There was an "incident" that took place at the GT2 start of this round. MoE admins told me I was wrong. I think that's bullshit and this is the story.

NIKI started lining up to our car with more and more overlap coming from last turn onto the straight, at one point he even hit Norbi when going past the right side "apex" before the pitlane entry (and there was more than enough room to avoid contact). Following screenshots (going down) show the 2nd and the 3rd row of cars PROPERLY lined up as a grid, while NIKI keeps getting closer and closer:

http://www.team-sirius.com/downloads/lfs/O_RLY.jpg

Norbi's only possible reaction to this was to back off the throttle slightly so he would let NIKI know he's getting too close - at which point NIKI was even in front of our car. All of these actions taken by NIKI had a single purpose of messing with the grid at the start and distracting other driver/s at the start - he even confirms this during our MSN chat (log file below).

Quote :

scipy says (17:21):
all other cars are arranged nicely, except yours
so shadap and take responsibility
N I K I says (17:21):
well blah
it's cause they don't know the dirty tricks
scipy says (17:22):
wow
really?
that comment is going into the protest.
N I K I says (17:24):
i was back in on the normal line
when the flag went green
N I K I says (17:24):
and that's the end of the story
scipy says (17:24):
no.. it's not
scipy says (17:25):
becuase u manipulated the grid with ur "tricks"
which is forbidden in the IMSA/ACO rules
N I K I says (17:25):
so what
scipy says (17:25):
on which ALMS is based
which is MoE is based
so now we're gonna add some rules
N I K I says (17:25):
pff which ACO rules
scipy says (17:25):
and next time you'll be getting a stop&go
scipy says (17:25):
you even hit norbi while passing the pitlane entry
scipy says (17:26):
and u had almost a full car width to the right
N I K I says (17:26):
pff pff
i touched him a bit
scipy says (17:26):
look, at the start when you're waiting for a green flag
the last thing u need is someone hitting your car
because it breaks ur concentration
which you knew full well.. that's why u did it
scipy says (17:27):
as far as i can see, you still think u've done nothing wrong
N I K I says (17:27):
well.. they can add the rules for the next race, but in this one i was within the rules and that's all i need to know.. as far as me breaking someone's concenetration or not - that's another story and it's completley unimportant to me
scipy says (17:27):
but good thing is that's not a pre-requisite for u getting a penalty
N I K I says (17:27):
that even proves how much more i pwned him (norbi)
scipy says (17:27):
ur so wise. great job..
N I K I says (17:27):
he should never lose concentration
but when i pwn someone it's all bla bla
scipy says (17:27):
basically u've just said "rules had a loop hole which i've exploited, i pwnt norbi, well done me"
scipy says (17:27):
so we're gonna do whatever we can to disable u from doing it ever again.

After seeing the replay of the start (after 8-9 laps) I pm'd DWB to tell him we'll be filing a protest against NIKI's behaviour during the start, to which DWB replied with:


So, we didn't file a protest because the rules were vague and innacurate. There is however an interesting quote from P. Lehto:


After the whole argument with the admins, I took it upon myself to ask all of the MoE 2006/2007 season drivers about the starting procedure and get replays. All of them confirm the same thing: double file just ment you change from single file tire warming to what the grid looks like on a standing start. Also, most of them were in disbeliefe when I told them admins consider it "perfectly fine" if the car in 2nd place has 100 % overlap with the polesitter. I don't want to take up any more space but same was confirmed by Jay, n1lyn, prophet, Sracer, Norbi and the list goes on. For all of you who were "not around" before season 2007/2008 when the administration changed and rules started getting lost in translation here are some screenshot of the grid-arrangment tool and proper spacing: (order of the screenshots is left -> right in rows)

http://www.team-sirius.com/downloads/lfs/2006_KY2_Start.jpg

Also, DWB mentions several times in the 2008/9 season threads that MoE is supposed to be modeled after ALMS and follow the ACO/IMSA rules. So, here is the rulebook for ALMS (2009 version):

http://www.team-sirius.com/dow ... LES%202nd%20ED%20V2.0.pdf

And some of the quotes on rolling starts:

Quote :

6.11 STANDARD ROLLING START

6.11.3 Drivers will keep their original formation behind the pace car during the pace lap(s). On the final
pace lap, at a point designated in the SR or by the Race Director, in normal conditions, the cars
will pair up in their assigned GRID positions. In exceptional conditions, the Race Director may
require a single file start.

6.11.4 After the pace car has left the circuit, Drivers will maintain their positions on the pace lap and
must remain in line (columns) until the display of the green flag by the Official Starter. Once the
green flag has been displayed, racing may begin and passing may occur. It is imperative that the
field be packed up and in proper order approaching the Starter’s Stand. Any car which pulls out of
line or manipulates the pace prior to the display of the green flag pace may be penalized.

And the video of an ALMS rolling start where it's clearly visable that the front end of the 2nd car is lined up with the rear axle/tires of the car in front:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpYmZUpTSJc

Also, I've read a rule in FIA GT rulebook or somewhere yesterday (can't find it to save my life now) which also states that during a rolling start no overtaking can take place until you cross the start/finish line.

To conclude this novel.. Fix your wrong beliefes about "double-file" starts where it's ok to have 100 % overlap with the polesitter because I believe it's in the interest of all teams to keep their good (or bad) qualifying positions. Easiest thing to do probably is to put this up to a vote, do you (as the drivers) want to keep the current "double-file" rule and let the 2nd placed car have the option to equal your starting position.. or do you want there to be PROPER GRIDDING so everyone can keep their deserved positions.

Those were the days, that tool was awesome, so was that Norbi guy...

+1

I agree with Scipy. It's bs to have the cars starting beside one another.

+111

Its endurance racing right? Use real life leagues rules... whats so hard about that? They been ran for whole lot more than this newbishness we try to do in any sim.

Every endu race i ever watched (except ovals... uh is that endu? NO!) starts with either rolling grid which is identical to the stand still start but just rolling.

So ya agree on scipz point here.

No words can describe niki well enough in the way he drove.

Quote from ZanZi :

(except ovals... uh is that endu? NO!)

Left-straight-left-straight
Recuires lots of nerves and patience imo

It should always should be double file e.g. you never should be infront of the guys rear bumper who is position infront of you.

Quote from TexasLTU :

Left-straight-left-straight
Recuires lots of nerves and patience imo

Simple question... have u seen a slim nascar driver? (ot i know)

Nothing personal, but Niki always used his "dirty rules" against others.

You can pwn me before the green flag anytime as long as I pwn you after it

Quote from Norbi :

You can pwn me before the green flag anytime as long as I pwn you after it

Or pwns himself then double pwns himself with the added DT for the action which pwnt him in the first place.

:munching_

Quote from Bawbag :

Or pwns himself then double pwns himself with the added DT for the action which pwnt him in the first place.

That must be a figment of your imagination, Niki wouldn't do such a thing!

I don't know how long will this kind of bs behavior from people who consider LFS as "just another game" be tolerated! I can understand that you can make mistakes (we're all humans after all), maybe even stupid ones like overlapping the polesitter, but admitting that it was a fully deliberate action is just f***ing disgrace to that niki fella, and to ignorant MoE admins who obviously don't know a first thing about fairness, let alone driving a race car. I see that we all agree with scipy on this one, but there really shouldn't have been this kind of a discussion in the first place, and people (can't even call him a driver, nor a man for that matter) like niki should be banned from racing, not for making a mistake but for deliberately going against the rules (even if they are only a common sense, and not written down on some paper) and addmiting to the usege of "dirty tricks". I'm really sorry if I came on to harsh on this poor chop, but ignorant bs like this really pisses me off! Peace out! Thumbs up for scipy's cause!

Omg!!! Croat account in first post shocker!

I see lots of pots and kettle flying about...

Quote from juka :

I don't know how long will this kind of bs behavior from people who consider LFS as "just another game" be tolerated! I can understand that you can make mistakes (we're all humans after all), maybe even stupid ones like overlapping the polesitter, but admitting that it was a fully deliberate action is just f***ing disgrace to that niki fella, and to ignorant MoE admins who obviously don't know a first thing about fairness, let alone driving a race car. I see that we all agree with scipy on this one, but there really shouldn't have been this kind of a discussion in the first place, and people (can't even call him a driver, nor a man for that matter) like niki should be banned from racing, not for making a mistake but for deliberately going against the rules (even if they are only a common sense, and not written down on some paper) and addmiting to the usege of "dirty tricks". I'm really sorry if I came on to harsh on this poor chop, but ignorant bs like this really pisses me off! Peace out! Thumbs up for scipy's cause!

Scipy, is that you?

lol no.. had dinner with a friend from college who plays LFS on and off and told him about the story :P

This whole thing wasn't supposed to get this "heated".. I mean even in my screenshots, there are whole rows of cars who respected the old (unwritten) rules about grid spacing. But I guess you're always gonna have some NIKI-type there to exploit. Guess it's even true for me to some extent That's why I'm not asking for any kind of post-race penalty or whatnot.. just fix the rules so it can be avoided next time.

NIKI found a gray zone...exploited it(excluding the contacts)...now the admins are gonna make it clear. Whether it'll be double-file or rolling grid, from now on it'll be written and that's the way many rules get born in any sport.

I say rolling grid.

I'm astonished by this... I've always thought that it's supposed to be a standing start grid formation but rolling. 100% overlap never ever crossed my mind and now atleast one admin is saying that's been the case this (and last season?) season.

So +1 from me, 100% overlap is total rubbish in my mind. Hopefully this thing gets sorted out now and penalties are given without hesitation if there are infractions in the future.

The admins have taken this suggestion (and the overwhelming results of the poll) under consideration and will make a decision shortly, along with other new/edited rules for round 3 and beyond. Thanks!

You should know better than most that you can't win the race at turn 1, scipy... or maybe you can.

Quote from scipy :

But I guess you're always gonna have some NIKI-type there to exploit. Guess it's even true for me to some extent

To a greater extent, I guess.

My3id GT1 was also sort of jumpstarting being 3/4 aside of Inferno GT1 at the start and only 1cm behind the bumper of the leading car....is it really necessary to drive so closely to each other at the start?

Same oppinion as Scipy here on this one!