Quote from Luke.S :

try an amd athalon 64x2 processor and A nvidea 8600gt gfx card.

Please ignore this fool.

If you don't have a clue how to spell (ie it's "AMD Athlon 64 x2" and "nVidia") or what your talking about then don't post.

This is a helpful suggestion. Yours, is not.

Was going to suggest a semi-budget system that has good upgradability.
P35, 2GB DDR2-800, intel C2D E6550, Nvidia 9600GT, P182case, a corsair HX 520Watt PSU .

and one of these monitors
LG Electronics Flatron L245WP
Hyundai W241D
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
BenQ FP241W

That would allow u to plug in a much faster CPU later on and same with the GPU, so u can upgrade when u feel it's needed..but at the same time that system will run any game currently on the market.

I usually spend a bit more on the case and monitor as those are parts u will most likely still be using in 5years, unlike all the other parts which will be dated by the end of the year..no matter what u buy right now.

Sli is an utter waste if u don't insist on running Crysis on max res and quality with full AA/AF. ( it's a bad game anyhow ,but that's beside the point )
As a normal user u are better off spending money on one card now and then spending the other part in 2009 on a new generation.
The one card will run everything fine for a year and a new card in 2009 will be faster than two 9800GTX's.

I hear a lot of people saying to buy the Antec 900 casing. I own one, but you have to think it through since its not suited for everyone.

+ looks good
+ Front panel connections at a convenient place(Top, tilted a bit forward)
+ reserved space on top for your nav, mobile phone, PDA etc.
+ cooling
+ Scythe Mugen Infinity fits(but side panel fan not anymore)
+ Drive bay modules (3*5.25" bays in a removable bracket, you get 2 brackets)

- Sucks in dust like a vacuum cleaner. The front panel where I have 2 sharkoon fans is filled with dust within 2 weeks.
- Cable management non-existant. I have a modular power supply, but still inside the case it's a mess, and I have tried everything to get it done right. I also use rounded IDE cables.
- The supplied fans RPM can only be changed by a tiny switch thats connected to the fan inside the case.
- No fan RPM readout, connector is molex
- Fan LED's can't be turned off
- The motherboard backplate cannot be taken out, so mounting a mobo is a hassle.

And like others said, get a budget and go for mainstream products with mainstream prices. You'll get ~85% of the performance at ~50% of the costs. What might be important (at least for me) is power consumption. But they can be misleading, for instance for processors. Intels maximum TDP is more of an average, AMD's TDP is the absolute maximum the CPU could ever use in any circumstance, which in real world applications will mostly never be reached.
GPU's use in the whereabouts of 90-110 watts, HD3850,HD3870 as an example. Offcourse high end uses more.

Also do not exaggerate on PSU wattage rating, 450W is more then enough, as long as its an A-brand. I own a BeQuiet! Darkpower P7 pro 430W, which might be handy if you still want to buy that antec 900 casing. It can control your case fans supplied with the Antec 900, it has fan RPM readout of its internal fan and is modular. The fans spin faster as PSU load increases, mine have never spinned faster, always at lowest speed. That gives you an indication of power consumption since I own a typical mainstream system. It consists of am AMD 5600+ X2(TDP=89W), HD3870, 2*2GB Ram, 2 HD's, DVD burner.

My ATI experience (own a 9800pro and a HD3870). ATI makes hardware wise the most competitive and well rounded cards at an unsurpassed price. Only to have it ruined by the drivers . They work for most of the time, but things like getting a 3360*1050 resolution to work in span mode is a step too far it seems. The drivers don't support it, the hardware does. It's all these tiny things that ruin it a bit. Don't know about nVidia, but from what I read if you want cutting edge you need to find the right driver, which isn't necessarely the latest it seems. So seems frustating at times too.

Also go for DDR2 PC6400, or PC8500 if price is almost the same, DDR3 is too expensive and by the time it's just as affordable as DDR2 you'll probably be buying a new rig anyway.

Quote from Noccy :

Was going to suggest a semi-budget system that has good upgradability.
P35, 2GB DDR2-800, intel C2D E6550, Nvidia 9600GT, P182case, a corsair HX 520Watt PSU .

and one of these monitors
LG Electronics Flatron L245WP
Hyundai W241D
Dell UltraSharp 2408WFP
BenQ FP241W

That would allow u to plug in a much faster CPU later on and same with the GPU, so u can upgrade when u feel it's needed..but at the same time that system will run any game currently on the market.

I usually spend a bit more on the case and monitor as those are parts u will most likely still be using in 5years, unlike all the other parts which will be dated by the end of the year..no matter what u buy right now.

Sli is an utter waste if u don't insist on running Crysis on max res and quality with full AA/AF. ( it's a bad game anyhow ,but that's beside the point )
As a normal user u are better off spending money on one card now and then spending the other part in 2009 on a new generation.
The one card will run everything fine for a year and a new card in 2009 will be faster than two 9800GTX's.

Pay like 10-20 pounds more and get a bit faster 8800 GT. 9600 is better for SLI but we won't do that. And suggesting E6xx0 CPUs now is just stupid. Unless they can be had for 70 pounds or something like that. Compared to the 6550 the 8400 is more expensive, but is faster (not much), but most importantly, runs cooler and overclocks better (if needed).

Quote from Jakg :

If you want monitor added in there (or a keyboard & mouse - which i'd recommend) and keep in the budget then say and i'll update it.

Sorry for double posting but i'm lazy.

Jakg i'd change the GFX with an 8800 GT (or HD3870, both should be enough for racing games) and the CPU for a E8400. It'd be a rocking system then (or maybe the case too, didn't hear anything particularly god about it).

As far as cases. I cannot emphasize how great the Lian-Li case I have is. It's absolutely wonderful - and it keeps everything nice and cool. Plenty of room too (though it get's a bit cramped when you have 5 hard drives and every PCI slot filled... but still. SO EASY to work with - all thumbscrews, mobo tray slides out, and it's very well built. Just FYI.

By far the best case probably is a self made and designed one. It maybe doesn't have all the fancy stuff but it's as big as you need and has the things you need - space for 2 480 rads? No problem. Space for an eATX mobo? Not a problem too, neither is a problem to have 5+ HDs. And yes, this would be something along the lines of a Skulltrail with quad SLI/CF, all water cooled (both cards, both CPUs, NB, southbridges) :P And something the size of 60x60 cm

Quote from Primoz :

By far the best case probably is a self made and designed one. It maybe doesn't have all the fancy stuff but it's as big as you need and has the things you need - space for 2 480 rads? No problem. Space for an eATX mobo? Not a problem too, neither is a problem to have 5+ HDs. And yes, this would be something along the lines of a Skulltrail with quad SLI/CF, all water cooled (both cards, both CPUs, NB, southbridges) :P And something the size of 60x60 cm

Had a friend who build exactly that - it was about 80x80x80 cm... clear plexiglass, 12 fans... and sitting in the very middle at the bottom was a really cheap mobo with an Athlon 64 3000+, 1.5 gb of ram and like a 6800... it was completely ridiculous.

Guys what do you guys think of this mobo?

EVGA nForce 680i SLI Motherboard?

It is on ebay for £90.00 sealed an unopened, seems a nice deal. (well thats what my max bid is and the auction ends in about 40 mins :shrug. Then get a E6750 or Q6600 CPU and round is of with 2 x SLI linked 8800gt or 9600gt GPU.

I was going to base my system around P35 and go with an Abit IP35 or Asus PK5 E wifi mobo with a E8200 or E8400 processor with a single 9800 GX2/GTX GPU.

Pros/cons. - 1st rig is a very good deal for mobo and SLI. but heard reviews that chipset is not the best.

2nd Rig, Well probably the best cost/performance budget ratio around at the moment.

Anyway I will get one of the above with a good case of my choice and a branded 600 to 800w power supply, Vista 64 with 4G of quality Ram.

I reckon it's goin to cost me around £700, probably a bit less as I am a tight assed Scotmen and am not afraid of ebay

680i is a very VERY bad chipset. ONLY get it if you NEED SLi (although Crossfire is MUCH better).

I've been outbid on the 680i anyway so I'm going to opt for P35. why is nforce chipset so bad?

Question: If a mobo has 2 x PCI-E 2 (new type) will it not support crossfire and SLI?. I'm sure I've seen some new X38 mobos that can support both? I'm not talking about the skulltrail mobo here.

x38 ONLY supports SLi

nVidia makes chipset manufacturers pay for SLi licenses - Intel won't pay.

680i is a bad overclocker, finicky, breaks a lot and is just generaly rubbish.

Skulltrail is a bit like the Veyron - it's just for PR really and so Intel paid for the SLi licenses.

AFAIK as ATi provides the license for free or very very cheap as they want to beat nVidia's (nowhere near as good) SLi.

Hmm after some more reading, I see that quad processors (Q6600) are slightly better at higher resolution (1920 x 1200) gaming than the equivelant priced duo.

Also X38 boards supporting quad 45nm are quite affordable(ish) and will be better for future upgrading. I could also get SLI without using nforce. I still plan to only fit one gpu for the moment though.

I think this is what I am going to do now Q6600 and X38

Abit IX38 QuadGT Intel X38 (So ... -Express DDR2 Motherboard
- 45 nm Penryn CPU ready
- Intel® X38 Express
- FSB 1600
- Dual DDR2 1066/800

This seems a good specced board for around £150, it also should keep me going a couple of years as it supports many a CPU upgrade. DDR2 1066 ram should be ok for a while? I could always stick 8 meg in for when S3 comes out........ (maybe we'll be on DDR 6 by then :P) and I can SLI if I want down the line.

Any thoughts would be welcome

x38 Mobo = No SLI.

x38 supports crossfire, not SLI

Meh crossfire/SLI, im still a confused noob.....I am not planning to use either right now anyway.

OK so what other reasons are there to get X38 over P35, apart from the fact they can support better Quad CPU for 1920X1200 gaming and slightly more future proof (although I realise nothing really is).

Also, i'd get an Asus P5E (or P5E3, whichever uses DDR2). It's probably got exactly the same specs as the Abit but a bit cheaper, overclocks better.

Or, if you could find one, then a DFi LANPARTY DK X38-T2R would be amazing, but only really worth it if you plan on extreme overclocking (but it'll make your ePeen 20 feet long).

If you really wanna blow the cash then get this http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-253-AS and flash it to become a Rampage.

I'd get the P5E though.

EDIT - First of all, a Quad will not help for hi-res gaming. If a game will use more than one core (ie if it's multi-threaded) it'll use the extra CPU power and be faster. If it's not, it wont. Your chipset won't affect it.

For most users the only difference (besides the price) is that P35 has a slow second PCI-e land that makes it totally useless for Crossfire, whereas the X38 is great for Crossfire.

Quote from AlienT. :

I was going to base my system around P35 and go with an Abit IP35 or Asus PK5 E wifi mobo with a E8200 or E8400 processor with a single 9800 GX2/GTX GPU.

2nd Rig, Well probably the best cost/performance budget ratio around at the moment.

The above is probably better value right now than the X38 if I were on a budget and don't plan to upgrade too much?

Damn too many options, i'm off to play with my Xbox...

Quote from Jakg :

x38 ONLY supports SLi

nVidia makes chipset manufacturers pay for SLi licenses - Intel won't pay.

680i is a bad overclocker, finicky, breaks a lot and is just generaly rubbish.

Skulltrail is a bit like the Veyron - it's just for PR really and so Intel paid for the SLi licenses.

AFAIK as ATi provides the license for free or very very cheap as they want to beat nVidia's (nowhere near as good) SLi.

Hm....

Anywho, nVidia AFAIK won't even let 3rd party chipsets doing SLI bar the Intel server chipsets (for dual socket Xeon workstations). Skulltrail has 2 NF100 southbridges that control all 4 PCIe slots. That's why it has SLI support. No TriSLI support though... And giving CF licence to Intel was the only reaosnable thing to do. The only Intel chipset is the RD600 which wasn't much of a performer and the only mobo was the DFI one - AMD bought ATI at that time and threatened to Asus and others not to make RD600 boards.

Quote from AlienT. :

Hmm after some more reading, I see that quad processors (Q6600) are slightly better at higher resolution (1920 x 1200) gaming than the equivelant priced duo.

Also X38 boards supporting quad 45nm are quite affordable(ish) and will be better for future upgrading. I could also get SLI without using nforce. I still plan to only fit one gpu for the moment though.

I think this is what I am going to do now Q6600 and X38

Abit IX38 QuadGT Intel X38 (So ... -Express DDR2 Motherboard
- 45 nm Penryn CPU ready
- Intel® X38 Express
- FSB 1600
- Dual DDR2 1066/800

This seems a good specced board for around £150, it also should keep me going a couple of years as it supports many a CPU upgrade. DDR2 1066 ram should be ok for a while? I could always stick 8 meg in for when S3 comes out........ (maybe we'll be on DDR 6 by then :P) and I can SLI if I want down the line.

Any thoughts would be welcome

Weird, a duo should ALWYS be better for gaming (same price) since it has higher frequency and thus has more effective power - games use only 1 core.

I wouldn't get the X38 (the IX38 QuadGT was tempting me BAAAAAAAAAADLY), but DDR2 performance is generally poor on X38. DFI is said to die all the time (some Slovenians said that most of their nF4 Ultras died, same goes for some P35 - some guy had 3 dead Ultras on his hands and then went to Asus). So i say P35, DDR2 and a single GPU. And a C2D. Or if you're gonna wait some more, wait for the P45.

And no, no SLI for X38, Jakg was prolly cinfused back there. And as i said the 'i'll add another card down the line' is also generally a stupid idea. And 45 nm CPUs are supported even by 965 mobos. And these will be the last CPUs for LGA-775 - by the end of the year we'll be getting Nehalem, which will have an integrated memory controller (same as AMD) which will increase the pin number - 1066(1366 (depends on the type of CPU). So P35 it is. The X38 is more or less worth only for 16x/16x crossfire support and those extra 2% when benching.

D'oh!

x38 = CROSSFIRE only.

Quote :

Meh crossfire/SLI, im still a confused noob

Easy way to remember it.
Crossfire is for AMD/ATI graphics cards.
SLI is for nVidia graphics card.
The two are not compatible.

Alien, get yourself a nice P35 mobo. Some quality ram 4Gb, OCZ for instance. I would go for the 9800GTX or 9800GX2. 500 W branded power supply is more then enough m8. Get a good case to get them components in. This will give you the egde for a while.

Anyway I've been on e-bay and bought this lot nearly new and I'm now on the ebay search for a P5K or good deal P35 mobo and another 2G of similar RAM

Kingston HyperX 2x1GB DDR2 800MHz Dual Channel for £41
XFX GeForce 8800GTS PCI-E 320MB for £96
Core 2 Duo Processor E6750 for £86

They are probably not my ideal components but the prices are not too bad and they all come from the same PC and seem balanced enough??.

Someone else outbid me to the pK5 mobo and 10000rpm 150G HDD that were with the above, so I'll have to get them elsewhere.

Oh and I remember the days when building something remotely electronic involved a solder iron and a large hammer. Jees all the bits of these beasts plug together like lego blocks these days......I've not got round to reading about bios fiddling as yet though and god be dammed you can buy components with flashing lights nowadays...I'm sure I read somewhere that unused SATA slots can now be filled with the new "Vibrating Vagina DIMM" technology, this technology involves the connection of a 3.5" drive to your case front panel for those ultamate moments of pleasure during enemy anialation and also to release the strain of being a useless gamer should that be rquired.
This technology is in it's infancy still as it only supports vibrating frequencies of 256MHz, this clearly not enough for the extreme pervert. Dual core and, god forbit, quad core.
Vibrating Vagina DIMM (VD for short) should be onsale as soon as some bastard comes up with a self cleaning case solution.


Oh dear am I rambling

Edit...hey Niels

I'd say you got ripped off a bit on all of that tbh - I could get a an 8800GTS new for £88, 2 GB of RAM for £30 (or £35 for used Ballistix), although the CPU is ok.

Too late it's done now , I don't think I've done too badly really , The specific GPU I've got retails for a fair bit more than I payed, although I'm sure theres no noticable difference between that and the OcUK home brand that you have shown. I realise I could have gotten better RAM probably, but I will just keep those 2 in until I eventually get vista 64 then upgrade to 4Gb. That and the fact they are alraedy with the rest of the compnents.