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GT1WS 2013: Round 4 Discussion
(208 posts, started )
Quote from Hahmo :I understand having the meal part and so on, but it was 20+ minutes that deko was looking for your representative, and within that 20 minutes you had already taken me out - -

I don't know when this happened, but I was the irc rep most of the time. At first I thought I was in the wrong channel because it was just flooding with chitchat and unimportant commentary. It was very hard to filter important messages from all the bs. At first I didn't have team tag in my nick but my teammates soon suggested to correct my wrong. I wasn't pm'd or highlighted on channel about lag or the penalty for lag contact, so if irc was used to communicate this stuff, organizers are at fault for allowing irrelevant commentary and some childish arguing to flood out all the important stuff. Get a dedicated and moderated channel next time, keep #ndr for offtopic please.
You instigated an argument, if Cooper gets something for it, expect to get the same thing.

Oh, and grow up.
@ RaudSepp :

It's quite normal for drivers to iron out some issues in chat after a race with a simple apology or what not or maybe an explanation to what the hell you were playing at. Not to mention what happened in the test race against Wojtowiak, which brought my attention to your defensive 'STYLE' in the first place.

We had a clean battle afterwards but I let you go because I wasn't interested in losing anymore time in that battle and you were abit quicker at this time. I don't know maybe there's some personal issues in your life, and that's cool, we all have them at some points in our lives but lose the attitude and it won't carry into your driving.



:twocents:
Quote from Ramla :I don't know when this happened, but I was the irc rep most of the time. At first I thought I was in the wrong channel because it was just flooding with chitchat and unimportant commentary. It was very hard to filter important messages from all the bs. At first I didn't have team tag in my nick but my teammates soon suggested to correct my wrong. I wasn't pm'd or highlighted on channel about lag or the penalty for lag contact, so if irc was used to communicate this stuff, organizers are at fault for allowing irrelevant commentary and some childish arguing to flood out all the important stuff. Get a dedicated and moderated channel next time, keep #ndr for offtopic please.

PM...and at that time it was the only topic of discussion

Niki that's not personnal. You aren't responsible of a bad connection. Not really blaming you exept the fact Ixion didn't have an active representative. However just one simple question(not an attack), didn't you realize you were laggy?
Quote from MoMo92i :PM...and at that time it was the only topic of discussion

Niki that's not personnal. You aren't responsible of a bad connection. Not really blaming you exept the fact Ixion didn't have an active representative. However just one simple question(not an attack), didn't you realize you were laggy?

not posting for niki here but he never lags and rarely times out. so last thing he would check is if he lagging around tbh

we expected the elton/michel to be the laggys ones
Probably similar story as I had in first round. That lag came out of nowhere and it was cured without doing anything as well...
Karl are you actually protesting yourself as well for instigating stupid BS?
Quote from Ramla :I don't know when this happened, but I was the irc rep most of the time. At first I thought I was in the wrong channel because it was just flooding with chitchat and unimportant commentary. It was very hard to filter important messages from all the bs. At first I didn't have team tag in my nick but my teammates soon suggested to correct my wrong. I wasn't pm'd or highlighted on channel about lag or the penalty for lag contact, so if irc was used to communicate this stuff, organizers are at fault for allowing irrelevant commentary and some childish arguing to flood out all the important stuff. Get a dedicated and moderated channel next time, keep #ndr for offtopic please.

It is always prudent to review the previous several lines of chat if you step away or go a long time without reviewing the IRC chat. It will not be moderated to control messages only, it is a place for communication of many types during the race. I have in past removed people from the channel for being very annoying / hogging the channels. But you should

When I ask "Is anyone here from {Team X}?" I don't always expect that person to reply, I usually get someone who knows who it is to say "It's [user]." And then I say their name in the channel to highlight them. .

If someone has a team tag and was active lately, I would feel confident in PMing them in IRC. But since you didn't have a team tag and I didn't make any connection in a pass, and I shouldn't need to go into the master teams list during the race to find a manager's name to look for it in IRC, then it's not just my fault.

And I go for IRC first because you can talk to the driver directly. I have to chat in server, which is a distraction. I reserve directly messaging a driver in server for SC periods, and a last resort if no IRC rep responds.

I always give a nice window of opportunity for response in IRC because I do understand that people aren't constantly checking it, but a team manager has a responsibility to review the last minutes of activity from messages from those in control. Usually they'll be opped, or you can otherwise tell who are the ones to look for.

Of course, general chitchat about non race-related things should be kept to a minimum / private, but any discussion of the race itself can be relevant. If anyone in the commentary box or talking with anyone in the comms box is reading it, it can improve that.
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(Franky.S) DELETED by Franky.S : gaylord
It was just that sort of rotten luck moment that he was away exactly at moments when he was finally needed. We will change this next time and make sure you don't need to be PM'ing us in the first place for anything. Simple as that.

Now, let's move to better things. We're sort-of proud of Sixth being our result for our first 24hours race. Leading the 24hours race and keeping the lead all the way until the safety car was definately highlight to remember for us.

The rest of the race was struggle with various attacks of rotten luck having a revenge at us for having forced our way at the start. However, we will root the rotten luck out of our dimension and finish where we deserve to be, when we get there.
Quote from MoMo92i :PM...and at that time it was the only topic of discussion

Niki that's not personnal. You aren't responsible of a bad connection. Not really blaming you exept the fact Ixion didn't have an active representative. However just one simple question(not an attack), didn't you realize you were laggy?

actually, I have had it where I was lagging on my end and not on the other's end (see kyoto 250 2011?) I ended up driving through my teammate because everyone lagged out on my end and I was fine on their end. I have also seen it where people have lagged and they can still get hit but cannot hit others. So its highly possible his upload was just slow or something
Quote from Mustangman759 :actually, I have had it where I was lagging on my end and not on the other's end (see kyoto 250 2011?) I ended up driving through my teammate because everyone lagged out on my end and I was fine on their end. I have also seen it where people have lagged and they can still get hit but cannot hit others. So its highly possible his upload was just slow or something

That was before update. Now you can see your ping is significantly higher than everyone else's. It's common decency if you are lagging to either change drivers or not fight with cars that are a lap ahead of you, we lost half a stint because Sean was lagging and whilst we knew he wouldn't time out we changed drivers.
Quote from vipex123 :it's time to give up.

SHIFT+F. Move on. :riceboy:
Quote from dekojester :not my fault

As the guy doing the communication with in-race driver of our car I have other things to keep track of than the flood in the channel. I assume you didn't even read it unless you got highlighted as you had more important stuff as well, so you don't really even know. I imagine F1 team roadies don't broadcast their thoughts on the race on the same frequency as the teams and race organizers and marshals or whatever they're called, pardon my finglish. However, the broadcasters have time to watch ten monitors, listen to radio feeds and hear comments from personnel on the pitlane, they are really in no hurry to see everything in one feed. This should be no exception in esports.

I expected to idle on a channel and if I saw any kind of activity, it would be relevant to at least one team. As it were, one out of maybe 50 lines was relevant to a team.

If I knew what I was facing when I was asked for IRC duty I would have suggested ixion to have a whole IRC crew online at any time. Really, you need to fix this shit for future events.
Quote from vipex123 :That was before update. Now you can see your ping is significantly higher than everyone else's. It's common decency if you are lagging to either change drivers or not fight with cars that are a lap ahead of you, we lost half a stint because Sean was lagging and whilst we knew he wouldn't time out we changed drivers.

If you want to buy me a house in England then our pings will be lower.
edit: just realized you were talking about NIKI. But still :P
Quote from Ramla :As the guy doing the communication with in-race driver of our car I have other things to keep track of than the flood in the channel. I assume you didn't even read it unless you got highlighted as you had more important stuff as well, so you don't really even know. I imagine F1 team roadies don't broadcast their thoughts on the race on the same frequency as the teams and race organizers and marshals or whatever they're called, pardon my finglish. However, the broadcasters have time to watch ten monitors, listen to radio feeds and hear comments from personnel on the pitlane, they are really in no hurry to see everything in one feed. This should be no exception in esports.

I expected to idle on a channel and if I saw any kind of activity, it would be relevant to at least one team. As it were, one out of maybe 50 lines was relevant to a team.

If I knew what I was facing when I was asked for IRC duty I would have suggested ixion to have a whole IRC crew online at any time. Really, you need to fix this shit for future events.

I must agree, maybe have 2 different irc channels. or people can just use the stream chat to discuss stuff
Or maybe just use teamtags. PROBLEM FIXED, next?
#118 - CSF
If we are all doing this protesting my feelings thing, can I ask for Mustangman759 and the other guy he was arguing with for no reason to be banned for 10 years too?

Thanks.
tbh, if you were paying attention to the team chat you could see what deko was saying. Plus there was the race audio, so no real excuse IMO.
Quote from dekojester :Jacob "BlueFlame" Cooper is attempting to criticize the actions of a driver. Karl "TypeRacing" Raudsepp excessively reacts with sarcastic and caustic comments, which caused the conversation to devolve into what it did. Those attitudes are what are wrong. Drivers should be willing to accept criticism from fellow competitors and admins without issue. It is a way to know what you need to work on.

All of that said, the following shall be levied:

Driver Karl "TypeRacing" Raudsepp placed on 6 months NDR probation for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Driver Jacob "BlueFlame" Cooper placed on 6 months NDR probation for unsportsmanlike conduct.

Hang on a second... I saw the comments involved, after watching the race, and Cooper's comments to Raudsepp weren't probation-worthy in my opinion. It is mentioned that Raudsepp handled the comments in a childlike manner, and from my view - that is without doubt the case.

"Drivers should be willing to accept criticism from fellow competitors and admins without issue. It is a way to know what you need to work on."

So why is it the case the driver giving the criticism gets the same treatment as the guy who can't accept it? That doesn't compute to me at all. Comments like "STFU Then" And such, after a driver points out a flaw, and even states that he won't make a protest are unnecessary. Cooper was mearly stating his point of view.

I don't mean to dive into this on what may appear to be a biased viewpoint, but the whole debacle doesn't lend itself to punishing both involved.
Quote from Crankarm :Hang on a second... I saw the comments involved, after watching the race, and Cooper's comments to Raudsepp weren't probation-worthy in my opinion. It is mentioned that Raudsepp handled the comments in a childlike manner, and from my view - that is without doubt the case.

"Drivers should be willing to accept criticism from fellow competitors and admins without issue. It is a way to know what you need to work on."

So why is it the case the driver giving the criticism gets the same treatment as the guy who can't accept it? That doesn't compute to me at all. Comments like "STFU Then" And such, after a driver points out a flaw, and even states that he won't make a protest are unnecessary. Cooper was mearly stating his point of view.

I don't mean to dive into this on what may appear to be a biased viewpoint, but the whole debacle doesn't lend itself to punishing both involved.

Cooper: "you won't learn how NOT to be a tit"

That is a personal insult, not criticizing specific actions or referring to an action, it is referring to the action AND the person.

It is also fueling the arguement, which is of itself unsporting. A probation would have been lighter had he kept on a higher road. But giving it back, no matter how lightly, merited the same / at least similar penalty.

A reminder, a Probation is a NOTICE to shape up the behaviour (On and/or Off the track) - NOT an exclusion. It is usually the last step or a step to attempt to allow correction proven rapidly instead of a time-out first.
I think all teams have been sufficiently provided with race control messages: On irc you can easily hilight deko or boothy who don't speak much apart from what is necessary. Or you can hilight your own team number. Or name. You've had the race control audio feed. Or if you don't have the manpower to watch irc, the ts server has been an option. I can't see how that's insufficient.

In my opinion a second irc channel as a well-meaning improvement suggestion would be okay. But the statement a few posts above is quite malicious and ill-mannered.
Quote from Ramla :As the guy doing the communication with in-race driver of our car I have other things to keep track of than the flood in the channel. I assume you didn't even read it unless you got highlighted as you had more important stuff as well, so you don't really even know. I imagine F1 team roadies don't broadcast their thoughts on the race on the same frequency as the teams and race organizers and marshals or whatever they're called, pardon my finglish. However, the broadcasters have time to watch ten monitors, listen to radio feeds and hear comments from personnel on the pitlane, they are really in no hurry to see everything in one feed. This should be no exception in esports.

I expected to idle on a channel and if I saw any kind of activity, it would be relevant to at least one team. As it were, one out of maybe 50 lines was relevant to a team.

If I knew what I was facing when I was asked for IRC duty I would have suggested ixion to have a whole IRC crew online at any time. Really, you need to fix this shit for future events.

Fyi , in F1 team radios are public, basically teams have at least three channels :
- pit to pit
- pit to car
- pit to race director

If you weren't happy with irc you could have still listen the race director radio or actually just watched remote. Anyway that's kind of useless and I think you got the point to have several guys on irc . You did a good race gratz and keep going!
The other thing with being constructive with criticism is to avoid the usage of pronouns.

Saying what someone did was stupid would be okay (You cut me off), and having useful discussion on that – to a point of course. if both viewpoints are at polar opposites, it's best to agree to disagree rather than continue with a cyclical argument/disagreement.

It's once you start to attack the individual person, calling them names or insulting their character in some way.. is where the line should be drawn. If you are unable to actually give criticism to someone regarding anything really (not reserved to racing) without insulting the person directly.. you're best to not give criticism at all.

I'm a totally unrelated party to the whole mess, but from having years and years of experience with officiating sports and having dealt with heated disputes and penalizing accordingly, these are the things that make sense.
Your sigquote is so true :lovies:

GT1WS 2013: Round 4 Discussion
(208 posts, started )
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