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Alien and his non Alienware build
(68 posts, started )
Alien and his non Alienware build
I've moved this here.

I am building my frirst PC and have been asking for some assistance in other threads, I feel I am hijacking too many threads lol so I thought I'd start my own.

Backgound info summary on how I got to here

Step1 - Looking for a monitor as I'm fed up playing LFS on my laptop.
Step 2 - Being told that my laptop GPU is not up to the job at running games at high settings and 1900x1200 on any monitor, I agree
Step 3 - Convince my self that I need new PC after finding that upgrading my laptop GPU is non viable option really (It is a 6800 ultra GO I've got now).
Step - 4 It is going to be a budget system
Step - 5 Convince the Mrs that the new PC would be a benefit to the whole family (muhahaha!)
Step - 5 Start reading PC build forums for far too many hours
Step - 6 I knew it! I've talked myself into getting a better system.
Step - 7 Deciding on the components oh dear so much variety and choice of components this is where I am at.
EDIT: Step - 8 Budget £800 to £1000, I don't need a monitor or any keyboard, mouse etc.

No matter what the hardest part of this complete build proces will have been to convince my wife to let me get a desktop. (Not told her how much it's going to cost yet.
Quote from Stang70Fastback :Well, I'll start you off with a few recommendations:

RAM - Corsair XMS2 DDR2-800 4- ... 9 ($29.00 after rebates!)

HDD - Seagate Baracuda SATA 320 Gb HDD

Corsair 520W modular PSU (mayb ... r but built like a tank!)

That ought to get the ball rolling...

Keep in mind that he is in Scotland so he cannot buy from Newegg.

But- I will give a list from scan.co.uk
Also, you haven't given us a budget so I will make something a bit closer to high end.

Intel E8400
EVGA 9800GTX
Seagate 7200.11 500GB Hard drive
Antec 900 case (Not sure if this one is a mid or full tower
Corsair DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 2x1GB (Or 4GB if you order 2)
Asus SATA DVD Writer
Asus P5N-D nForce 750i SLi
ViewSonic 22" 1680x1050 2ms Widescreen monitor
Tagan 600W PSU

Edit- Well, you do have a budget, but you haven't specified how much you can spend.
Just don't get carried away with shopping for components - it's all too easy to spend a few hundred quid more than you really need to. IMO right now there's no really compelling reason to buy a fancy gaming computer because there are no especially intensive-looking titles coming out that look like must-plays.

I bought a new PC this time last year and suckered myself into spending more than I wanted to. What did the game developers offer me by way of compensation? Bioshock and Crysis. I rest my case.
Quote from thisnameistaken :Just don't get carried away with shopping for components - it's all too easy to spend a few hundred quid more than you really need to. IMO right now there's no really compelling reason to buy a fancy gaming computer because there are no especially intensive-looking titles coming out that look like must-plays.

I bought a new PC this time last year and suckered myself into spending more than I wanted to. What did the game developers offer me by way of compensation? Bioshock and Crysis. I rest my case.

Yep Kev I've got a bad tendancy to to that, all too often unfortunately.
Quote from h3adbang3r :Keep in mind that he is in Scotland so he cannot buy from Newegg.

Yeah - people always say that - but I just link to that site because it's easy for me and it's just for them to find out about the product I'm suggesting, since they'll be buying from whatever site they choose.

By the way, I see that you linked to a SATA CD drive. Can you tell me if those are any good? I ask only because I used to hear that they were full of problems somehow. Have those issues been resolved, or were they never a big deal to begin with? I'd love to eliminate that stupid ribbon cable I have at current.
Quote from Stang70Fastback :I see that you linked to a SATA CD drive. Can you tell me if those are any good? I ask only because I used to hear that they were full of problems somehow.

All my drives are SATA and I've had no issues. Maybe the issues were with the controllers on the motherboard though? So maybe you need a more modern mobo.
Since I saw that Alien is wanting to base his system on a much higher end in another thread, I'd suggest going for an EVGA 780i, 2 9800GTX's (They scale in SLi MUCH better than 8 series cards) or a single card if SLi isn't wanted, a 700W+ PSU (SLI, 600 will do fine with no SLI), a Q9550 if you want a quad, and a WD Raptor to go along with the 500GB Seagate drive I suggested.
I wrote a system quite simmilar to headbangers in the MB thread. THough seeing now, it'd be prolly the same if you bought an 8800 GT, which works fine at 1680x1050. For 24''+ LCDs an 8800 GTS would be better but since the 90800 GTX is a bit better and not that much more expensive, that would be the choice. But 8800 GT would be sufficient almost surely.

2 things i'd change in headbangers setup, as i said in the other thread, P35 board. Do not buy nForce, it's all trouble. And thinking you'll buy SLI later is just stupid. It's better to buy a new higher generation card then which will be just as fast and will consume less power and will have newer features. So P35 it is. And Antec P182 over the P900. It's a bit pain in the arseish to setup nicely (to hide the cables and all) but once it's done, it's a very nice case.
Quote from Primoz :Antec P182 over the P900. It's a bit pain in the arseish to setup nicely (to hide the cables and all) but once it's done, it's a very nice case.

I'm dead impressed with my P182, best case I've ever seen. But I wanted to keep my PC quiet so I spent a bit more on fans, PSU, case and so on - it's not a cheap box.
I found Aria to be the cheapest place for some bits and OcUK to have a larger range of bits that let me get the system I wanted. I wouldn't recommend buying from OcUK though, pretty rubbish service.

Do you really need 9800GTXs in SLI? Whilst you may be able to buy that for your £800 unless you have to have the fastest gaming computer ever made you'll probably be quite happy with an 8800GT playing all but the latest and greatest at 1900x1200 with full details and AA/AF at a fraction of the cost. You can spend a lot more than £800 and get a marginally better system than you could get for a lot less than £800, unless you're the kind of person who can't feel happy unless you've got the newest and best toy then I really don't see the point in spending lots of money.
www.Scan.co.uk are usually cheaper than Aria, although both have pretty good websites and customer service. I stopped using Aria after a bit of a disaster with CPUs.

I also can't fault www.Crucial.com for all memory needs. They have a UK site and will guarantee compatibility if you use their search tool. I had to send a whole load of RAM back and forward over the years, this prevented that. It's not always the cheapest, but I think the convenience outweighs it for memory.
Dabs are usually among the cheapest too. Worth a look.
#15 - Jakg
If you sign up to AV Forums then you can get free delivey on all orders of £20 at Scan, btw.

I buy from whichever retailer is cheapest. I like Aria, but eBuyer and Scan are also good. OcUK has a great range but rubbish service.
Well first try to think off what the new PC would be used for. Most games and programmes do not need a top of the line CPU. Do not stare yourself blind at number of cores, clockspeed or cache, you need to look at benchmarks. Toms Hardware&CPU charts give a fairly nice overview. Look for instance for a game that you might be willing to play as soon as you get the new PC, look how good processors fare with this game. Look especially in the middle. Any CPU that does not slow down a chosen game regularly below 60fps is adequate. The number 60fps is what I would choose, you can choose whatever you want, for instance 30fps or 200fps, your choice.
Maybe you want a little headroom so pick one that might be a bit overpowered, but not too much since cost rises exponentionally. As a rule of thumb AMD is cheaper in mainstream, Intel has got High-end CPU's at high-end prices. But investigate, it's only a rule of thumb and it might differ from country to country.

When you have chosen a CPU, pick your mobo. Look at what features you want like #Sata ports, #IDE ports if any, #USB ports, has it got front panel audio connectors, onboard video, serial/parallel ports, Crossfire/SLI etc.
This might be the most intensive research since mobo's generally just do what they are meant to do. Go with a brand that you trust, pick a suitable mobo and read user reviews. Repeat till you found a mobo that you think you can rely on and has the features you need

Next RAM. 2GB would be the minimum, 4GB even better. Look at your mobo specifications, has it got 4 Ram slots, then ok, if not choose antoher one. This in the light of future upgrades. I'd recommend picking 2*2GB if you want 4GB and 2*1GB if you want 2GB. Timings do matter, but not so much as everyone would like to believe. CL5 is good, CL4 is better but generally much more expensive to justify in any way.
Brand does not really matter. There are so many brands, but most of them buy their ram chips at factorys, put it on a PCB thats also bought at another factory, assebled at another factory and put their own sticker on it. What you should look for is warranty, and how it is handled. Most brands give 10+ years so that should be ok. If its got heatspreaders, fine totally unimportant

Now video. Do the same as with the CPU. There are also Toms Hardware GPU charts. Again, do not exaggarate, there is no use in having 120FPS, if 60FPS will do. Look for some suitable video cards, look at the prices and pick one. Also pick a brand you trust and that suits your needs. If you want to run nVidia SLI you need a motherboard with nVidia chipset, and you need two in most aspects identical video cards. ATI CrossfireX works (I think) on all mobo's, and does not need two identical video cards.
But running dual video cards is mostly just a waist of time, money and your nerves so I wouldn't add this as a criterium. It often does not work, only works with workarounds, works half assed, or is mostly only a marketing argument so they can put a nice sticker on the box. By the time you want to place a 2nd card in your PC there probably will allready be a video card available thats just as fast as your SLI/Crossfire rig and more cost&power efficient.

Harddrives. Well 1st you want it to be reliable, 2nd reliable and last but not least reliable. Problem is you won't find any hard, real and objective data on it. From personal experience I can say in the past I have always chosen Seagte but from the 6 drives I bought in the last 7 years 4 are dead, and the fifth is on its way too Harddrive graveyard too. Oh and they brake down always after the warranty has passed . All were used in cases with cooling in front of the hard drives, and my computers stay on for most of the day, so no constant power up/downs, still they die.
So now I went for Samsung (spinpoint T166, 500GB) but I cannot give data on reliability since I only have it a few months. But they are cheap, very silent (better than Seagate) when not reading/writing, and a bit faster. Still its not top of the line in regards to speed but adequately enough. Samsung now has Spinpoint F1 drives to replace the former drives. From benchmarks the F1 1000GB seems very fast, but he models with lower capacity do not since they use different platters.

CPU cooler, a very subjective topic, again read benchmarks. It should be quiet and provide good cooling. Personally, Zalman is overpriced and hyped, not silent at all even not at lowest speeds. For my new PC I bought a Scythe Mugen Infinity. It is unaudible and cools very good, but expensive. Though not as expensive as Zalmans coolers.

Power Supply, again very subjective topic but there are some things to look out for. First thing would be brand and price. Avoid brands like Sweex, Qtec etc. You will find they always give you high wattage at a low price. In comparison to other brands it sounds too good to be true, and in 99% of the cases it is. A power supply that has a stated power output of 450W should really deliver 450W even for hours on end and not go up in a ball of flames at 300W. Another rule of thumb, if it is heavy, it means they didn't cut on cooling blocks which are expensive. Another thing that is important but you can't really check are safety measures like overheating, overpowering, short circuiting and stability of the voltages under differing power loads.
Again some personal experience, in my younger days I did not have that much of a clue about PSU brands so mostly just went with whatever el cheapo PSU was fitted in the case. Result are several destroyed PC's.

Now when you have chosen all your parts, go back to the beginning of this post and build another system within your budget, do this a few times and put the systems next to each other. Look at what benefits and drawbacks of all setups are, and pick one. Then finetune it.
Need to get a budget fixed down mate. Confusing signals coming from £800-£1000 and then talk of 9800GX2s in SLI.

Make a budget and stick to it! (I overspent on my budget by somewhere in the region of 75% )

Oh, and once you've decided what to get and built the system buy the wife something

stry90dis' post seems to be a pretty good starting point.
#18 - Jakg
I'm going to throw something together, however i'm going to ignore your dislike of ATi cards and spend £900.

Is that including a monitor?
Quote from amp88 :Need to get a budget fixed down mate. Confusing signals coming from £800-£1000 and then talk of 9800GX2s in SLI.

If I were you I'd make £800 your absolute limit. Honestly, anything you spend over that will be in "Oh but I could have this instead, it's 2.73% better" territory. Bear in mind if you do spend a grand you'll still only have a quick PC for a year, and an average one thereafter.

Actually a friend of mine spent £3000 on his last PC - SRSLY! I spent... I think £950 on mine approx. 12 months later and got a faster machine than his. You could probably get a faster machine than mine now for £5-600.

And don't get too hung up on comparing performance benchmarks at sites like Tom's. You could waste your whole life doing that. Check a few candidates out, pick one, buy it. Those benchmarks are never the be-all and end-all anyway because half the time they're dealing with immature drivers or cards optimised for certain tests/games over others.

Yours Faithfully,

The Voice Of Reason
#20 - Jakg
If you want monitor added in there (or a keyboard & mouse - which i'd recommend) and keep in the budget then say and i'll update it.
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I recommend you get your tongue in gear and your lips puckered, to kiss your wifes ass You don't want to end up in divorce court!!!!!

Oh and since your a total muppet like me get someone else to build it
Quote from Toddshooter :I recommend you get your tongue in gear and your lips puckered, to kiss your wifes ass You don't want to end up in divorce court!!!!!

Oh and since your a total muppet like me get someone else to build it

It's refreshing to hear how much faith you have in me Todd , Remember we bosom buddies in the fight against the secretive HR skinners club, I've heard they worship goats in there. (Todd will know what I'm on about...)

Anyway on topic

Corsair 2GB (2x1024MB) PC3 10666 Dual Channel DDR3 (TWIN3X2048-1333C9DHX G) XMS3-1333 C9 DHX

Intel Core 2 DUO E8500 3.16 GHz 6MB Cache 1333FSB Socket LGA775 - Retail

Asus P5E3 Deluxe / WiFi-AP Intel X38 DDR3 Crossfire Motherboard

This is a bundle for sale for £404, I'm struggling to find many E8500's for sale so this looked interesting? any thoughts.
#23 - Jakg
Why get DDR3? Theres little point ATM, £100+ for 2GB wont be as good as 4 GB of DDR2 of DDR800 for £60 for most things you'll do.

Why are you getting a E8500? An E8400 is good "enough" and cheaper.

The P5E3 is a rocking mobo - shame that the prices swapped round (the DDR2 version (P5E) used to be £120, DDR3 version (P5E3) was £130 - now the DDR2 one is £130!)
try an amd athalon 64x2 processor and A nvidea 8600gt gfx card.
I wasn't really planning on getting DD3, i just thought that the bundle was maybe a good deal. I'll find a suitable 8400 or 8200 and some DDR2.

Alien and his non Alienware build
(68 posts, started )
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