i remember was the arcade feeling i had. I've played it for maybe 10 minutes just to make sure i'm right about the arcade part. I'll download it again and see if that's the one and say something about it.
Only game i can think of that's using this 'open' way is Second Life. Seems to me it's a huge success. I don't have the time to play it, but i honestly would just for the pleasure of things like designing and placing my own chair in the house i designed myself.
Maybe it's just me...

edit: Oh, forgot to mention this...i am very pleased with LFS, i just felt i should say this. Still have my flame-proof pants on (dunno who said this, but it seems funny as hell to me), i will always agree with stating an opinion no matter how wrong / stupid / whatever others may think it is.

Last edited by apo3d, Thu, 18 Jan 2007 15:52.

Quote from Linsen :

I haven't read the post entirely (lol)

thanks for your opinion then