EMKO

Vehicle mod: UZOVKA
Details page: https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/7AC9E1



Vehicle mod: EMKO
Details page: https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/6FCA58



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Work in progress:

Another classic from Czechoslovakia is coming to LFS

It is the popular Škoda 742 made between 1976 and 1990, commercially known as Škoda 105,120, 125 or 130.

After some searching and asking, I have managed to get a hold of a 3D model of several variants of this car, thanks to the original author TTÆtom and others from the CZ/SK/EU Škoda Discord community for helping me out.

The first model I'm aiming to add is the original and the least powerful model Škoda 105 L. I'd like to add more versions and variants of this car in the future.

Nice, another classic This is probably the first mod, where the Goraud-shading looks good - those little visual "dents" from the side look surprisingly realistic. Are you going to make a 130 LR version too?

nice!!

Quote from stuchlo :

Are you going to make a 130 LR version too?

I'm not planning to, although Nixient seems to be working on one Taken from Discord by him:

Testing out headlights

Front indicators, rear lights and number plates

Dashboard progress

looking nice, any chance of you making a 130LR in the future?

See a few posts above

Thanks, i'm blind apparently

- Interior mapping progress
- Added steelies

All colour variants and configurations so far

Nice job

- more interior mapping
- underbody mapping
- engine mapping
- visible suspension arms
- visible & moveable rear trailing arm
- inner fenders have dark points now

- added more interior textures (roof, steering wheel, shift pattern sticker
- increased transparency of windows
- softer and mode driveable setup
- disabled anti-roll bars
- limit to open differential oly

As always extremely HQ mods, excellent work dude, tnx for this

Finally I can trash my grandpas 120

Submitted for rewiew: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/103171-UZOVKA

9k redline? cant even reach that :DD

I wanted to simulate not having any rev limiter at all

Actually, I think the rev gauge should not be there either, I will consider updating it to match the real life gauge:

yes like irl cool, but the thing is that 9k for 45hp is way too much. but this is your mod and u do want u want with it..

Quote from Giedriune :

yes like irl cool, but the thing is that 9k for 45hp is way too much. but this is your mod and u do want u want with it..

As I wrote above, the real car did not have a hard rev limiter, so as long as you pressed the gas pedal, the engine kept revvig up until it broke eventually. Sadly that does not happen in LFS, but the engine torque curve is made so it drops down all the way from the peak to about 8500 RPM where it reaches 0. You can't rev it over that value but there is no hard limit to stop you. During normal driving you would only shift up at about 3000 RPM anyway.

Quote from Flame CZE :

As I wrote above, the real car did not have a hard rev limiter, so as long as you pressed the gas pedal, the engine kept revvig up until it broke eventually. Sadly that does not happen in LFS, but the engine torque curve is made so it drops down all the way from the peak to about 8500 RPM where it reaches 0. You can't rev it over that value but there is no hard limit to stop you. During normal driving you would only shift up at about 3000 RPM anyway.

Good idea Maybe an information about recommended shifting speeds could be a nice addition to the mod description. Like in those old manufacturer manuals.

Do u consider make it skinable?

Quote from TPEBOMAH :

Do u consider make it skinable?

Yes, it’s on my to do list. I’m like 80% done mapping the body to the correct cutouts.

Version 3

added skin support
fixed C pillar vent texture
removed speedo and replaced it with a realistic gauge
removed extra chrome cover from door handles
updated engine torque curves to better match realistic values
adjusted car mass to match the real value

I prefer to have RPM gauges in all cars, even if the original does not have them. Otherwise players are forced to use virtual RPM display (or be at disadvantage) which is imo more unrealistic than an extra instrument on the dashboard.

Maybe I can make it an option as a configuration?

By the way, using the rev gauge in this car to know where to shift is not very helpful, because the torque curve drops down significantly before it can even hit the hard rev limiter. So I’m not sure if it’s even useful to have it at all.

But I could make it a config, one option can be an aftermarket additional rev gauge, which people did place in the real cars, or simply place the rev gauge and its lights where they used to be.

Quote :

By the way, using the rev gauge in this car to know where to shift is not very helpful, because the torque curve drops down significantly before it can even hit the hard rev limiter. So I’m not sure if it’s even useful to have it at all.

I get what you mean but there will still be an optimal rpm to shift at. With a gauge it is easier to hit the best spot, whether it is at 3000 or at 6000 rpm.

Yes, aftermarket configuration would be nice. Most important the RPM gauge but maybe also cage.

I have added a configuration called TACHO GAUGE which uses the tachometer instead of the generic gauge.

Updated gauges using the latest test patch. I will publish them when the patch is official.

very bootifull mr fleme

Why does this car go into the breaker at 9000 rpm, the power and torque rpm do not match it. The car does not go at all, it is very lifeless. If possible, the cutter should be pulled down and lower revs should be improved. The new gauge type looks very nice, hopefully we'll see it in-game.
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I set the engine redline this high to simulate having no hard rev limiter at all. However the visual redline does not correspond to the actual engine peak power.

The updated gauges wil show a redline at around 5000 RPM, which roughly corresponds to the actual power peak at 4852 RPM.

These are actual figures from the real Škoda 105:

Torque: 72.8 Nm @ 3000 RPM
Power: 33.1 kW @ 4800 RPM

Anyhow, it is supposed to be quite lifeless

The facelifted "M" version coming soon as a separate mod EMKO:

- whopping 58 hp
- 5 speed gearbox
- bigger track width
- brand new light cluster
- plastic bumpers
- large front indicators

and more

Very nice car, obviously well know in my country.
From what I could find, this car (a real one) has swing axle rear suspension. Wouldn't it be better approximated in LFS by MacPherson strut with a very long lower arm?

Looking forward to EMKO, looks great! How did you make those taillight textures?

Quote from w126 :

Very nice car, obviously well know in my country.
From what I could find, this car (a real one) has swing axle rear suspension. Wouldn't it be better approximated in LFS by MacPherson strut with a very long lower arm?

This is an interesting idea. Will it ensure changes of toe-in as well as camber during suspension travel?

Quote from stuchlo :

Looking forward to EMKO, looks great! How did you make those taillight textures?

They come from the textures included in the base 3D model I got permission to use - it was also used to create this BeamNG mod by the same author Atomix aka TTÆtom. So no hard work there from my side

I can't thank those guys enough who modelled the car and made it available to me. They've already included all the car variants (base, M, Rapid, even some parts of LR) and I'm just reusing their work and converting it into LFS.

Quote from stuchlo :

This is an interesting idea. Will it ensure changes of toe-in as well as camber during suspension travel?

I was thinking mainly of camber changes with suspension travel. I'm not even aware of any method to see dynamic toe information in LFS. I checked some old data from RAF file for XRT (with MacPherson strut at the rear) and wheel steer component is a constant value equal to toe from car's setup. This component is commented as "including Ackermann and toe" in RAF format description.

Quote from w126 :

I was thinking mainly of camber changes with suspension travel. I'm not even aware of any method to see dynamic toe information in LFS. I checked some old data from RAF file for XRT (with MacPherson strut at the rear) and wheel steer component is a constant value equal to toe from car's setup. This component is commented as "including Ackermann and toe" in RAF format description.

If the toe value is constant, which are benefits of approximation using McPherson over an approximation using double-wishbone (for example this mod)? Asking, because I have made some mods with swing axles and if McPherson is more accurate, I will gladly rework them

Quote from Flame CZE :

I can't thank those guys enough who modelled the car and made it available to me. They've already included all the car variants (base, M, Rapid, even some parts of LR) and I'm just reusing their work and converting it into LFS.

Nice Now, I am looking forward to the Rapid too
BTW, are you planning also 100 or 1000MB?

Quote from w126 :

Very nice car, obviously well know in my country.
From what I could find, this car (a real one) has swing axle rear suspension. Wouldn't it be better approximated in LFS by MacPherson strut with a very long lower arm?

Interesting idea, I can try it. Here’s a picture of the real suspension of the original version (left) and the upgraded M version (right):



I guess I could use MacPherson suspension for the M version in LFS to make it different from the UZOVKA just like in real life.

Quote from stuchlo :

Nice Now, I am looking forward to the Rapid too
BTW, are you planning also 100 or 1000MB?

I would like to introduce more of these classics yeah, but the lack of time and/or skills is kinda getting in the way. There is a BeamNG mod of the 100, maybe there would be a way to contact the author and ask for a permission.

Also I’ve got a permission to use a model of a Škoda 1203 BeamNG mod but sadly it’s too high poly for LFS.

There are more cars on my wishlist. Speaking of Škoda, it would be cool to have a Favorit or a Felicia too.

Quote from Flame CZE :

There are more cars on my wishlist. Speaking of Škoda, it would be cool to have a Favorit or a Felicia too.

If you are ok with lower-poly models, I could make the 97 Felicia. It was my first car so it is on my wishlist too. But it will be a lot of work and I am not sure if I should invest it into a stock version or into a kit car (which is more suitable for LFS). It is too much work to create both, but maybe I could make a stock one and leave the kit car for collaboration?

Quote from stuchlo :

If the toe value is constant, which are benefits of approximation using McPherson over an approximation using double-wishbone (for example this mod)? Asking, because I have made some mods with swing axles and if McPherson is more accurate, I will gladly rework them

Now I see that I was not entirely right with the suggestion to use MacPherson strut. The solution in Hadimrska Sport is better for this purpose with its specific geometry, that is lower and upper arms being of equal lengths and going to the differential.

Quote from Flame CZE :

Interesting idea, I can try it. Here’s a picture of the real suspension of the original version (left) and the upgraded M version (right)

For the swing axle version I think it's better to try stuchlo's solution.
The M version seems to have semi-trailing arm suspension. I don't know what is the best way to do it with current LFS suspension options.

I've just tried setting up a dobule wishbone suspension similar to the Hadimrska Sport and now the car handles quite strange in corners - the inside wheel lifts too much. It's not very fun to drive like that. In fact the a similar thing happens with the Hadimrska.

Quote from Flame CZE :

I've just tried setting up a dobule wishbone suspension similar to the Hadimrska Sport and now the car handles quite strange in corners - the inside wheel lifts too much. It's not very fun to drive like that. In fact the a similar thing happens with the Hadimrska.

Unfortunately, swing axles are infamous for being tricky to drive IRL. Here is a video, where Škoda 100 (it has a very similar axle) is being flipped https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laho76wKVUs and here is an article about flipped Tatra 87
https://www.curbsideclassic.co ... lip-a-tatra-t87-at-20-mph For example Chevrolet Corvair and Volkswagens had the same trouble.

In this case, there are two main problems. Firstly, the tires are too grippy for a historic vehicle, so the outer tire is trying to get under the vehicle in a sharp turn. Secondly, the rear axle of Užovka is quite different from Hadimrška, because those trailing arms change toe value (Hadimrška does not have any trailing arms and therefore the approximation is on the point). If you remember, we were discussing these problems earlier, during the mod review process. Yes, the trailing arm suspension is much more stable and easy to drive. When I was working on a Tatra 87 (which has a similar problem as Užovka) I made multiple experiments with MacPherson suspension, but was not happy about the results. It looks like the Hadimrska-like approximation works quite good for T87 and corresponds to its "habit to kill nazi officers".

My personal estimation is that Užovka could also use Hadimrška-like solution while eMko could use the trailing arms, but I am not sure which one is the best. Maybe there is a trick how to use MacPherson for some better results but it is an opened problem.

Thanks for the information, I'll think about it. Interesting thing about the Tatra!

Meanwhile, more progress on the EMKO:

I would like to ask what is the variant of swing axle suspension used in these Škoda cars. Is it like in the Tatras where the output shafts actually swing inside the differential? Or is it like one in some old VW Beetles that has more typical differential and joints just outside of it allowing the output shafts to change their orientation?
If maybe it is the second case, then the double wishbone approximation should have pivot placement like in the picture. Still, I cannot tell if it could help make the handling more pleasant. I have only made some simple tests on modified XR GT and it would take serious tuning with the rest of car's parameters to draw conclusions.

It seems it's the second variant (from the above description) of swing axle suspension. I must say I have some trouble imagining these mechanical joints in action.
http://skoda-katalog.eu/ekatalog-105-120/images/velke/02_09.jpg
http://skoda-katalog.eu/ekatalog-105-120/images/velke/03_01.jpg

Quote from w126 :

It seems it's the second variant (from the above description) of swing axle suspension. I must say I have some trouble imagining these mechanical joints in action.

Found the same pictures. I would guess that it works similarly to Tatra but not sure. However, it can be easily computed if we know the track and camber values of an empty and a loaded car.

If Tatra passenger cars used the same solution that is in their trucks then what is between shafts connected to wheels is not the actual differential. The differential is shifted longitudinally and it is some variation of spur-gear design, in which one output shaft rotates inside the other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmew5gyt5ow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_(mechanical_device)#Spur-gear_design

Quote from w126 :

If Tatra passenger cars used the same solution that is in their trucks then what is between shafts connected to wheels is not the actual differential. The differential is shifted longitudinally and it is some variation of spur-gear design, in which one output shaft rotates inside the other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmew5gyt5ow
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_(mechanical_device)#Spur-gear_design

Nice find! Yes, this is true for the Tatra 87 (Hanzmund), but it is not true for all Tatra passenger cars, for example the Tatra 57 (Hadimrška) has a different design (crosschecked with manufacturers technical drawings and documentation): https://tatraportal.sk/data/fotogaleria/t77_01.jpg

However, back to Škoda. It seems that Užovka had a very similar axle to the old 1000 MB model. According to this picture https://cdn.aukro.cz/images/sk ... prevodovka-135391452.jpeg, it is different from Tatra designs, so I was wrong. You were right and your double-wishbone-based solution for Užovka (where the pivot placement is not in the centre of the differential) is currently the best one

So, I would suggest your double-wishbone solution for the Užovka, while eMko should use the original trailing arms approximation. This should correspond to the handling difference between both cars IRL. Found some videos, where the suspension is clearly explained (unfortunately it does not have subtitles, but may help Flame): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpArORv2vj4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ_OewK4xsY

Quote from stuchlo :

So, I would suggest your double-wishbone solution for the Užovka, while eMko should use the original trailing arms approximation. This should correspond to the handling difference between both cars IRL. Found some videos, where the suspension is clearly explained (unfortunately it does not have subtitles, but may help Flame): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpArORv2vj4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ_OewK4xsY

Do you suggest to do it like this? It still handles bad, the inner wheel keeps lifting while cornering I'd like to make it handle reasonably well while maintaining the difference between the two suspension types, but I don't know how to approach it. If you want I can send you the share zip file and you can play around with it and I can then add you as a collaborator

Quote from Flame CZE :

Do you suggest to do it like this? It still handles bad, the inner wheel keeps lifting while cornering I'd like to make it handle reasonably well while maintaining the difference between the two suspension types, but I don't know how to approach it. If you want I can send you the share zip file and you can play around with it and I can then add you as a collaborator

Actually, this looks very good! These cars were not designed to be driven flat-out Here is a video of Škoda 100 (which has almost the same suspension) and it does a very similar thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fd-WWpRdV8c. I have the same problem with the Hanzmund mod and found two solutions to decrease the lifting a little. Firstly the suspension can be made stiffer and secondly the tires can be over-pressured to produce less grip. The tires in LFS have much more grip then the historical ones, which increases the lift as the outer wheel tries to get under the car during cornering.

It is only a suggestion. There is always a compromise between realism and good handling, when recreating a real car and the swing axle will not handle as good as your original solution, so it is up to you, to keep the mod how you like it If you like, I am opened to cooperation, but must admit, that I have never driven these IRL. However, I will try to contact one happy owner, who has Škodas with both swing and trailing axles. Heard he likes to talk about his cars a lot, so will ask him about handling on the limit (if he dared to try ). If I will get some useful information, will post it here.

edit: I have almost forgotten. There is also a third solution which I have used in the Hanzmund mod. A higher center point of aerodynamics combined with higher side drag can also influence the lift of a swing axle. But I am not sure if it is relevant for Škoda, as the Tatra had a big tail fin.

Interesting insight with that video, now I get it It would be nice if you could get some feedback from someone who has driven these IRL

EMKO is up for review: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/105761-EMKO

It uses the new gauge backing texture, so make sure to use the test patch for best experience.

EMKO has been published: https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/6FCA58

I did a short drive. The missing aspect I see is that I think the front side remains light, so I don't know anymore, it wants to move left and right more than I know. Other than that, the vehicle is very good.

EMKO is perfect! Looks good, feels good. I have only one little bugreport. There are small see-through holes around the right front headlight.

Grandpa had a white one. Unfortunately, I have never driven it. Thanks for this mod

I drove the car for several thousands kilometers on cruise server. The handling is good. It's fun to drive it like is stolen. At the same time not getting too dangerous for others, because the 40-ish hp. Sounds pleasant and accurate for me. It shift gears quite well on automatic tho. I like it overall. Thank you for your job on this mod!

I've made a quick rusty skin for it:

Maybe have some scribbled red marker or tape on the RPM gauge.
(As if someone had marked the best upshift point)

Also maybe have the trailer hitch only in the config with roof gear rack?
If I was to race this car, those two things would be my first changes.
(some applies for EMKO)

Quote from Gutholz :

Maybe have some scribbled red marker or tape on the RPM gauge.
(As if someone had marked the best upshift point)

Good idea

Quote from Gutholz :

]Also maybe have the trailer hitch only in the config with roof gear rack?
If I was to race this car, those two things would be my first changes.
(some applies for EMKO)

Sounds good, I will try to make use of all 8 possible configurations with the next update

In fact I've added a "police" config on my local version of EMKO, which has an extra light that can be toggled using the new D50 command /light extra on/off/toggle

EMKO updated!

Dashboard:

Fuel warning light
Low beam light
Rear fog light
Engine damage light

New configurations:

DEFAULT: no extra accessories
RCK+FOG+TOW: roof rack, rear fog light, tow hitch
RACK+LOUVRE: roof rack, rear fog light, tow hitch, rear window louvres
LOUVRES: rear window louvres
LOUVRES+FOG: rear fog light, rear window louvres
ALL: roof rack, rear fog light, tow hitch, rear window louvres, vinyl roof
POLICE: extra blue light beacon on the roof
POLICE+FOG: extra blue light beacon on the roof, rear fog light

Exterior:

Customizable secondary color (hood, trunk, doors)
Rear fog light swaps with driver side
Updated rims
FIX: Reduced see-through gaps between front grille, fender and hood
FIX: Reduced gaps from inside between doors

Interior:

EMKO badge on steering wheel

Any good tuning suggestions for this vehicle? I play with the keyboard and since the front is light and high, it moves left and right enough to change lanes. This is how I set it myself now.
I'm open to suggestions
https://imgur.com/a/b8GA8Oc

what happened with Uzovka and Emko?

It got unpublished because the rims were over the limit. I'm working on reducing the limit.

EMKO is published again with reduced triangles of the spoke object.

Some progress on the dashboard for UZOVKA with the classic S style gauges.



Real life:

UZOVKA updated and re-published

new classic S type gagues
reduced number of triangles of wheel objects
new configurations with tow hitch / vinyl / roof rack

The instrument cluster seems to be stuck to the left when I set driving side to the right?

Oops, my bad, it's fixed now.

Was messing about with skins and noticed the Left and Right sides in EMKO don't match/aren't the same. Skin mapping-wise its the current problem I see so far.

EMKO
Right - 1496 x 441
Left - 1525 x 441

Same applies for the UZOVKA

UZOVKA
Right - 1477 x 436
Left - 1506 x 436

Thanks for that, I have fixed it and published updates to both mods.