I don't see why we NEED new physics, LFS has had the same physics for quite a while (I know some tweaks have come out in the past, additions and removal [track :c ]) however people are used to them now, people are fast too.

I agree with Mikus, focus on new content at a more consistent rate, then when the game is back alive then focus on the long-term.

(Or just open modding support now then no new content actually needs to be made) [I'm joking on that last part don't shoot me}

Quote from cargame.nl :

Ehrm.. I am about the have a drive in my real car... Guess how you feel the road in a real car?

Or a better example is maybe a kart.

I know how it feel, for your information i have a real car ....i have 2 different feelings, 1-come from steering wheel, 2 -come from a chassi or body (Yes, I know how to separate them), I FEEL MORE TRACK SURFACE IN MY BODY THAN ON MY HANDS, so im not searching for some "unreal effects " in my virtual steering wheel.Dont hate me because im a Drifter (no, im not for cruise)
but i can feel more than you "drift cars" on LFS,I drive until the tires pop man. I'm sure you do not know better than I how flat it is when are hot and still i feeling the track.yes, in some moment are unreal,i never saying they are perfect.

Quote from Huskii :

I don't see why we NEED new physics ...

Because it's so far off from the real thing? I mean mostly the temperatures and wear and grip dynamics modified by those. The carcass movement is already quite good, doesn't feel that much off the real thing, but once you would try to play a bit with pressure and driving style to achieve certain temperature, the current physics doesn't resemble any vehicle + tire compound I know. (that said, I don't know too many, basically just karts with few different compounds, but judging from the feedback over years the big cars are quite off too).

If you don't race in real life, you can get probably easily used to the current LFS physics, as for a game it's OK. But once you will try to use your real life knowledge, it will break on too many occasions (of course one would not expect the simulation to be perfect - if it would be perfect, there are some people like F1 teams who would pay Scawen obscene amount of money for perfect one ... still if it breaks too early and too easily, it's a bit annoying).

Plus I'm personally looking forward for more surface simulation updates, like wet/dirty/temperature of surface, ideally combined with "live tract" evolving during the event (picking up rubber bits over time outside of racing line, getting sticky with rubber in the racing line, and getting "green" after rain).

Quote from Ped7g :

Because it's so far off from the real thing? I mean mostly the temperatures and wear and grip dynamics modified by those. The carcass movement is already quite good, doesn't feel that much off the real thing, but once you would try to play a bit with pressure and driving style to achieve certain temperature, the current physics doesn't resemble any vehicle + tire compound I know. (that said, I don't know too many, basically just karts with few different compounds, but judging from the feedback over years the big cars are quite off too).

If you don't race in real life, you can get probably easily used to the current LFS physics, as for a game it's OK. But once you will try to use your real life knowledge, it will break on too many occasions (of course one would not expect the simulation to be perfect - if it would be perfect, there are some people like F1 teams who would pay Scawen obscene amount of money for perfect one ... still if it breaks too early and too easily, it's a bit annoying).

Plus I'm personally looking forward for more surface simulation updates, like wet/dirty/temperature of surface, ideally combined with "live tract" evolving during the event (picking up rubber bits over time outside of racing line, getting sticky with rubber in the racing line, and getting "green" after rain).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37E0e0HEdIA&index=60&list=LLe7lsj2T1UOI469ooHrwxww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmy4FcMHF7w&t=4s&index=61&list=LLe7lsj2T1UOI469ooHrwxww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNYUkRKslEw&index=62&list=LLe7lsj2T1UOI469ooHrwxww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA3e77HR24A

Thermal camera footage. Yes.. That was pretty hot to see... Massive cooldown and heatup of tires.. Much different then the LFS system where it takes 15 years to cool the tires down when they got overheated.

Cool to see the track surface / air cooling down the tyres. It seems in LFS time is the only factor.

Some folks may not know: In LFS in F9 view, hold CTRL + Shift to see surface temp. It differs from thread temp and heat up / cool down way faster. It's easier to watch in replay on burnouts, powerslides etc.
I don't know how it affect grip.

The problem with heating in current phys is IMO tyre thread being too fat (too much heat capacity). That's why it take long to get them work and cool down when overheated.

Quote from pasibrzuch :

In LFS in F9 view, hold CTRL + Shift to see surface temp.

Didn't know that cntrl shift different temps. But I doubt it's surface becourse those temps also get hotter every every lap. In a xrg temps about 3 degrees below tire temp.

So now I wonder what that temperature is?

Quote from RC-Maus :

Didn't know that cntrl shift different temps. But I doubt it's surface becourse those temps also get hotter every every lap. In a xrg temps about 3 degrees below tire temp.

So now I wonder what that temperature is?

I meant surface of a tyre. Try a burnout in GTR or Formula 1 car and watch the replay, pause and compare the temps shown with ctrl+shift.

Aha Never to old to learn

Quote from pasibrzuch :

Some folks may not know: In LFS in F9 view, hold CTRL + Shift to see surface temp. It differs from thread temp and heat up / cool down way faster. It's easier to watch in replay on burnouts, powerslides etc.
I don't know how it affect grip.

The problem with heating in current phys is IMO tyre thread being too fat (too much heat capacity). That's why it take long to get them work and cool down when overheated.

It looks like LFS surface temps behave pretty similar to the F1 videos. It would be nice if we had the setup option of shaving tyres down for shorter races, or saving tyres from race to race.

Quote from bobloblaw :

It looks like LFS surface temps behave pretty similar to the F1 videos. It would be nice if we had the setup option of shaving tyres down for shorter races, or saving tyres from race to race.

Pretty sure the ability to grab a scrubbed/used set of tyres for this very purpose will be on Scawen's radar once he eventually finishes the physics.

Allocating a set number of tyres per event or having the requirement to use the same set of tyres between race and quali is present in many forms of motorsport, including F1, therefore it should be present in a sim that values realism, like LFS.

https://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Display#F9_F10_F11_F12
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A problem when comparing to the F1 thermal images is that they never include a temperature scale.
We do not know at what temperatures it fades to next colors. The color-mapping might not even be linear and could be different between races or teams..

Quote from Gutholz :

https://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Display#F9_F10_F11_F12
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A problem when comparing to the F1 thermal images is that they never include a temperature scale.
We do not know at what temperatures it fades to next colors. The color-mapping might not even be linear and could be different between races or teams..

It constantly changes. It's there to show relative temperature not actual temperature.

At 3:20 the car is sat on the grid, tyres cooling. The camera is no longer seeing those higher peak temperatures caused by lock-ups/weaving etc and the scaling is adjusted to show that, yes, the tyres are indeed still hot.

The tyres don't lose all temperature through curva grande (same vid, 0:39) but because of the peak temperature caused by the lock ups occupying the white end of the scale, I suppose the relative temperature of the tyre at that stage is low.

Quote from mbutcher :

Pretty sure the ability to grab a scrubbed/used set of tyres for this very purpose will be on Scawen's radar once he eventually finishes the physics.

Allocating a set number of tyres per event or having the requirement to use the same set of tyres between race and quali is present in many forms of motorsport, including F1, therefore it should be present in a sim that values realism, like LFS.

I hope so. Server owners could come up with some great stuff with this ability.

Apart from this, has anyone found out why similar road cars feel so different between most popular sims? AC, RF2 and LFS - in each one the outputs differs for the similar(or even same) inputs. AC is a terrible mess imo, regardless of how cool the content is, physics are totally ****ed up, it's not even close to real car. LFS feels like there's something wrong with inertia, also the tires feels weird, they tend to have waaay too high slip angles. It's impossible to lose traction at front axle in an oversteer action, you just have to countersteer and no matter what speed it will save your ass. In rF2 it's the other way around. For example - NSX Type R feels like a two tons boat, even the Miata feels weird and hard to control once in a slide without having like 40 degrees of steering lock.
My conclusions: merging rF2 and LFS could give us a perfect sim (in terms of physics and UI). I would love to hear your thoughts, especially if you have had some experience behind the real wheel.
Forgot to add: never played iRacing tho, so it could be the 'golden mean'.

Someone tried to tell me when he took his car to a track it was easier to drift once the tires "warmed up"...I later considered he could have heat-cycled them enough times to harden them...other than that I can't imagine a reason a tire would lose such a substantial percentage of it's grip without dipping it in some kind of acid or setting it out in the sun for 20 years between laps.

Quote from mbutcher :

...use the same set of tyres between race and quali...

Damage too please, while we're wishlisting - some way to load/save the suspension and engine damage so that it can be carried between races. Preferably through insim to open up a world of possibilities.

Quote from mosquitohater93 :

Someone tried to tell me when he took his car to a track it was easier to drift once the tires "warmed up"...I later considered he could have heat-cycled them enough times to harden them...other than that I can't imagine a reason a tire would lose such a substantial percentage of it's grip without dipping it in some kind of acid or setting it out in the sun for 20 years between laps.

What is happening is that the surface of the tyre gets that hot it starts to melt slightly, so effectively you are 'skating' on top of a layer of molten rubber.

It rly depends the compound and tyre layout but also surface. Despite being captain obvious, I was thinking what would be closest real life tyre that would behave like tyres in LFS?

lol jk

loool

But serious how long for new test patch?

Or will it be X-mas present?

Which christmas ???

Seem's pointless waiting for damage/weather/ etc updates given the current update pace.

The tyre physics update has been a ten year wait so far, and with no date for even a test patch.

Just settle for LFS as it is and any future update is simply a bonus.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

no date for even a test patch.

Remember the last time when date was announced? Devs obviously don't want to repeat that.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

Just settle for LFS as it is and any future update is simply a bonus.

That's the spirit!