General rules on the track.

● The last white lines are the border of the track except some curbs. If the track boundaries conflict with the drawn white or clip zone lines, then the drawn lines (white or yellow) take precedence.
● Everywhere after initiation except the deacceleration zone go to full throttle.
● The handbrake and the brake are prohibited (except decel zone) for the whole length of the track for the leader.
● Yellow cones for indicating of clip zones, so that it can be seen better.

Strike penalization, three strikes - disqualification.
● False start - one strike
● Knocked cone at the start/non-compliance with the starting procedure - one strike

Estimated by 0. (Critical mistake)

In Qualification:
● Drive off the track with 4 wheels.
● Opposite drift - Drifting with the opposite
angle required at that point on course
● Spinning Out
● Loss of drift - Straight wheels

n Pair runs:
● Drive off the track with 4 wheels.
● Opposite drift - Drifting with the opposite angle
required at that point on course
● Spinning Out
● Loss of drift - Straight wheels
● Collision with the other driver that is considered “avoidable”
or unsportsmanlike
● A chase driver intentionally not chasing the lead driver after
an INCOMPLETE was scored on the previous run.
● Three consecutive restarts from chicane cones
● Performing an Illegal pass - results in an
INCOMPETE for the chase driver
● Getting legally passed - results in an INCOMPLETE
for the lead driver

Judge Task.

● Acceleration on start after green light, bypassing the chikane. Without knocking down the cones.
● leader cant cross white restriction line.
● Initiation on the yellow line, before this line there should be a significant angle. But you don't need to show a backward. This will be penalized in pair runs. initiate with a clutch or flip. Handbrake here will be mistake for leader.
● Аfter initiation, you need to get close to the wall, and show a big angle.
● Decel zone, leader can slow down without throttle, you also can use the handbrake.
● The clip zone 1, leader need to go as deep as possible, the closer to the border of the track, the better, without crossing the line of the NoGo zone, the chaser can cross the line if necessary.
● Touch and go 1, leader need to show at least only one rear wheel in this zone.
● The outside zone 1, leader need to fill it from beginning to end, the closer to the border of the track, the better.
● The clip zone 2, leader need to go as deep as possible, the closer to the border of the track, the better,
● Touch and go 2, here leader need to show at least only one rear wheel in this zone.
● Touch and go 3, here leader need to show at least only one front wheel in this zone.
● The clip zone 3, leader need to go as deep as possible, the closer to the border of the track, the better,
● Touch and go 4, here leader need to show at least only one rear wheel in this zone, without crossing the line of the NoGo zone, the chaser can cross the line if necessary.
● Touch and go 5, here you need to show at least only one rear wheel in this zone.
● Finish line.

❗On June 11, the eighth stage of the Lislon Drift Challenge will take place on the LSN Drift Ground server.

⚠ Registration is required to participate - https://www.lfs.net/leagues/589/season/715/round/9/signup
Server - LSN DRIFT GROUND
Server password - lsndrfch8
Mods - N.S80, N.400S STREET DRIFT, XR GTD, XRT GTD V6T, STREET XRT, TDN YANNY 26T, XRTZIP, SALIVA15 RAIJIN LS7, SALIVA15 GOCHA, SALIVA15 RAIJIN, XR GT TURBO SMALL WHEELS, COQUETTE Z5 TUNED, XRT_DMN86, TAZ 05 DRIFT, XRSRT, MANURE
+ Private Mods, FZ JJD DRIFT, XR GT JJD, VAL CH, CLASSICK 04, CLASSICK 04 DRIFT, TAZ71 ORA TURBO, NUR 420, SAUSAGE 15, XRV8TURBO, SLX35 FCH
Tires - normal/cold
Org - RDC Alexey
Date - 06/11/23
Time - 18:00 Moscow time (15:00 UTC)
Registration - https://www.lfs.net/leagues/589/season/715/round/9/signup
Regulations - https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/98535-Lislon-Drift-Challenge---Regulations
Server rules - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dyVm0u_RybF8UekFwcS8xpHeTSaYseBNxvmfFF6Xkxw/edit

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Sun, 11 Jun 2023 14:54.

Thats looks cool, I haven't tried it yet, if its really works with no rotation restrictions this will help make smooth lays

i guess that all mods tha will be updated recently have that issue now

Quote from turbofan :

also this one :
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/104016-Your-vehicle-is-not-known-on-this-host

that issue has happened several times already for other mods since march or april

Yes, same with my mod N400S STREET DRIFT, that was published yesterday

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Sun, 4 Jun 2023 09:59.

What a pessimistic mood here. At the moment is nothing better in the LFS than the official servers. All that the crack can offer is a brazilian servers with a huge ping, no mods, and with inadequate players whose management ddosing the LFS official master server. Fish rots from the head.

It looks like the Scawen is already finishing physics and Eric is finishing Fern bay, which is probably is was the last aspect of this update that needed to be done.

I believe that if the update with graphics and physics is not delayed anymore and comes out at least this year, it can bring new players in LFS, and a lot more players will bring Track Editor, if it comes out some time after the update. Since in all aspects (car mods, track mods, graphics, physics) the LFS can compete with the popular Assetto Corsa. And now it's losing because it doesn't have enough tracks and the graphics are not at a sufficient level.

Quote from Viperakecske :

So youre against Scawen

I answered a specific person who said that lfs is "It's not a game Live for Speed is a serious racing simulator.", and this already gives its own context. Unlike the manual with bright slogans.

I've met people like that before from the sect of witnesses of racing simulators. And I don't care who say it If he really means it, ordinary player or Scawen, even if it's Joe Biden or Putin. How does this change my words? Don't you have consumer protection laws or something? If you bought a product you can do what you want with it as long as it does not contradict the law, internal rules of use, or common sense. And no one else can dictate how you use it.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Thu, 1 Jun 2023 15:56.

Quote from Evolution_R :

The text @pajkul has posted is from here: https://www.lfs.net/whatislfs

And? It doesn't change my words.

Quote from Viperakecske :

When updating lfs

Quote from pajkul :

No need.

We can consider it necessary or not necessary it does not particularly matter, the main thing that the developers are focused on further support and development of the game. That's what's important and that's what most players are waiting for, some can no longer wait and that's why we have such messages. Which I can understand, but it is not necessary to constantly write it in to threads like this as it is unlikely to change anything and it just turns into annoying flooding.

Quote from pajkul :

It's not a game. Live for Speed is a serious racing simulator.

And racing simulator is not a gaming ganre? And we have no concepts like "sim racing games"?

I feel like I'm in a cult of holy simulators...

You can treat this game as you want, but don't impose your ideas on others.

How about we just have fun as we want?

Quote from pajkul :

No arcade modes, no steering aids - YOU have to do the driving.

I don't think you have the right to dictate to customers of a product what they should do with it. They can enjoy it as they see fit.

Final look on mod -
Please suppurt it on Vehicle Mod Reviews - https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/103937-N-400S-STREET-DRIFT

Quote from pedalkin :

the opinion which does not match with yours is obviously a consequence of propaganda. you're the only enlightened

Propaganda match with propaganda. If you had your own original thoughts on the subject, it probably wasn't propaganda. Moreover, I did not state anything unequivocally just in case you have your own thoughts on the subject, which is what I wanted to hear. But when im ask you for an explanation that you don't want to answer. What am I left to think about? The simplest explanation is the most effective.

Quote from pedalkin :

Ukraine adopted nazism

The take you gave is literally from Russian propaganda, which is repeated there daily basis. And you didn't give any reasoning for it. No facts, just big headlines.

Quote from pedalkin :

Why not stop using Discord and other communications? There are alternatives in Russian Internet.

I'm not going to change somehow for stupid people.

Quote from pedalkin :

It is very unlikely that complex theories, laws and policies can be understood by those who fail doing basic math operations. As result, Ukraine adopted nazism, which calls for basic instincts.

A decrease in the average does not mean that a particular person "fail doing basic math operations" and therefore he adheres to certain ideological positions. A does not imply B. If we are talking about logic, I advise you to study the material conditional.
Even if we assume that this is true (about fail doing basic math operations), what is the connection between Nazism and the inability to do math? You want to say in Germany all the Nazis did not know how to use mathematics? This is obviously not the case, and from an engineering point of view, Germany at the time of the outbreak of World War II bypassed most countries. And engineering and mathematics are connected.

Quote from pedalkin :

As result, Ukraine adopted nazism, which calls for basic instincts.

You apply an ideological title to an whole country...not to an individual, but to an entire country, when Ukraine is in fact another ideological entity. Are we talking about the same Nazis? National Socialism has only happened once in history, namely in Germany in the 30's and 40's.

Sounds like a propaganda thesis that makes a mountain out of a molehill. What you nean by "Ukraine adopted nazism"? Ukraine now National Socialist dictatorship? Ukraine have far-right totalitarian political ideology? Are Jews there being killed on the basis of ethnicity?
What do you mean exactly?
I don't want this thread to turn into a Solovyov or Kisilov show from Россия 24, they usually say that kinda of nonsense there. Let's not speak in terms of propaganda, Let's talk in the language of facts. And if you express some kind of categorical thesis, then will follow it with categorical argumentation.

From the outside it looks like a man who has heard enough propaganda and goes to tell everyone how Ukrainian society works.

Quote from pedalkin :

I was born in Russia, Russian-speaking, citizen of Lithuania, living and working in the UK and US.
I lived in Russia in my childhood and then few years during studies in university.
I heard the term of "civilized world" only in Eastern Europe/Russia, exceptionally in context of "We, former ex-Warsaw bloc joined NATO and EU, the civilised countries and thus also became civilised and you, the USSR are barbarians"
I read PISA Adult Skills Survey...

Almost all family members of my grandparents were killed by Lithuanians in early 40s (Holocaust in Lithuania), which is now considered by lithuanian history as "fight for freedom". And Lithuanian nowadays leadership consists of direct descendants of those who signed orders to kill my grandparents.

I'm sorry, but your comment seems kind of biased, and it looks like the last paragraph is the most important for you, from which you build further reasoning, in search of some surveys and statistics.
I don't quite understand your thesis. You give a lot of explanations, but what these explanations lead to is not clear to me. For example, you showed the PISA Adult Skills Survey, оkay, and what are you trying to say by that?

Quote from Racer Y :

The guy I was talking about is Prigozhin, The notorious Wagner Whiner. Conspiracy theory? No. I meant THEORIES. You don't have a bunch of them over there? Isn't that part of the planet where half of the conspiracy theories originate? Oh well we have all kinds over here. You debunk one, they just go and flock to another one.

We have conspiracy theories, but I prefer to discuss more concrete things, with simpler and more comprehensive explanations that fit with Occam's razor.

Quote from Racer Y :

And the rumor I was talking about is the one where Prigozhin offered to give up Russian positions to the Ukraine military. You haven't heard that one? This dude has been bad mouthing the Russian military every other hour. He is more critical than Nelvany is. So yeah, I figure he's gonna get taken out one way or the other.

For me, the more understandable explanation seems to be that fighters leave because of poor supplies, on the Russian side of the front it often happens that fighters are left without artillery shells and even without ammunition for automatic rifles. What should soldiers do in this situation when Ukrainians attack them, fight with their hands? There is also a constant shortage of shells for heavy equipment. (which, by the way, was constantly mentioned by Prigozhin) To me this looks like a more reasonable thing for the soldiers to escape than any conspiracy theories.

But okay, I'm willing to consider other options, let's say it's somehow profitable for Prigozhin. The question is how? I don't see why the Prigozhin would do that cuz I don't see how he can benefit from it. Because he himself suffers from fleeing soldiers.

Quote from Racer Y :

"China is constantly trying to turn events to its advantage, which is understandable. But speaking of the future we start to put a crystal ball on the table, I would prefer not to do that." I dunno. Better to be prepared.
Uh yeah... About that.... When Putin crashes and burns, it won't just be the Chinese. All of us are gonna want a piece of that pie. Even Ghana and Bolivia! And seeing all the oligarghs will be wanting their boats and their money back, they'll be more than happy to cooperate. But seriously you're gonna have problems with China as well as Iran and maybe Turkey trying to get influence in that region around Armenia

This may or may not be true. We cannot predict what will happen in the future.
I understand that Russia is the country with the largest territory and the largest common land border in the world. And as such, China should not be trusted in the long term, but some short-term cooperation could be beneficial. I would like to say that the Kremlin are not fools and also understand this, but given what happened in February last year, I think I will refrain from such an assessment.

If this was a pm, I would answer on this nonsense, but I'm here not for trolling. And I won't answer stupid off topic questions.

I'm sorry, but your presentation of information is a little confused, I don't quite understand what you're trying to say.

Quote from Racer Y :

I read an article about this a few days ago. This guy was spot on. He stated it was the west's fault that Putin's aggressions came about. He was right. It was because the western nations convinced the Ukraine to give their nukes back to the Russian Federation. All those nonsensical conspiracy theories about this or that when that's the real reason this happened. You think that Putin would take on a nuclear armed country?

What are you talking about? What guy? What conspiracy theory?

After the collapse of the Soviet Union there was the question of the distribution of nuclear weapons. Naturally the rest of the world did not want nuclear weapons to be divided among the 4 countries that had collapsed. It seems obvious to me that the more nuclear powers there are, the more likely it is that something could go wrong in the world.

That's why everybody wanted the newly created Russian Federation to keep the nuclear weapons, so the Budapest Memorandum was signed. The treaty implies not only transfer of nuclear weapons to Russia but also non-development of new nuclear weapons. In response, the U.S., Britain and Russia undertook obligations to respect the independence, sovereignty and existing borders of Ukraine and to refrain from threats or use of force and economic pressure, and in case of any threats to Ukraine using nuclear weapons - to demand immediate action from the UN Security Council.
In fact this very part was violated by Russia first in 2014 and then in 2022, which means that technically Ukraine can develop nuclear weapons as Zelensky stated just before the full-scale invasion in 2022, And this very quote by Zelensky was used by Putin as one of the Casus belli for the invasion of Ukraine

This is not a conspiracy theory, these are facts.

Quote from Racer Y :

I do think these latest developments with Wagner group is pretty interesting. Even if the rumor is false, I still think Prigozhi is gonna have one those oligargh accidents. I don't even think Canada's Trudeau would put up with an embarrassment like that dude.

China... China. I still think they are gonna try to use this for leverage on whoever is running Russia when this is all over. I think that the timing of how it winds down will factor in as well.

Again. What latest developments with Wagner group?

Try to understand please, we are in a daily stream of news about the DNR-LNR, Bakhmut, Wagner, Prigozhin, Shaigu, Solovyov and his gulagunet, Strelkov-Girken and recently here's Prigozhin having a new skirmish with Gen. Sobolev, or new attacks in Ukraine, and Russian soldiers fleeing, and there are attacks even on Russia. And Prigozhin is trying to make a point about every single one of these things. And at the same time you pull out any one news item about Prigozhin and talk as if you all know what it's about. There the news gets so passionate, it's worse than a Spanish soap opera. There are literally a bunch of news items on Prigozhin and Wagner every day. At least tell us the point more or less to understand what you are talking about.

On China it could be, China is constantly trying to turn events to its advantage, which is understandable. But speaking of the future we start to put a crystal ball on the table, I would prefer not to do that.

Quote from ivo_drifta :

I really like your work here! Great job!

Thank you man, I appreciate it!

widebodys are almost done

I agree, graphics and physics this is what we are all waiting for now.

I understand that this is not a bug, but I did not know where to write suggestions for the site.

For me, this is an obvious feature. I often came across a situation where I did not know what was answered on the forum, or when I answered someone and they did not answer me for months because they did not know that they had received an answer. I understand that there is a subscription tab on the site for this, but I already have dozens of threads there and I just don’t want to press this button, moreover, many simply don’t know how it works and don’t use this function

I have a suggestion to add a "reply" button instead of a "quote" button. This button will also do everything the same, including a quote in the answer, but it will also give a bell notification so that it is immediately visible on the site and the person understands that he received a response . It would also be convenient that you could click on the notification in the bell, which will take you to the desired forum thread.

It will work just like on all other modern sites and it will be immediately clear to everyone.

Quote from BlueFlame :

I'm late to this thread.

I guess you would say, I have strong opinions on this topic....

America and the West's obsession with this behaviour is just an extension of colonialism but the very same people who still harp on about colonialism to this day seem to want this war.

In the end, drafted soldiers and innocent people will die, all because the West doesn't want to lose face.

I didn't want to respond to your comment because I generally agree with everything you said, propaganda is indeed everywhere, and most people are highly influenced by it. But it is important to understand propaganda from all sides and try not to be influenced by any one of them. but re-reading my gaze caught on the word "colonialism"

Colonialism...yes, it is true to some extent. Like with liberalism, bolshevism, fascism, totalitarianism, nazism... all these are a collection of practices and ideas to gain power, we can call them different words, but the party that gets the upper hand over the other players has the right to dictate their terms of play by right of the strong. All this leads to globalism. That's the way our world works. The strongest dictates how to behave, despite the fact that we all know it's wrong. Even if these practices, polities and idiologies are recognized by the strongest as being the best. You cannot dictate uniform rules simply because different people have different cultures, different traditions, different ways of living. But the strongest ones do not care. It just has to be accepted as a fact.

International law does not exist in essence, it is just a facade which can be changed to suit them, if "supporters" of international law need to violate it, they will quietly do this if they have enough power to do so.

I agree that it is stupid to talk about the policies of different countries from the perspective of good and evil. Each state has its own interests in the global arena. But if this state will lead on the global arena, it will dictate its terms of being on this arena.

And here the question already arises "what would be if?"
What would have happened if the Nazis had won and dictated their terms of being on this stage? Or the communists? Or the classical liberals? I don't know the answer to these questions, but I think that depending on a regime that spread their version of globalism to the entire world was a serious difference for the entire population of people.

Right now the world is ruled by left-liberals some of them are increasingly drawn to authoritarian practices in their countries. This was especially evident against the backdrop of covid events. But still there is even a large isolationist camp in U.S. politics right now. Generally no one listens to them, but nevertheless sometimes such things as withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan happen (although this is a bad example because the withdrawal was too abrupt, and immediately after that the Taliban took over and restored totalitarian order) Or even now supplies under the lend-lease from the U.S. are not carried out, although lend-lease was approved over a year ago, there is still no supply, and ukraine is suffering from it. Trump was a better isolationist than Biden with his 'America First" politics. But the elites didn't like it and the media removed him. So here and there are still some isolationist practices from some of the leaders. These factors still give us the right to think that this is not the worst version of globalism.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Here, in the West, China and Russia are allied.

Yesterday there was a meeting of the United Nations in which a resolution on Russia was adopted. The UN resolution on Russian aggression against Ukraine and Georgia, 122 countries in particular China, and even pro-Russian Kazakhstan, India, Armenia, Turkey, and Brazil voted to support the resolution.

What kind of alliance are we talking about if one ally recognizes the other as an aggressor?

Edit: The funny thing is that before the war in Ukraine, the UN assessed Georgia's actions in the 2008 war differently, and that Georgia started the aggression first, while russia's retaliatory actions were too harsh.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Tue, 2 May 2023 08:09.

current progress on widebodys

I don't have a strong opinion for or against reverse engineering on LFS code. But I just want to make a point for the sake of having a reasoned discussion.

As far as I understand, having free reverse engineering helps developers of third-party software to help players. Tweak and LFS Lazy are just the most famous of them. As far as I understand these programs are not forbidden and they are not cheats (if tweek is used on specialized servers) There can be many such programs, by analogy with Asseta Corsa where there are third-party applications for things that the developers did not provide. But there are special conditions for such applications.

For example in IRacing in nascar series some players use additional program that in interface makes visualization of cars from sides, that helps in the race with a small fov. Usually it is more convenient than mirrors, or voice bot-spotter or look sideways on the button. In LFS Lazy we have something similar. I think its good that being able to do something similar in LFS by reverse engineering.

Death Note

A classic of Japanese animation, this anime watched by many of those who do not watch anime. It's funny that in Russia this title was banned on many resources and there were a lot of scandals with this anime both in Russia and outside of it. But if we analyze the plot, there is a message that is the opposite of the one that is derived from the buzz around the series.

From the very first minutes, a dark story immerses you in the atmosphere of real Tokyo, the plot thrills with its provocative subject matter: it immediately seems to be a reference to Dostoevsky, where there is obviously an attempt to replay the finale of Crime and Punishment. For once, Raskolnikov was replaced not by a reflective brat, but by a strong and self-confident cynic. It's hard to review without spoilers, so read on at your own risk.

Spoilers!!!
Unfortunately, all the psychology and philosophy outlined in the first episode ends there as well. The question of the moral justification for killing criminals is very interesting, and you can open a debate on the subject here (which I will try to do at the end of the review). Easily discarding the philosophical-psychological subtext, the series turns into a chess-like game, a tense intellectual duel between the two main characters: Yagami Light and L. These two are the best thing about Death Note. Equally ambitious, cold-blooded and determined players, how different they are in everything else! How cleverly they both manage to deceive everyone with their looks! One is an enviable role model, but in reality a cynical, unprincipled, and self-absorbed boy. The other - unsmooth and eccentric - turns out to be the most astute and principled. Worthy of each other's rivals, watching the game - a pleasure. And Ryuk, as a spectator, watches it and enjoys how we do it.

Unfortunately, the series has turned out to be very uneven in character and quality.
The first 17 episodes are watchable in the same breath, each episode comes with surprises. It is remarkable that throughout the whole plot the main driving force is the tense dialogues and reasoning of the characters. Perhaps the crowning jewel of the entire series are the episodes in which Light cynically takes out Agent Ray Penber and his fiancée.
However, it seems that all viewers have noted that starting around episode 18, when L finally manages to give his opponent the check, the action dramatically loses tension. The Yotsuba story (episodes 18-24) leaves a sense of bewilderment. On the one hand, it is given too much attention to distract the viewer from the main storyline (the confrontation between Light and L, in which a stalemate occurred), but on the other hand, the story is told too crumpled, and new characters are replaced too quickly to really captivate the action.

Episode 25, which in itself is exceptionally beautiful and deserves its own review, in the context of everything that precedes it, seems to hang in the air from the very first minutes from its atypicality. References to the New Testament in which L washes Light's feet, The ringing of the bells, the visuals. Just a terrific episode. L's death scene and Misa's sad song will surely go into the golden fund of Japanese animation.

After episode 25, Death Note loses that pacing, and resembles a jammed record, endlessly repeating the same situations, motifs, and images. Light still builds more and more complex combinations, and the result is less and less attention to the meaning of what's going on. One by one, his new supporters and opponents are replaced, with the opponents proving to be mere diminutive copies of the dead L. The characters are still watchable, and they even show some new approaches, but it still feels like we've seen it all before.

Death Note is a very interesting work, undoubtedly worthy of the attention it receives. The series has the necessary sum of qualities to be appealing to both mass viewers and more demanding audiences, but it is intended more for fans of suspenseful action rather than psychological depth.
Resume. The series has pretended to be a lot of things. Accordingly, and a great demand for it. In many ways it has justified this demand. The ending has a lot of complaints. But on the other hand, what good can the ending be, where the main character is a mass murderer? Well, the Death Note creators alas can't say that they "created a new world" as Light would have wanted, but they can rightfully repeat the final phrase of the Ryuug Shinigami - "We defeated boredom". Let's give them a big thank you from the audience for that.

----

And here we can start a discussion about the moral right to kill criminals. And as a provocation to a reasoned discourse, I will speak out as the devil's advocate.
I have seen reactions to this topic in the form of statements such as:

"Moral principles...killing is bad." \ "Who gave you the moral right to kill?"

- And who gave the moral right to the goverment to kill? (like executions or wars) Now the state has a monopoly on violence and murder .. where does it have such a moral right? Why do we consider something moral for the state but not moral for an individual person? Why? If you define it as the self defense of society against criminals, then yes, that's the point, that's what Kira is doing.
Morality is different from country to country, from culture to culture, from one time to another time. People have always killed each other throughout the entire historical process. And no one has ever given any rights to this, and nothing has changed from this Then what is morality anyway? What are you appealing to? Why exactly is "morality" a factor in this question? So a man kills a man...and? What's next? Go to hell, or what the point? And there is a clear contradiction with the fact that throughout history man has constantly killed man and this is morally justified as something right like again on wars or in executions...
I mean, public morality says it's bad to kill a people, and at the same time it's good to kill a people. It's kind of a contradiction.
And what is morality to you anyway? Is it up in the air somewhere? Can you point a finger at it? No? Well, as in the case of fairies or unicorns, according to the scientific method, what cannot be looked at materially does not exist. There is no morality, it is a social construct which has been imposed on everyone, an individual can hold any ethical position, for example - "human life has no value like that of other animals, he who killed - won, he who was killed - lost" And death is much more objective than any invented morality. And that's what really matters.

"Human life is priceless. There's a commandment, 'Thou shalt not kill.' You're not a god to take a man's life."

- What god are we talking about? There's a lot of justification for murder in the bible... The story of Abraham and Isaac, the hardening of Pharaoh's heart and the murder of the babies of Bethlehem, Moses' speech to the judges of Israel, Deuteronomy, and so on and so forth. Too many to list. So is Judaism, Islam, and many other religions. So? What does this have to do with God? Why is it relevant? How can a Christian god be a relay of absolute public morality when he himself justified the murder and rape of women and children? "Human life is priceless"-Why? In what is the value of the life of a man who murdered and raped children measured?
Suppose there is no God. What then? So according to you if there is no god, then it's okay to take a person's life? Why not? The law? The law changes from time to time. When it's legal to kill others, when it's not. If you are in power and you have separated yourself in some way from others, then you can kill others. Even as recently as the 20th century, it was in Soviet times with the kulaks, the clergy, and the party class. In Nazi Germany with the Jews. It was all legal. If you appeal to the law, you appeal to that, too. And similar things still happen today, albeit on a smaller scale. For example with oppositionists in authoritarian states.


"Kira can start killing less and less guilty people."

- And if she doesn't? Then will you side with Kira? Why are we talking not about what happened, but what happened in the theoretical future in terms of Japanese animation which someone came up with in their head and created a manga and then an was created anime based on that manga? Like...what? The argument should not be based on Kira, but on the principle of killing criminals. Think of it then as an execution by the state. There is a chance to execute an innocent person, and the more authoritarian the state becomes, the more likely the innocent will be executed. Again, think of Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union under Stalin. But those states had the moral strength to do so. After all, as proponents of natural human rights believe, morality spreads through the state and its law. It turns out, following these beliefs, if they are consistent in this, they believe that the USSR and the Nazis did nothing wrong.
I believe that morality and law as a consequence of morality in the state is just a social construct, which can be convenient at one time but disastrous at another. But at the same time, the very existence of the state confuses no one, states exist everywhere, and for some reason people do not picket against it. That is, they are fine with it.
How then is Kira any worse? None.

And here's my simple argument, let's present an uncomplicated
mental experiment:
Consider with the example of murder.
We have two worlds.
Our world: where innocent people are murdered every day. (Statistically, ~437,000 murders a year \ ~1200 a day, and this is not taking into account military conflicts) Where there is room for war, genocide, the repression of innocents, and other such things...
And Kira's world: A world where murder and other serious crimes are reduced as much as possible due to the fact that almost all criminals are killed by an invisible force and those left behind are afraid of committing any crime, and there is very little murder and other crimes in this world. So much so that even if you count the murder of all criminals by Kira + the murders of the remaining criminals, the number is thousands of times less than in the first world.
The question is, which world would you choose? And why?

I prefer a world with fewer murders, and for me clearly wrong is one who chooses a world with a large number of murders. And you can even dismiss the fact that this world is causing more suffering and murders, its obvious, you can look at it from the lens of rational selfishness. Because I want there to be as little chance of me being killed as possible. A man values his life first and foremost. Since he can only be aware of himself, because he is looking from himself in the first person. He cannot think for everyone else, life (subjective experience) in other people is unprovable.
To me, the one who chooses a world with more murder is clearly wrong. Especially because in kira's world, almost always, only the guilty are killed.

Last edited by Aleksandr_124rus, Thu, 20 Apr 2023 09:09.