The engine damage does not happen until much higher than the fuel cutoff.

Many times since the new patch I have found myself getting a bit...carried away when downshifting, and gone down one gear too many. It happens to me a lot in the last turn in SO6...I find myself hitting 1st instead of stopping at 2nd. Anyways, it tends to go 500 to 1000 rpm higher than the rev limiter, however it does not damage the engine. I am guessing that the engine damage is still up at the rpm from patch X. The XRT and such are practically impossible to damage because you would drive the car to 9k rpm sometimes, and it would only get damaged if you down shifted and went above that.

Now, I could be completely wrong...but I haven't gotten any engine damage since the patch, and I think with the new rev limiter telling us that the engine will be damaged if spun higher than that, we should start getting some minor damage at least 300 rpm higher than the cutoff.

I'd like to agree, but I've never tried this in my car

+1 for easier-to-damage, anyway.

Well.... I've seen alot of 'lets destroy this engine' videos on youtube, and most of them get real boring.. It takes quite some time with an enginge bouncing off the limiter for it to even show signs of distress. I'd think you'd have to REALLY abuse your engine for it to be damaged. Especially in the road cars. The race cars are closer to the structural limit and will damage more easily if abused. I guess water and oil temperatures will take care of that. rigth now revs is the only parameter we have to damage the engine by.

Quote from atledreier :

Well.... I've seen alot of 'lets destroy this engine' videos on youtube, and most of them get real boring.. It takes quite some time with an enginge bouncing off the limiter for it to even show signs of distress. I'd think you'd have to REALLY abuse your engine for it to be damaged. Especially in the road cars. The race cars are closer to the structural limit and will damage more easily if abused. I guess water and oil temperatures will take care of that. rigth now revs is the only parameter we have to damage the engine by.

But those videos I think you are talking about are always about just reving the engine on the limiter. And after all, because the limiter is there to protect the engine it does take a while.

The damage the topic starter is talking about, is damage you would have when down shifting a gear or two too much. And when you go over the rev limiter, it should really damage engine.

Scawen has mentioned doing a rework of the engine simulation I think. It should definitely include a proper damage I guess, but it could take a while we have it.

Quote from spanks :

The engine damage does not happen until much higher than the fuel cutoff.

Many times since the new patch I have found myself getting a bit...carried away when downshifting, and gone down one gear too many. It happens to me a lot in the last turn in SO6...I find myself hitting 1st instead of stopping at 2nd. Anyways, it tends to go 500 to 1000 rpm higher than the rev limiter, however it does not damage the engine. I am guessing that the engine damage is still up at the rpm from patch X. The XRT and such are practically impossible to damage because you would drive the car to 9k rpm sometimes, and it would only get damaged if you down shifted and went above that.

Now, I could be completely wrong...but I haven't gotten any engine damage since the patch, and I think with the new rev limiter telling us that the engine will be damaged if spun higher than that, we should start getting some minor damage at least 300 rpm higher than the cutoff.

No, this is actualy about right... you can do this to a rotary no problem when its only for short stints up to 9000rpm, only way to REALLY damage an engine, is when you get crazy detonation because of too much boost, and too little fuel, then shit goes BANG.

also, it depends heavily on the type of engine.... some are WAY less prone to over-revving damage than others.

Quote from atledreier :

Well.... I've seen alot of 'lets destroy this engine' videos on youtube, and most of them get real boring.. It takes quite some time with an enginge bouncing off the limiter for it to even show signs of distress. I'd think you'd have to REALLY abuse your engine for it to be damaged. Especially in the road cars. The race cars are closer to the structural limit and will damage more easily if abused. I guess water and oil temperatures will take care of that. rigth now revs is the only parameter we have to damage the engine by.

Engines built to do multiple 24 hour races will still have a huge hole left in the side of them as the rods make a break for freedom after a single accidental downshift, an easy mistake to happen in sequential cars with drivers who aren't used to them and shift the wrong way while the engines banging on the rev limiter then floor the throttle as soon as they've managed to do a downshift, I've seen it happen and it's no worse than what the fastest FOX drivers used to do deliberately round Westhill

Quote from Mako. :

No, this is actualy about right... you can do this to a rotary no problem when its only for short stints up to 9000rpm, only way to REALLY damage an engine, is when you get crazy detonation because of too much boost, and too little fuel, then shit goes BANG.

also, it depends heavily on the type of engine.... some are WAY less prone to over-revving damage than others.

errrrrrrr?

First of all, rotaries and OHC engines have nothing in common :/

and yeah, I'm talking about downshifting too soon, or too fast and going over the rev limiter. The parts inside and engine have a critical speed where they start to get hurt if spun that hard, to the point where a piston could shatter etc.

The most noticeable early damage you would see would be damaging the valve springs, making the engine less efficient.

I don't know if I was too tired when I made this thread or what...but its pretty illegible in places :/ Anyways, what I'm saying is that the rpm cutoff has been lowered, but the point where engine damage starts is still where it was in patch X, and it is impossible to get the engine to rev that high unless you go from like 4th to 1st without slowing down.

The damage I'm talking about is where the engine would start to pop and miss and be obviously less powerful than before.

I just tested the xrt, and it seems so long as you don't rev it higher than 9k rpm (the highest the tach goes) there is no noticable engine damage. This makes sense seeing as you could drive all the way to 9k rpm in patch x, but now only 7500.

I guess the thread is mostly pointless since the engine will get a complete rework soon, but if the damage point was lowered I think it might keep people from jamming down the gears so hard without consequence.

To atledreier
If you rev the engine to way over redline, it should explode. Some rods will simply break and the piston might fly out punching through the hood. You can't take care of that with water and oil temperatures, ever. There's a Youtube video where a guy revved his Eclipse to 10k, bam! And you could hear metal stuff dropping to the ground. There's another one in a motorbike drag race, who has the left hand blown off by a piston that flew out.

Yea, about to say.. come get me when LFS simulates rods and piston heads comming out of the hood.

Quote from spanks :

errrrrrrr?

First of all, rotaries and piston engines have nothing in common :/

Oh, yeah... my bad, forgot all about those things.... you see, I'm an RX-7 enthusiast, and I got kinda "lost in my own little world" when I posted that.

Yeah, piston engines+ over-rev= teh suck.

Quote from XCNuse :

Yea, about to say.. come get me when LFS simulates rods and piston heads comming out of the hood.

Oh yeah!

Hehe.. Come to me when a rotary have pistons and rods to blow...

Still, I think the simplified way rFactor does engine damage actually works. There's a factor for revs and 'life' of the engine. Going with higher oil and water temps than optimum will decrease 'life' of the engine faster than going at and under optimum. That way over-revving will bring oil temps up and thus shorten life considerably. Likewise, water temps. rF also have radiator size as a parameter, and dirty air will make the radiator less effective. Makes for more interesting racing, as going bumper to bumper for too long might bring water temps up too high and blow the engine. Also, oil temps will be too high if you constantly over-rev the engine, or ride the limiter on straights.
It's not perfect, but it's simple, and it works.

Quote from atledreier :

Hehe.. Come to me when a rotary have pistons and rods to blow...

Wait, what?

i personally think the new rpm limiter sucks, as when the old revs went to 9k rpm they sounded like they wouldnt go no more (like in real life) but now its like some crappy limiter that cuts the revs dead without loosing power..... which is crap because i listen to revs as to when to change gear and because it just stops i think theres more to come and dont change and another thing, would be cooler if the limiters bounced instead of just stop at one point

Quote from big dee :

and another thing, would be cooler if the limiters bounced instead of just stop at one point

Not all rev limiters do that, you know.

Engines can normally rev higher than the rev limiter and not be damaged, its just they can't sustain those RPMs because of engine balancing and the maximum sustained stress of the piston rods, rings, even the power shaft. If you constantly keep over reving the engine then you will notice the damage. However, it wouldn't just be power loss.

If the rings blew it would probably siez and end your race completely. Or, maybe brake a piston rod. If its a V whatever, then the rocker springs could unload and come off. etc....

Quote from legoflamb :

If its a V whatever, then the rocker springs could unload and come off. etc....

Only if it's OHV.

Quote from wheel4hummer :

Only if it's OHV.

Thats what I had implied, forgot to add that.