Test patch forum has diseppiers do i have to post here
I'm sorry if i'm wrong in anything.

After having endurance race on Fern Bay we have some new informations. FXR is clearly fastest car. XRR is slowest. There was discussion that XRR is too handicapped and now i understand what was that all about. XRR is so slow in herpins and chicanes. Only real track for that car is Westhill, Aston Historic and maybe Kyoto GP Long. Another thing for any track is that FXR tires last longest just because it has no additional weight. So FXR is fastest car, most easy to drive and it can do longest stints. Why is this the case? Maybe it's only on FE, but we have tryed this cars on Aston GP rev on CTRA server and again FXR is fast as FZR or faster :S

I suggest that devs give more power to FXR and XRR or to try this car balancing:

FXR 0 kg
XRR 20 kg (33% less then it used to be)
FZR 70 kg (12% less then it used to be)

Maybe ConeDadgers ppl will not like this, but they can set rules for their server on old settings, all other track but AS nat should have this balancing witch is perfect imo.

"I suggest that devs give more power to FXR and XRR or to try this car balancing:"

The FXR is fastest by your tests, and you want to give it even more power?

Yes, he wants to even them out in a straight line accel and top speed.

The FXR is still slowest on the ConeDodgers 10 lappers, but once the race takes on meaningful time (30mins plus) on any other track, it possesses huge advantages.


And I have to agree, FXR drivers can and do go onto the grass corner after corner with no penalty. That advantage needs to come at price.

Quote from Dalarna :

"I suggest that devs give more power to FXR and XRR or to try this car balancing:"

The FXR is fastest by your tests, and you want to give it even more power?

If you remove weight then you need to put more power into FXR.

Why not try to give the XRR some better tires? It's a good car and in the right hands it performs like a dream. It only lacks tracktion and stability out of corners. So keep the weights as they are for now and instead give the XRR a few % more grip.
FZR will still be the best on most tracks since people have favoured that car since day one. That means people know it inside and out. The FXR will still have AWD and be the safest to drive on any track. But if you give the XRR the grip it needs, it might just prove to become as popular as the other two.

not really.

Jsut because a car can be driven on the grass a bit easier than the rear drive equivalents doesnt mean it needs penalising for it

the FXR , which our team uses in all the IGTC races, and in any other GTR races, has the worst turn in, the slowest acceleration, and the lowest top end. Nuff said.

I mostly agree with N I K I (being one of the four XRR drivers in the race he's talking about), but I think that FE is a pretty bad case study for GTR balancing (and a bad venue for GTR in general).

Our GTR's are essentially slightly over powered GT3 cars right?

As such I would argue that really they're more suited on a tight FE course than AS3 or WE where they average 200kmh/120mph.


Why does this FE does not = good for GTR argument rise again and again?
(I really don't mean to contridict everything you say DWB, i just raise the question because I really enjoy the technical driving there)

FE is more of a club style track. If you look at it from a real world view, FE would not be up to standards for professional level racing. The GTR cars are similar to cars you would see in professional racing. The super high curbing is something commonly seen on older, club type tracks (at least here in the US)

FE is too tight for the GTR's mostly.

Having said that, I really like most of the FE courses except for some of the goofy chicanes and the really high curbs. There are lot of challenging corners with off-camber issues and other cool things. GTR's are just a bit crazy there though.

GT3's in the traditional sense are upper level Club racers IMO.

Our GTR's do represent a higher level of GT racing though, as GT3 IRL has gone upwards recently as well.

Still they are no-where near GT1 machines, which is what I believe would be out of place on a FE track.

Speaking of ConeDodgers/AS3 24/7/365: If any changes in the GTR class balancing do not suit ConeDodgers' AS3 server, they could just use a system like CTRA's where INSIM regulates handicap useage.
In fact, they could just use that regardless of the handicap system, for the laptimes to be perfectly even.

I agree the XRR could use more contact patch. This and better turbos for it and the FXR were two of the better ideas in class balancing threads preceding the handicap system.

Actually the reduction by 10kg for FZR and XRR was something I mentioned in the thread based on AS3 usage on Conedodgers CD2. Admittedly I only mentioned that a 10kg reduction for the FZR could perhaps be justified from the stats gathered on CD2. The reduction of FZR ballast was as a result of car usage though rather than lap times as on AS3 the FZR does enjoy a healthy advantage over 10 laps.

I am surprised that an endurance race results supports the reduction of the XRR ballast given the responses I received from the endurance fans when I suggested it based on the results of sprint racing on CD2. Their views that the XRR would clean up over longer distances doesn't seem to be supported by your findings even when the track choice is factored in to the equation.

It is nice to get another factually based view though so thanks for posting N I K I

Maxim

Quote from MaximUK :

I am surprised that an endurance race results supports the reduction of the XRR ballast given the responses I received from the endurance fans when I suggested it based on the results of sprint racing on CD2. Their views that the XRR would clean up over longer distances doesn't seem to be supported by your findings even when the track choice is factored in to the equation.

It is nice to get another factually based view though so thanks for posting N I K I

Maxim

I thought that XRR tires can last longer (it was like that before balancing) but now this ballast affect a lot on tires age, so fzr and xrr needs less weight

Quote from X-Ter :

Why not try to give the XRR some better tires? It's a good car and in the right hands it performs like a dream. It only lacks tracktion and stability out of corners. So keep the weights as they are for now and instead give the XRR a few % more grip.
FZR will still be the best on most tracks since people have favoured that car since day one. That means people know it inside and out. The FXR will still have AWD and be the safest to drive on any track. But if you give the XRR the grip it needs, it might just prove to become as popular as the other two.

That's what I'm hoping happens eventually. It seems that with some slightly wider rear tires and a bit less turbo lag the XRR would be a bit quicker and lot more popular.

Quote from N I K I :

I thought that XRR tires can last longer (it was like that before balancing) but now this ballast affect a lot on tires age, so fzr and xrr needs less weight

It's also worth noting that our XRR was running R3s as opposed to your FZR's R2s. We might have been able to get the R2s to work given another day of setup time, but it didn't work out in the short term.

It's also worth noting that the IGTC features a Safety Car and full course cautions in incidents where cars might be stuck/hazardous on the course. This often dictates pit strategies. As such, we've yet to have races that yield long enough green flag runs to really determine any apparent endurance-created performance differences.

Something like MOE would show over a set time of Green Flag Lapping if one car gained advantage.

The problem is (after doing a 4 hour enduro last night on ASGP). FXR long race pace isnt too bad but you need tyres that will not wear too quick the average stint for this was around 45-50 minutes. XRR perfect car hence P1 and P2 in the overall standings at the end. Fast, consistant + R2's lasted over an hour. FZR wasnt even raced by anyone because of the fuel burn and wear it wasnt worth the extra stops.

Quote from Unforgiven :

FZR wasnt even raced by anyone because of the fuel burn and wear it wasnt worth the extra stops.

That's what i'm talking about.FZR is too punished... Even XRR isn't fast enought