Hi all! I came up with an idea a good while back now about changing the driver's etiquette when competeting with one another and also, when not racing. As we all know, a common thing you see in all motorsports and almost all other forms of competetion or sports are mind games. Personally, I'm not the man for them. I tend to try and be a nice friendly guy who doesn't get cocky and doesn't throw in sly comments here and there. For a while about a couple of months ago, I decided to try and mess with people's heads but I found out that I wasn't pleased with how I was behaving and also, the competitors who some of them were friends didn't like it so I put a stop to it. I was simply experimenting a different side of my character that I found was bad and will never return to. Anyway, what I'm saying is that what happens if a rule would be introduced to prevent mind games between drivers occurring, something to prevent the dirty side of the sport and if a driver was to break that rule, they'd get punished (1 race ban, a fine). I would really love to see that in motorsport, it would make the sport so much more noble. Thats for the driver's etiquette when interacting with each other. As for the track, well, I think that drivers should get punished for unfair maneuvers that can either lead to an accident or squeezing a driver off the track, we all know that we hate it. I know that all this seems quite far fetched and unlikely to happen and that if this were to be introduced, it would radically change how motorsports were for the past 80 years. Its a concept that I thought I'd like to share and interested to see what people think of it.

Don't mind, but the way some drivers express their views can change my opinions on them, which I think is a good thing.

I don't really mind really, do you have a concrete example of a mind-game though?
It's sort of the case that if someone acts like a c*ck for the sake of playing a mind-game, I'll just think of them as c*cks from then on. Unless it's obvious that it's not their personality doing the work

Still, an example would be nice

To be honest, I don't quite understand what this thread is about? Behaving like a prick for the sake of being a prick? Changing the way you act just to see how people react? I don't get it

You mean like how boxers try to mess with each other before a fight (and also to hype the fight up a load)?
I don't get why you'd want to stop that, and I don't think it had a negative effect, particularly not in motor-racing. It's all part of the sport. If someone says something to make themselves look like a big-mouthed cocky fool, then that's their choice.

I remember a quote from somewhere... Think it was Jackie Stewart saying how, when totally absorbed by a race, he knew if a car had spun off on the other side of a blind corner, because he could smell the cut grass...

Sports psychologists have known about and documented the enhanced state of mind that some sportsmen can reach, but I think maybe Jackie, the gentleman racer, was indulging in a bit of gamesmanship here

Why would you want to take this kind of mythology out of the sport? Its about wo/man and machine... Reducing the human element of the sport would be turning the drivers into token pieces of meat. There's enough corporate pressure for drivers to be squeaky clean and TV friendly as it is.

I remember Scott Speed indeed got a fine by bad mouthing couthard in one race?

Racing drivers, probably more than any other sportsmen and women, have to make concessions to their competitors; giving room for an opponent's car, slowing down for yellows, etc. That's as much cooperation as I care to see.

Competition is always more interesting when you know the competitors don't particularly like eachother. Even if they do get along, I think there should be a rule that forces them to talk shit about eachother in the press inbetween events anyway, just for laughs.

look how boring an bland f1 is today compared to the senna prost days and rethink

two thoughts:

1) nice guys finish last

2) locking the front door only keeps honest people out while the burglars come through the window

in other words, the more rules you implement, the bigger advantage you give to people who are good at playing games and pushing the boundaries of the rules. so there's no winning, really. just learn to deal with it.

Quote from evilgeek :

two thoughts:

1) nice guys finish last

2) locking the front door only keeps honest people out while the burglars come through the window

in other words, the more rules you implement, the bigger advantage you give to people who are good at playing games and pushing the boundaries of the rules. so there's no winning, really. just learn to deal with it.

LoL! what an awfull way to think.

There's only winning some of the time, and competetive sports ain't about winning it's about taking part, .....really.

@ OP,

even chess-pro don't shower 2 weeks before a tournament to irritate their opponents. and chess is considered as one of the noble-sports. polo-players hit their opponents and tennis isn't noble since the venus sisters start to look like men in dresses.

so why should the racing sport be considered as noble? its dirty, full of oil and fuel and mind games are part of the action imo. you can talk a lot but first you have to bring it on the road.

and at the end of the day when the race is settled we all go for a chat or a beer or 2

Being on the end of your 'experiment' lep I can say I definately do not like mind games when they are serious. When a bit of jokey banter about lap times and crashes is happening between friends its quite funny, but when people are serious about it then it has an effect on peoples enjoyment of the event. It wears on people and creates a bad atmosphere which eventually boils over.

With that in mind I voted for the 3rd option, I don't like mind games, but you can't exactly stop them as its down to the people doing it. If you choose to play mind games then be it on your conscience, don't be suprised if you end up with a shiney cup but no friends. You obviously have not seen the film Cars

Quote from Fischfix :

even chess-pro don't shower 2 weeks before a tournament to irritate their opponents. and chess is considered as one of the noble-sports.

First, please put capitals where they should be. Secondly, even if your chess comment i REMOTELY true (which I highly doubt), it's ultimately stupid because of the health nightmares you inflict on yourself and the fact that if the opponent runs the same stupid stunt, it'll fail miserably.

The problem with stupid and uncivillized bhavior is that if it gets normal, it loses all it's ability to psyche anyone out. All that stupidity for naught. All you would have done is make your sport look bad without any improvements in competitiveness, so why bother with this trashy and self destructive path?

i think mind games are and should be allowed to a certain extent

once there ( the other racers ) are not swearing or highly offensive then i dont see a problem

Quote from Jamexing :

First, please put capitals where they should be. Secondly, even if your chess comment i REMOTELY true (which I highly doubt), it's ultimately stupid because of the health nightmares you inflict on yourself and the fact that if the opponent runs the same stupid stunt, it'll fail miserably.

The problem with stupid and uncivillized bhavior is that if it gets normal, it loses all it's ability to psyche anyone out. All that stupidity for naught. All you would have done is make your sport look bad without any improvements in competitiveness, so why bother with this trashy and self destructive path?

That made no sense whatsoever.

Mind games are part of every sport, i don't see a problem with it, actually i used to quite enjoy watching other people trying to intimidate me.
LFS is on the most part is like gentleman's racing, however that doesn't reflect RL racing in the slightest.
Real racing is a "cut-throat" sport, every man for himself (unless in a team situation) and sometimes extremely aggressive. It's part of the adrenaline rush.
It would be great if LFS racing was harder, and more aggressive, sometimes i do get races like that but mostly with RL racers.
There's too much "nicey, nicey" around if you ask me, you can race hard and still be friends after

Quote from nikimere :

It would be great if LFS racing was harder, and more aggressive, sometimes i do get races like that but mostly with RL racers.
There's too much "nicey, nicey" around if you ask me, you can race hard and still be friends after

im sure things will change dramatically once not leaving ample room doesnt automatically put you en route for the moon

Quote from Leprekaun :

For a while about a couple of months ago, I decided to try and mess with people's heads but I found out that I wasn't pleased with how I was behaving and also, the competitors who some of them were friends didn't like it so I put a stop to it. I was simply experimenting a different side of my character that I found was bad and will never return to.

lmao, your still doing it. is this how you justify your actions? (that's very hollywood of you) by pretending that you thought the whole thing up and there isn't actually something wrong with your personality? get over yourself m8.

At the level of pro racing, where the stakes are high, it's inevitable that mind games will be played. But at recreational levels? In a SIM?!?

In my not-so-very-humble opinion any LFS player who is willing to spoil the fun of his opponents by playing dirty tricks, just to gain a few places, ought to have his head examined.

Thankfully, I've never seen anyone doing this online. But if I did, I wouldn't race him again. He can have the bleeding podium all to himself.

I'm saying that mind games don't work well on seasoned racers. Some competitive speak is good for racing as it adds to the competitive atmosphere. But to resort to insults and stupidity puts a sport down the drain. No, yelling profanity and shouting random insults won't speed you up or slow a disiciplined racer down. It just makes you look like an uncivillized idiot.

Resorting to dirty tricks won't do LFS any good too. When was the last time a decent LFS player bought the license to wreck massive havoc and turn fun races into sick jokes?

Of course, there are wreckers and incessantly swearing/insulting nutcases that could use a visit to the assylum, though thankfully they seem very rare among licenesed LFS racers.

I think some people might be getting mixed up here...

There's a HUGE difference between wrecking or acting like a 10 year old and mind games or hard racing.

Quote from nikimere :

I think some people might be getting mixed up here...

There's a HUGE difference between wrecking or acting like a 10 year old and mind games or hard racing.

oh not at all
what i meant was that hard racing usually involves fighting for every millimetre of track and lets face it if anyone makes the slightest mistake at that there is going to be contact ... and in lfs that usually involves being trown into a wall

Mind games are not necessarily insults or sledging. Every human being engages in some form of subterfuge every time they meet or engage another human being. We can't help it, it's part of our survival kit.
In racing it is just as useful to portray an image of strength in oneself as it is to plant suspicions and doubt in your opponent about their own abilities or equipment.

In any competitive endeavour between people it is usual to see phsychological contests being waged before, during, and after the event. It's a normal part of human competition.

Sledging might loosely fall under the heading of "mind games" but is not usually acceptable behaviour in any sport.

Mind games are vital to every sport. That's all I have to say.