I dont have a 360 but I just saw a video review of Forza Motorsport 2 and it looks freakin awesome.... I love LFS but that game looks hard to resist... what do u think of it... i just feel bad that LFS might get jealous... plus driving with a gamepad will feel so dirty

Quote from drinklime :

Iwhat do u think of it...

Forza 2 is the fake, inflated blonde of driving games. Nice to look at and fun to screw around with, but in the end entirely without substance.

...which is fine of course, if you're into that sort of thing.

I think that we had this thread before
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=27772
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=25328

Quote from wien :

Forza 2 is the fake, inflated blonde of driving games. Nice to look at and fun to screw around with, but in the end entirely without substance.

...which is fine of course, if you're into that sort of thing.

That's actually not true at all. Forza 2 is one of the best modern sims I've played, ranking just behind LFS, GPL, and RBR for me in terms of realism. Have you ever tried it with a Force Feedback wheel? The physics are actually quite good, just because it happens to be on a console doesn't mean it sucks.

Quote from 96 GTS :

That's actually not true at all. Forza 2 is one of the best modern sims I've played, ranking just behind LFS, GPL, and RBR for me in terms of realism. Have you ever tried it with a Force Feedback wheel? The physics are actually quite good, just because it happens to be on a console doesn't mean it sucks.

I don't know, I just didn't get the right feeling in it. I was using a normal controller, that's true, but I played LFS with one for about 2 years before I got my wheel and to me that felt so much more grounded and "right".

Hard to explain really, but there was just something off about it. Maybe it's just me.

Quote from wien :

I don't know, I just didn't get the right feeling in it. I was using a normal controller, that's true, but I played LFS with one for about 2 years before I got my wheel and to me that felt so much more grounded and "right".

Hard to explain really, but there was just something off about it. Maybe it's just me.

I know exactly what you mean actually, at least I think so. Do you mean like how in LFS, it actually feels like the car is solidly attached to the ground, wheras in GTR, the car feels kinda like it's floating above the ground?

For me, Forza feels very solid and right, the cars seem planted on the ground, they don't do bizarre things when they get air on the Nürburgring. On the other hand, Gran Turismo feels very much like GTR for me, I get this really weird detached feeling from all the cars, like they're not actually on the track.

It's all down to feel, really, but I quite like Forza.

Forza 2 is actually the reason I'm here.

I tried LFS back in 2005 and quit about 2 days later. When Forza 2 came out, I really got hyped about racing again and got like 10 different racing games/simulators. The one that stood out for some reason was LFS.

I bought it like 4 days ago.

I got Forza 2 when it came out, and I've not been disappointed. There are some things that could use changing (the Career mode uses the same tracks too often) and I can't believe that the skinning tool doesn't let you add full words, but it's a pretty sturdy product.

I like the balance between sim and arcade. It's easy to pick up, but when you get online you discover how much you actually suck. Just like LFS

So as far as sims go, LFS is still way in front. But I think Forza 2 is definitely the start of the switch from ZOMGT3HNOSSSS games to actual simulations.

Quote from 96 GTS :

I know exactly what you mean actually, at least I think so. Do you mean like how in LFS, it actually feels like the car is solidly attached to the ground, wheras in GTR, the car feels kinda like it's floating above the ground?

Yep, that's exactly it. I don't feel like I'm controlling a physical (albeit virtual) object. The fact that it doesn't even follow basic Newtonian physics (you can't flip no matter how forces hit your car) just ruins it for me.

A little video that illustrates what I mean: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=q_hho2EtX4Y Look at the way the car turns when it first catches the car in front. I get no sense of weight transfer, suspension load, all these basic things LFS does do well. There is no substance to the car, it just turns... All this could very well be simulated in there somewhere, but I just don't feel it.

forza is the reason i play simulators... , grand turismo feels fake'r then need for speed ands lfs is quite a bit like forza ( apart from some glitchs which are getting ironed out by the dev's ) but id love a xbox 360 so i could get that and flatout

Quote from wien :

Yep, that's exactly it. I don't feel like I'm controlling a physical (albeit virtual) object. The fact that it doesn't even follow basic Newtonian physics (you can't flip no matter how forces hit your car) just ruins it for me.

A little video that illustrates what I mean: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=q_hho2EtX4Y Look at the way the car turns when it first catches the car in front. I get no sense of weight transfer, suspension load, all these basic things LFS does do well. There is no substance to the car, it just turns... All this could very well be simulated in there somewhere, but I just don't feel it.

I really don't mean to come off as a Forza fanboy, I'm really not, I just feel like it gets less respect than it deserves.

What you showed in the video is a valid point, but it really all changes with a wheel, it really does. Those jerky steering inputs you see with someone using a gamepad are gone, the car looks much more fluid, and then you can really feel the physics.

Oh, and as for the flipping thing, that's one of big downsides of having licensed cars, not all manufacturers want to see their cars flipped, so as soon as they hit 70 degrees roll angle, the physics engine just says, "apply whatever force necessary to keep the car from rolling further." Kinda dumb.

If I knew how to make videos with my Xbox, I'd make one of me around the Nuerburgring with my wheel, it really does look better.

Quote from 96 GTS :

Oh, and as for the flipping thing, that's one of big downsides of having licensed cars, not all manufacturers want to see their cars flipped

And that's big downside of todays game developement... telling bullshit lies I mean. There's some truth in it but it's still excuse. This whole "car manufactorers don't allow us to damage the cars" has been really funny joke... Gran Turismo developers said it for years, despite game world already knowing many many many games with damage (and rolling cars).

Quote from deggis :

And that's big downside of todays game developement... telling bullshit lies I mean. There's some truth in it but it's still excuse. This whole "car manufactorers don't allow us to damage the cars" has been really funny joke... Gran Turismo developers said it for years, despite game world already knowing many many many games with damage (and rolling cars).

I think it's bullshit too. I wasn't condoning it, it's most definitely an excuse. It'd be nice if they just dropped whatever manufacturers didn't want their cars rolled

No Ferraris would be fine with me...

but isnt there damage anyway?

i actually have a broken xbox, the power supply light turns red after a minute... so maybe i just need to "acquire" a new power supply

FM2 is fun, but buggy. Not cool when your profile gets corrupted and you lose all your cars, paintjobs and progress. But it is pretty good. Maybe with some patches/fixes and a hardcore mode with the 12+ car option with track visuals turned down, it could really set some new standards.