Quote from G!NhO :

it has to be very realiable

you do realize were talking about a english car here?
built by turnip farmers probably remotely related to tristan in a shed somewhere in the middle of english nowhere

Elise has a 1.8L 4 cylinder Toyota motor right?

rover actually

No. o_O

edit: yeah i see, from 2004 they got toyota engines.

I both love and hate the Elise, getting into and out of it is like a journey in itself. I can't answer on it's steering angles though as i'm only allowed in the passenger seat grrr.

When it comes to racing cars, i've only once driven a car that could not go from lock to lock without taking my hand off the wheel and that was a saloon pretending to be a touring car, I spun it, ironically, because I lacked the talent to drive quickly with so much wheel turning to do.

So I really dont see the point in getting a sim racing wheel that turns more than the cheaper 270 degree wheels, for me, cars with that much lock are road cars.

Quote from G!NhO :

Oh ok, but is the Elise a good car as my dad might be buying one (probably 10% chance but whatever ), its one of lower price range like ~10K euro and from about 1998. He needs a cheap car that doesnt cost alot of insurance and road tax, and it has to be very realiable unlike a Jeep.

I'd steer clear of the Elise, or indeed any Lotus. I've only known a couple of Lotus owners, both Elises, but in both cases the cars had problems - now that's a small sample but the marque has a reputation (Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious). The reason I would recommend avoiding them though is that from what i've seen when something does go wrong on a Lotus it's mighty expensive to fix. As you've cited cost as a factor i'd suggest a Lotus is not for you.

My single experience of an Elise was replacing the bonnet pull cable (apparently they routinely snap), Lotus couldn't have made this task harder and more fiddly if they tried, it took three of us 2 hours to do it.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I both love and hate the Elise, getting into and out of it is like a journey in itself.

they arent really that low are they?

My Sisters boyfriend has(had? dunno/don't care) a curvy Elise 111s. It was great. 'nuff said.

Back on to the 900 lock issue. The highest in game lock in LFS for any car is 720, this just too low. Many road cars the TBO are based on have lock up in the 1080 area.

As the DFP/G25 top out at 900 and they are the best you will get it makes sense for LX4, LX6?, FZ5, RAC?, TBO, GT, GTi and UF1 to 900.

It has come up a number of times over the years. I did manage to get an answer from Scawen a while back on it and the change requires driver animation changes and will make replays incompatible etc so not sure when it will make it in.

Might be the new VW forces the point because that will not have 720 steering lock!

Quote from Shotglass :

they arent really that low are they?

It's not so much the height, it's the distance from outside to the seat. It's not a quest I would ever embark on when wearing a skirt i'll say that much.

the seats are indeed a bit unusually close to the cars centre line
so what youre really saying then is that i should have bought an elise?

however according to clarkson the elise isnt as good i mean bad as it could be (4:00)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4_OkORHOqY

Quote from Woz :

Back on to the 900 lock issue. The highest in game lock in LFS for any car is 720, this just too low. Many road cars the TBO are based on have lock up in the 1080 area.

For some I'd say even in the 1300-1500 range not many computer wheels can go that far up, and none of them is exactly cheap.

Quote from Woz :

I did manage to get an answer from Scawen a while back on it and the change requires driver animation changes and will make replays incompatible etc so not sure when it will make it in.

He could have made that change along with the interiors/models upgrade which affected replays nonetheless. Since there was no change I assume it's not very high in the list of the priorities or there's some other reason that made him change his mind about making 900° available on those cars.

Quote from Becky Rose :

So I really dont see the point in getting a sim racing wheel that turns more than the cheaper 270 degree wheels, for me, cars with that much lock are road cars.

Not all the cars in racing sims are racing cars.

Quote from MadCat360 :

Not all the cars in racing sims are racing cars.

Lots of racing cars are 400+ degrees, many even closer to 540. Of course you could use 270 but that would also mean using half the car setup steering lock.

Quote from NightShift :

For some I'd say even in the 1300-1500 range not many computer wheels can go that far up, and none of them is exactly cheap.

900 is probably the working best. We have 900 wheels and they are probably the best you will get TBH. Making the lock more will just bugger up the wheel turn comp.

Quote from NightShift :

He could have made that change along with the interiors/models upgrade which affected replays nonetheless. Since there was no change I assume it's not very high in the list of the priorities or there's some other reason that made him change his mind about making 900° available on those cars.

To make the wheel turn 900degs required new driver animations as the current animations run to 720 max. This is why they were held off in the round of patches when the TBO balance was done.

One thing that would complement this (I think?) is to have Scawen add the ability to change the wheels lock from in game (possible as of the latest Profiler drivers, dunno about you Fanatec ****s).

Thanks for the math,but I'll stick to my MoMo Racing(which has 240 degrees of rotation).

Here is a table of real cars, provided the data is accurate.

Quote from Woz :

900 is probably the working best.

Dunno, there's sure space for improvement in the current generation of computer wheels, but my point was merely to point out that 2.5 turns is a bit little for the road cars in LFS. 3.5 would be more like it.

Quote from Woz :

To make the wheel turn 900degs required new driver animations as the current animations run to 720 max.

They were completed in time for last year Leipzig GC, so... Anyway, they're now done, so there are no more technical reasons to delay the upgrade. At least two patches are supposed to be released later this year, so with some luck we should be able to find out in 6 months or less

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

Here is a table of real cars, provided the data is accurate.

If indeed it is, in LFS realism would be improved in most road cars by using 900° instead of 720, and adjusting the sets for RWD cars which can go up as far as 36°.

lol without quoting everyone else, you have to think about other factors that make a car turn. Here's a question, how many tires steer the car? The answer is all 4.

Many things such as elevation, weight distribution of the car, the COG (center of gravity), brake bias, Limitied slip differentials, drivetrain layout like front engine powering rear wheels, or mid engine powering rear wheels.

Then there are the variables of the car in motion, such as how it transfers weight, braking, slip angles, tire sidewall deflection, chassis binding due to oversteer, etc.

It is a lot more complicated then just the steering settings of the front tires. In a street car, we are used to turning the wheel all the way, for things like u-turns, but in formula or le-mans cars, the steering ratio is dropped do to the time it takes to rotate the wheel. The one I drove is the Star Mazda Formula 2's, the steering never exceeded more then the 150 degrees from 0 being located in the 12 oclock position.

This is me in Turn 11, infineon raceway, in the F2000, you can see, the tires are not turned much even though it is a 185 degree u-turn with a radius of approximately 200 feet.




This is me in the same turn, bat in a TRC training car, which had stock production tires. Even with those, the wheel is turned a little more then shown above, but it never exceeded more then 150 degrees in either direction from the 12 oclock spot.

lol let me rephrase, the steering could turn more then 150 degreez, but when driving, it never exceeded that number.

Meh. I don't use more than 10 degrees.

Quote from Forbin :

Meh. I don't use more than 10 degrees.

Win
I quite like simply having the LFS wheel and my wheel turn 1:1, and the setup should have max lock on the wheels or a few degrees less. Fits me well.

Yeah, lean angle is another story. I use a lot of that, although not too much. 150 degrees on a bike means you're in trouble.