Maybe an idiot with bad tyres and a shitty car?
Hey, I have new tyres now 
is it so difficult to remember when to shift? you could even have visual references on the track to remind you to change gear.
"When to shift" is a topic where the majority has an opinion that's a mix of factoids - "you can shift by ear" being one of them.
The way the LFS shiftlight worked and interacted with the gear-ratios illustrated nicely which factors determine the ideal shiftpoint.
The truth is what does not contradict facts that are acknowledged as true.
The factoid of finding the ideal shiftpoint by ear can be disproved with one simple example - provided the audience understands the logic behind it (or simple logic at all) and knows a bit about powercurves and stuff.
... which is not the case. I may sound like an arrogant prick (which doesn't bother me at the end of the day), but there really is no point in explaining things to people who don't even read the posts.
The way the LFS shiftlight worked and interacted with the gear-ratios illustrated nicely which factors determine the ideal shiftpoint.
The truth is what does not contradict facts that are acknowledged as true.
The factoid of finding the ideal shiftpoint by ear can be disproved with one simple example - provided the audience understands the logic behind it (or simple logic at all) and knows a bit about powercurves and stuff.
... which is not the case. I may sound like an arrogant prick (which doesn't bother me at the end of the day), but there really is no point in explaining things to people who don't even read the posts.
I meant it in a literal sense, that if the engine is going 'AAAAAARRRGGHHHH' and valve bouncing to oblivion then its obvious that you need to change gear! 
Why not just explain it?
Maybe those who don't understand your posts will understand them afterwards.
The shift light is gone. Pick an RPM and shift there. End of thread.
^^^^^
I agree with him!
Bandit is right on one point...98% of the people saying "dude use the engine sound duh" would be wrong at FINDING the exact shift points. Good drivers wouldn't be THAT far off finding by sound/feel. Only a couple tenths per lap off but still off.
Of course when you have the light at first and get used to the sound/speed at which you get off of each gear it's easy to apply without the shift light anymore.
The point is, Bandit, that you won't find that feature in any RL road car.
Of course when you have the light at first and get used to the sound/speed at which you get off of each gear it's easy to apply without the shift light anymore.
The point is, Bandit, that you won't find that feature in any RL road car.
So ultimately it doesn't matter then does it. If everybody's off by a bit then nobody's gaining an advantage, or perhaps "good drivers" gain a small advantage, but that's to be expected in a racing simulator.
if you're referring to the shift light still, say that to the stock mazda mx3 my cousin used to own. it had a shift light.
Lights at constant RPM or varies depending on which gear you are? VERY interesting if it's the latter.
well i think if you play this game, you enjoy cars obviously. And most people that know cars tell by the engine sounds when to shift. At least i do
But by shifting 0.2 seconds later, you don't lose 0.2 seconds at the end of the straight. You aren't doing 0mph for those 0.2 seconds, you are still travelling at the same speed (pretty much). Shifting 0.2 seconds late probably costs in the region of 0.0000001 seconds per lap.
Bandit is saying that from engine noise alone you cannot tell whether you'd have more torque/power in the next gear than you do currently. You eventually associate a certain engine noise with what feels quicker, or what is quicker on the stopwatch, but engine noise alone doesn't tell you the optimum gear change point. If I played you a sound clip of my engine revving from 2000rpm to 8000rpm, you could not tell when the ideal shift point is.
I find it fairly hard to tell when the cars are beyond their powerband with the new version... I don't have that problem IRL, but when my body isn't experiencing any forces, I find it pretty difficult. In addition to that, LFS doesn't even give you a dyno graph for the cars - which I think is ridiculous.
No one has even brought up the point of when you're nailing it out of a corner and you have a ridiculously loud car next to you, you can barely even hear your car.
I rarely get to the limiter in LFS but I find I'm over-revving the motor a fair bit of the time with the new version.
And while it's fairly realistic, I find it pretty annoying that most of the LFS cars seem to have tachos situated so that the needle is almost horizontal when you need to be looking at it, not like the good old 60s touring cars with tachos mounted on weird angles to make them as close to your eye's focus at critical points.
My car has a shift light, and with a street exhaust I think it's a necessity when you're racing. And it's worth 3/10ths down the quarter as well
No one has even brought up the point of when you're nailing it out of a corner and you have a ridiculously loud car next to you, you can barely even hear your car.
I rarely get to the limiter in LFS but I find I'm over-revving the motor a fair bit of the time with the new version.
And while it's fairly realistic, I find it pretty annoying that most of the LFS cars seem to have tachos situated so that the needle is almost horizontal when you need to be looking at it, not like the good old 60s touring cars with tachos mounted on weird angles to make them as close to your eye's focus at critical points.
My car has a shift light, and with a street exhaust I think it's a necessity when you're racing. And it's worth 3/10ths down the quarter as well
Again, does that shift light come on at a preset rpm value, or does it actually take the torque in the current and next gear into account to decide when to shift?
I was previously aware of everything you just said Tristan, with the exception of lost time per lap - which you've underestimated a little.
Preset RPM of course, why would it need to be that specific? As long as my motor is significantly past making its peak power & torque, and it's going to be inside its vague & wide powerband (big inline six with a mild cam profile in my case) in the next gear (manufacturer's gearbox has reasonably well spaced ratios), why not shift?
Also I don't have a rev limiter in my car, and when I'm doing a burnout and potentially skating over different road surfaces, the revs fluctuate a fair bit and I want to be ontop of my game as far as avoiding excessive RPM
I could get a shift light that works your way but as far as I'm concerned it's a waste of time and money; about five times the cost and a lot harder to setup amongst other things... cars for me are a hobby not a profession
So schumacher is in F1 car was a girl using the shift light ?.
And what about rally drivers, they are girls too then ?
What your saying everyone using a shiftlight is a girl ?
Thats such a stupid post, nothing else to do ?.
Back top the topic, i do have the shift light on but I listen to the revs of the engine. However the shift light is more accurate and is there. Indeed a shame it is dropped out of roadcars but on the other hand I dont see many real roadcars with them. We have to adapt, nothing more nothing less.
You all make it sound like the absence of a shift light means you have to listen to the engine. 
What about the tach? Isn't that why it's there? You have to look at it to see the light anyway. It's not any more difficult than looking at the light and it's more precise than listening to the sound. I don't see how anyone can really be precise just by sound. I listen to the engine too, but I shift based on the position of the tach needle/lights.
My RX-7 makes a loud beep noise at redline. I usually shift slightly before that, but it's an interesting and useful feature.
What about the tach? Isn't that why it's there? You have to look at it to see the light anyway. It's not any more difficult than looking at the light and it's more precise than listening to the sound. I don't see how anyone can really be precise just by sound. I listen to the engine too, but I shift based on the position of the tach needle/lights. My RX-7 makes a loud beep noise at redline. I usually shift slightly before that, but it's an interesting and useful feature.
Sorry to interrupt, but all around here asking about power curves and when to shift could take a look at this post / excellent work by Bogey Jammer:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1250513#post1250513
Everything you wish for in the excel spreadsheet! It should have been provided by the devs in my opinion, but it is here and done - use it!
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1250513#post1250513
Everything you wish for in the excel spreadsheet! It should have been provided by the devs in my opinion, but it is here and done - use it!
lol actually my shift light is nearly 20mm in diameter, very bright and pointed directly at my face... I notice when it comes on regardless of where I am looking.
That link was rather interesting, wish the graphs' x-axes were in RPM rather than rad/sec. I've got no idea how he could have calculated all that...
Still want the devs to provide some better tools for selecting gear ratios, I've seen some programs that have a little chart showing what each RPM drop will be etc, very cool, could be creative and really set LFS apart from some others with a good system there
It's fine the way it is now.
A mis-shift of 0,2 second is common thing for typical driver or racer I think.
Actually if you mis-shift by 1 second and have 3km/h less at the same point of track you will have 3km/h less for 20 seconds on straight. If you had 3km/h more for 20 seconds you would travel 16 metres more, and that's what loose at the end of the straight.
Get avg speed of 150km/h which is 42m/s and you loose 0,38 seconds per blackwood straight.
I guess it will be less in real, but still.
Actually, this also depends on the powercurve. If it drops instantly to 0 withing a couple of revs after the ideal shiftpoint, you'd better not miss it. If the powercurve is relatively flat, it's not THAT critical. And the LFS road cars appear to have quite flat curves around peak power.
Where's the shift light?
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