Quote from Scawen :

That is an interesting thought. Currently you are locked to the car body, and all looking is relative to that.

I have not got sick at all when driving normally. But when I went on BL Rallycross, that big bump made the view quite different from expected and I got an instant feeling of motion sickness (that also fades very quickly). The same thing happens when I hit a wall and the car gets bounced up.

So I might try (in a later test patch, not today) a thing where the view axes are more loosely locked to the car, so you can see medium frequency bumps affecting the car but not your view so much.

Scawen, could I put in a small request regarding this for use with dk2. If you do change anything could you make sure there is the option in the menus to alter the different settings. I have a motion simulator and so need the option to be fixed to the car (like it is now) so that when the car goes over a bump the motion simulator moves my body which bounces my head and effects my view like a real car would. If the game started adding extra bump effects it would probably be great for normal vr but not great with motion simulators as there would be conflicting view movements.

Scawen, I am mega excited for VR! I cannot wait for it to evolve slightly & think you are right that racing sims (lfs) are the best experience for them. Especially with the dk2 head tracking only working up to 180 degrees or so and still having a wire to the goggles.

I have an oculus rift dk1 which I've tried with lfs and other racing sims. With the resolution that has it is just not possible to pick your braking point as the graphics are too blurred to see. It's not unplayable, but it starts to get annoying that you can't see far ahead clearly enough, almost like my vision has got really bad. So for me the uprated resolution of the dk2 with the addition of head tracking is what I'm very excited about. I think this will be the base for many years to come. Obviously higher res will be welcomed but I do think this will be 'the' starting point for the future of VR. I cannot tell you how different it feels being inside the car rather than looking at it. If you keep your head perfectly still I can get away without feeling too sick but if you move your head a bit I have to stop! Everything I've read about dk2 seems to have solved this. I ordered mine a couple of days after you so hopefully I'm not too far down the list. Happy days ahead.

Quote from wildstyle :

Scawen is a perfectionist. There's zero chance it will be released before he thinks it's 100% done. And it doesn't help that he seems to be a very stubborn fella too.
Perfectionism brought life to this sim - but it was also the cause of its death.

I agree with you totally. It's so frustrating though, lfs could be sooooo much better. I do believe something will come because it would be a sorry state if Scawen worked on and off on tyre physics for 5 years and never released anything. However, I do think we may be some years off. Why Eric won't release new tracks though I just don't get. The only thing I can think of is holding them back for a big 'S3' release. With the oculus rift support lfs will still be in front once it starts to add more features & content.

Fingers crossed that's sooner rather than later!

What I don't understand is: how did Scawen create some of the best (if not the best) tyre physics so far years ago in what must of been a fairly short amount of time but yet cannot seem to get to a point where they are better in most situations than the first time after years of coding and experimenting. I know it must be the most difficult thing to code but with time you gain experience and so he must be able to release something that is better than the old physics but not 100% perfect.

Once this has been done then if the enthusiasm is still there all the fun stuff can happen, like adding new features and content.

I do believe this will happen but probably not this year.

The way the tyres move now especially in slo-mo replays is still beyond anything else available. Let's hope Scawen makes some good progress soon and can get to a state that can be released to the public.

Personally I'm sad that the day after I pre-ordered dk2 facebook bought oculus! But...... I understand why and the injection of cash will hopefully help the product become better quicker!

What I don't understand is: Scawen has said he has never stopped Eric releasing the new content he has made. So this means Eric thinks it is best to wait until after the new physics. Which for a car I can understand but not for tracks?? Why a new track couldn't have been released in the 5 year wait I just don't know. I know it's their hobby & they only do what they want with no pressure etc but why start something this good to begin with and then let it slowly die with limited new content. Beyond my business brain....!

Quote from Rift_Racing_1 :

Dunno how people think this is bad in the current 800p dev kit, I think it'd nothing short of amazing. When you're flying round a bend at 150mph in the formula 1 you tell me how much the resolution bothers you! It's like nothing any computer racing game has ever been like before, there is nothing like it. If you are a fan of this game you should get the rift. Simple as that. If it only worked on this game it would be worth the price.

The problem for me at least is not zooming round the corner at 150mph it's spotting the braking zone ahead doing 200+ when the view distance is far too pixelated to see when to brake.

It is an experience like no other and surely the future of sim gaming but we need higher res for it to make people choose the rift next time they play as I now find myself not using it until a better version is available. However, in the back of my mind is the amazing potential of how good it will be!

Oculus have said numerous times there won't be a 1080p dev version. There are a few 1080p prototypes around for shows etc that have a bad viewing area as the panel wasn't perfect for the application but they have said that the consumer version will be 1080p and have the right viewing area and out sometime in 2014.

It's not useless to me. I have a rift and will deffo buy the consumer version too so this is great timing. Also, Scawen can do whatever he wants in whatever order he wants. I'm guessing it's a nice break from tyre physics and is a reasonably short development time for implementing 3d & rift support. Yes, we all want new physics and new content but any work on lfs is good news in my eyes.

I'm sure other people have got their dev rifts but after 2 weeks with mine I thought I would add that although at the moment the 720p isn't really enough to spot braking points & see far enough ahead it is still totally usable for single player & testing the technology. I think that a 1080p consumer version will then be good enough for online racing. It still won't be perfect though as I think we need close to 4k to get graphics like what we are now used to on a normal 1080p monitor but the actual latency / immersion / depth of field is perfect for a racing sim once your body can handle the sicky feeling. Very happy lfs is looking into this technology early

With iracing the only driving sim to have official support is it likely they had to change cockpits etc? For example when sitting in a mazda mx5 the thing that makes all my friends "wow" is the way the roll cage / head support / steering wheel stick out and actually look 3d themselves and feel closer to you rather than just a flat 2d texture that is closer to you. Thoughts?

As soon as an update is available from Scawen I will get testing with my oculus rift and try help give some feedback because I can only see the oculus rift get more & more popular and improve the technology quickly!

I haven't noticed it yet so it must not annoy me too much but I haven't used it much for iracing, just trying out all the demo's etc.

After getting my hands on a oculus rift last week and Scawen confirming he is working on 3d support for lfs I thought I would say how excited I am for this. Yes the oculus dev kit isn't detailed enough yet for a racing game but with a 1080p or higher version around the corner I can't wait! The sense of immersion in iracing is outstanding but you can't focus far enough in front to see where the corners / braking zones are. Makes you feel like you are sat in the cockpit though!

Really hope they sort out native support for this!!!

I must admit that I've always thought updates will come out but just take ages but recently I'm starting to worry that Scawen may have given up on lfs.

I guess the yearly christmas dev update will tell all but I can't help feel that we will get the same response again that tyre physics are still being worked on....

Hope I'm wrong!

I've been saying for a few years now: There has to come to a point 'soon' when the tire model is not perfect but better than the old model. I know Scawen is his own boss etc but surely he knows time is running out for everyone. Life goes too quick, and if he loved his sim like he used to it's better for all of us to be playing on a 'better' tyre model than we used to have even if it's not as perfect as he'd like.

Quote from The Very End :

Anonymous is shit, same goes for Anal shitwalker.

Hahaha made my day! He thinks he's a hero when in fact he's the laughing stock of the community!

"That end can't be perfection but just a reasonable approximation for our purposes. So the driving feels great, heat and wear are close enough and setup changes do all the right things. That's what I want to get to, and it will open the door to the future of LFS."

I must admit I hadn't seen Scawen's post from September. This has finally answered my long term question that the new physics have to come to a point where they are better than what we have now but not perfected either. I imagine you could continue working on tyre physics for a lifetime and still never get them perfect in every situation.

I just hope Scawen is close to that point where we can have a nice improvement in tyre physics and use it as a great platform for all future lfs content. I'm sure what he has done already is fantastic and I'm hoping it is released sooner rather than later and we all get to experience it. (There's nothing stopping him continue to develop the physics further in the future after more content is added if he wanted.)

It would be a shame for the physics to take another 4 or 5 years and yet the rest of lfs be a 10 year old game. I know physics are the most important thing but surely all the other bits in the game need a polish to get the most out of the new physics when they are released.

As a long time user and fan I have never slated the devs decisions but have always thought the physics need to have a realistic time frame of about....this long. It would be a shame for it to slowly turn into a 10-20 year development path which a lot of us would never get to try.

In my working career I have always been taught that 'a little often' is better than 'a lot once'.

Hi Victor,

Thank you so so much for the little update you gave earlier in this thread. I've been with lfs for nearly a decade now and it really saddened me how the development updates have got less & less infrequent. I know the tyre physics being boring calculations are not very interesting to most but it's great to keep reminding everyone that you are all still working away in the background. When Scawen doesn't post a quarter of a year at a time it does make us all a bit worried that you are all losing interest. I can feel as you say there are better times ahead for lfs and S3. I really hope so as lfs has really made me a better driver & racer in every way, and that's with the old tyre physics!

p.s. It's amazing how far a screenshot once every couple of months goes in terms of keeping the community interested and positive. I realise that the screenshot released might never happen as plans change but surely it's better to please the true lfs users that there are exciting times ahead that may or may not happen than to slightly annoy a child when the car doesn't actually come out for whatever reason. (lx8)

It would also be great if Scawen could keep us posted with the tyre maths! It seemed they were nearly done, but then at beta stage problems were found etc If there is any chance he could let us know how many more years we need to wait that would be great. I know it totally depends on many different factors but it would be good to know if the plan is this year or next or the next 5 etc. I know your working practice is "it's done when it's done" but surely there has to come to a point when they are a massive improvement over the old tyre physics but not quite 100% perfect!

Anyway your post made my day. Please feel free to post something similar again so I can hold on to some hope of lfs improving sometime in the not so distant future!

Last edited by Alric, Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:21.

RIP Joe. Didn't know him but felt I had to give my condolences as he seemed such a highly regarded young man. I shall enjoy reading some of his well written posts and take joy from the fact he was lucky enough to have raced in the virtual and the real world. Only the best people go early.

Have to disagree with that one. I haven't raced much online, mainly due to the fact I don't want the pressure of crashing and ruining other peoples races. However I must have played lfs offline more than any other game with hundreds and hundreds of hours played. Surely my opinion is still valid on the forums if not the specific online bits.

Thank you Scawen & Victor, time to rig up my wheel with my pc again!

I've wanted to drive that little loop on fern bay for years and years looks like I will finally get my wish soon.

Quote from majod :

sad thing is this thread should be created by one of the developers, not by user accidently finding videos

Agreed! Come on devs, surely it's worth the effort to tell us things like this so we continue to buy your product.

The thing that worries me a bit is I really really hope the new tyre physics are a definite improvement over the old ones. Surely after a few years coding they will blow everything out of the water but there's the chance we all hate them.

Sorry that sounds a bit negative. But we really need these physics out in the community, get them as good as they can be for now and then move on to other new features. The possibility's for this game are huge if only the 3 devs are willing to keep on improving it. I hope they get back the enthusiasm they used to when I first found the game.

IIRC Scawen was fairly close to completion so surely he can give us a rough idea if we should count on waiting another 6 months or another 2 or 3 years??

Even if he went out and said the tyre physics will be released next week and then due to circumstances they were delayed, would it be possible for any more moaning than there already is??!

Here's to hoping the devs give us some kind of idea when lfs will have something new for everyone to enjoy.

Yes would be nice if we had a 'April Progress Report' in the next few days.....