why do you think the kyoto oval is banked 31 degrees or however much it is? if the oval was flat, theres no way you could take the turns at such high speeds (200 mph+)

well thats why i didn't find it..i thought it would be stickied lol


fast replies guys.

Ummm what did it do? I can't even find the thread in the forums about it...I feel so stupid. I looked in every forum lol.

Quote from simon2 :

I think that you should be abel to stole the engine if you releases the cluch without giving gas/to fast, and the indicators should not turn of it you hit something.

...its "stall"

"Where the hell does this long pole go"
"I don't know man see if it fits in the gas tank"
"No you jerk its obviously a long screwdriver for reaching under the car"
"Forget about that, what is this cloth on the track for?"
"FOR THE LAST TIME, I DON'T KNOW, WE JUST GOT OUT OF PIT SCHOOL!"
"Alright relax...wait a minute...isn't pit lane over THERE?"

Quote from bbman :

Yeah, but I have the option to if I want... And so I do in LfS... That makes the system we have now more realistic, not less... Just because something was left out doesn't make the whole thing wrong (unrealistic), it's just incomplete... And I personally don't think we have to wait that long until it's fixed...

Maybe, but flatshifting every shift in my opinion is more unrealistic than being forced to shift normally. I've already stated that damage modeling is the reason and i agree with the people that said it, i'm just not really sure how long its going to take before it is actuallly implemented.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

...massive quote...

No, you are not a fool because you like a specific genre of music. This also really pisses me off. I wish that music would be the ONE thing that people aren't discriminated against for. Everyone can enjoy at least one genre of music and no one should be made fun of for liking a certain type. I hate the whole "rap vs. rock" or "rock vs. classical" battles. It's all ridiculous if you ask me. So what if you like a certain genre. Everyone is different. So again, no, you are not a fool.

quicksilver's and mcintyrej's are good lol

Quote from bbman :

I have no device in my car that makes it magically cut the throttle when I press the clutch... Seeing as the cars in LfS mostly fall in the same generation as mine, how exactly would it be more realistic when you force the option on?

because although you might have no device that cuts your throttle, i would be willing to bet anything that you don't flat shift. The way LFS does it, it is more unrealistic than just shifting normally

Quote from JTbo :

They already have damage code on place as engines do get damage, they would need only to adjust that to be more sensitive, to level it was earlier and it would take care of such problem, would be very easy to do. However I have found out devs don't tend to make quick fixes for some aspect, they seem to like to make bigger improvements once they start with something so we don't really know when we see some improvement in this matter, however I'm pretty positive that it is not going to be removing option to disable throttle cut as that would mean that game will lose quite big part of 'sim like' behaviour there.

It would be bit same as introducing steering help or antispin, something very arcade like stuff.

I believe best option is to encourage racers to drive properly in first place, similarily like encouraging proper driving in T1. Then sooner or later we might see this issue taken care of by devs properly.

Capitals mean yelling, that is some internet code stuff

Valid points. No one is going to cooperate with the encouragment though...as much as i would like them too.

P.S. I'm using Internet 2.0

Quote from JTbo :

So why do you urge to get game even more unrealistic by requesting forced throttle cut instead of requesting better damage? Certainly putting some damage into it is not too hard job and it would make much more sense than jumping from annoyance to another.

And please, don't yell, it won't help anything here.

ok first, i clearly stated once someone made that suggestion earlier, that i agreed with it and that engine damage would fix this problem. Now the way i see it, the next update isn't coming for a while and if it does, it won't have somehting as big as damage improvements. So how hard is it to eliminate the option to turn it off until engine damage modeling is better?

Second, i wasn't yelling, i was trying to make it clear what my point was. I would have put an exclamation mark at the end if i was yelling

Last edited by ans7812, Thu 5 Jul 2007, 22:24.

Quote from qoncept :

Not many people drive with a manual transmission and no clutch pedal in real life, either. What about people who like playing a 24£ sim as opposed to a 150£ sim (ie, S2 + G25) ?

what are you talking about? you just made my point. No one flat shifts in real life as much as the sim does because their trannys would be shot. thats what the throttle cut option set to "no" does. it flat shifts....a.k.a. your in third gear about to shift to 4th and you're flooring it, then you push in the clutch, and DON'T remove your foot from the accelerator, change gears quickly and let out clutch. Thats what the sim does and if this happened in real life on every shift, people would be at the repair shop every 2 weeks.


BOTTOM LINE: IT'S NOT REALISTIC UNTIL ENGINE DAMAGE IS MODELED MORE EFFICIENTLY

Driver: "Who photoshopped the flame behind my car?!"

Quote from JTbo :

No, it is not, but at least we can now choose if we are realistic drivers or not. Also I'm really hoping to see new damage updates soon specially to see these issues fixed, but we never know when that is going to happen, until then we can se Boooooo to all flat shifters

lol i guess, but its just something else that makes LFS less realistic and could easily be fixed.

Quote from JTbo :

....That would not be realistic at all....,

but flat-shifting all the time is? i think not.



sry for double post

UPDATE: Just completed another experiment on the strip. Used, FZR, XRT, FOX, LX6 and RAC. Did COUNTLESS trials to ensure accuracy and eliminate variables. In EACH car, the improvements were at LEAST .1 seconds greater with throttle cut DISABLED. Cars with turbo chargers were able to achieve times upwards of .4 seconds greater with throttle cut DISABLED. This means that flat-shifting in LFS DOES affect speed in a straight and according to my previous test, around a track.

Quote from JTbo :

And what will happen if throttle cut is removed? Even more people will flatshift, I guess, but for current flatshifters that would mean anything at all.

If you did mean that everyone should be forced to use throttle cut...
I prefer doing cutting myself, I don't have semi-auto gearbox equipped car that would do those by itself, so I really don't like to be forced to use such throttle cut or blip by computer, I am the driver and I like to be in control, not some silly computer.

Instead of forcing everyone to use throttle cut proper damage should be introduced and throttle cut and blip helps could be then removed from manual transmission option or perhaps there could be introduction of semi-auto, manual and auto gears with corresponding options available them IRL.

no, i mean they should remove the throttle cut OPTION. so you can't just leave it turned off and flat shift all the time. just remove the whole option.

Quote from mrodgers :

not that folks are actually using the lack of damage to flatshift.

well they are, which is why i am asking to get rid of it.

Simple suggestion. Get rid of the throttle cut option until engine damage is better modeled. Before blatantly stating your opinion, read the thread in the General Forum titled "Throttle Cut" to get more info.

Quote from JTbo :

0.5 seconds mean absolutely nothing to majority of LFS drivers, no gain at all.

....this statement makes no sense at all. maybe you thought i meant 5 HUNDREDTHS of a second. but no, i meant half a second and i don't know what sim you are driving but .5 seconds is a big difference.

Agree with the three above posters. It is necessary for faster laps but unrealistic and should be better controlled when more sophisticated damage modeling is implemented.

Quote from Blackout :

But are you sure you weren't just improving you driving on the second run and the difference was all down to the cut disabled?

well i think that i raced fairly consistently, as i have been getting the same BL1 times constantly for a few weeks now. I don't think that i could have improved .5 secs in 20 laps. You never know though. There is some support to my findings because in any turbo car, flatshifting will keep the turbo spooled. If you enable throttle cut, the turbo drops quickly, then has to spin up again.

edit: just realized that you mentioned the turbo cars hehe

Quote from JTbo :

I would say that flat shifting vs proper shifting is not very big difference at all and certainly will not stop one to get good times, there are much more of things to consider that are lot more important than such.

I conducted an experiment with the XRT on BL1 and raced 20 laps with it enabled and 20 laps with it disabled. I took the average time for both trials and the difference was give or take, .5 seconds.

Quote from dadge :

i faced a similar problem the other night while practicing for the ATC GP. i was spectating Franky ( i think) and it was lap 3/6 @ blackwood. i saw the guy leaving the pits and franky met him as he exited the pit lane. franky just got out infront of him (inches) and the guy just drove straight into him. then he spammed SRY (i mean if you can't even spell the word, don't use it) i then went on to tell him to check the mini map before entering the track, only to recieve mor e "SRY" spams. i let it go and i joined in on the next race. guess what? same thing happened but this time to me. we were racing away and there was like 3 seconds between 1st-3rd (gag 1st, franky 2nd and me 3rd). it was like grounhog day. the guy just rammed into me @ T1 (from the pits) and again all i got was "SRY" spams. i gave him the same warning and then he telepitted and waited until gag and franky were comming round to complete another lap (by this time i went to spectate to watch the guy). he miss-timed his exit by about 3 seconds. then he left after about 3 corners.
this is the stuff that does my head in big time.
getting back to the topic.
if i am blue flagging a car infront, i just flash the lights a few times to let the driver know that one of us thinks it is a good time to give way. i never spam (sometimes i would say "beep beep m8" ) but i usually crash because i have to type it.
if i am blue flagged i still drive flat out until the leader is within 0.32 (slipstream). if i am at a corner i will not hit the apex but i will take the widest line to give him/her minimum hold up. if it's on a straight i use 90% throttle so that i lose minimum time against any positions behind me. what makes me laugh is the people who say that when they are blue flagged they just drive on and it is the leaders problem to pass. surley this is cowpat? has nobody ever heard of the 3 flag rule? (just because lfs can't flag a driver like this, doesn't mean the flags get ignored)
ignoring the blue flag has to be in the top 5 "don't do's" in lfs

I understand you're point after the guy spammed it continuously, but your comment that people should not say "sorry" if they can't spell it right, i have to disagree with. If you're racing and you honestly are sorry for whatever reason, it is a hassel to "t sorry". Much easier to type "t sry".

i think damage modelling should come first. and fix those damn red and white barriers.

Quote from Blackout :

Uh eh what? Throttle cut on upshift option should be removed because the flatshifting sounds awful? What, so it should be always on? I'm confused. It's the damage what should be improved so flatshifting kills your car eventually.

The throttle cut enable/disable option should be removed. No one flat-shifts in real life as frequently as the "sim" does. Yes, the sound that flat-shifting makes sounds awful, i find that most people will agree on this. Also, you are right about engine damage, maybe if it is implemented, more people will think about whether or not to flat-shift. That might also be the solution. All in all i just think it is unrealistic to be able to do it for that long and that frequently without worrying about any problems or damage.