I've been watching some 'hotlaps' lately and it astounds me how much of the track you can (have to) use to get those quick times.

Like in blackwood, for T1 (the first slow righthander) people do most their braking on the curbs on the extreme left of the track. After the long straight, the two righthanders, people will often drive way out on the rumblethingies on the left. Before SF, in the approach of the left/right uphill turn, people tend to clobber the right side of the track.

There is no way this would be done in real life? Curbstones are not so dependable, and even if they'd have the same amount of grip as tarmac has, the wobbling about would definitely unsettle things. In general the dirt / dust / stones you would find outside the 'normal track' would really stop you from doing these things..

I hope future LFS versions will keep the racing on the grey stuff a bit more!

To my knowledge LFS kerbs are very smooth compared to most you'd see on real race tracks. The problem with making them sharp edged like real life is the tracks wouldn't work in reverse unless LFS could reverse them.

I'd personally like to see some kerbs become more viloent than what we have already so you'd have to learn the ones you can and can't run on.

I've thought about this a few times myself and I agree with you on braking especially. I can't remember any occasions in real life racing where drivers would use kerbs on braking (or where there would be an advantage gained from using the kerbs). However, there are occasions in real life when running over the kerbs and onto the grasscrete/astroturf is advantageous and drivers do use it (e.g. Formula 1 at the old variante alta chicane at Imola). Drivers in F1 often put the inside wheels onto the kerb to drag the front round or reduce understeer, and I believe this is accurately reproduced in LFS.

So, in summary (since my post is all over the place), I reckon at the moment the kerbs are too smooth and allow unrealistic use under braking.

Quote from keiran :

To my knowledge LFS kerbs are very smooth compared to most you'd see on real race tracks. The problem with making them sharp edged like real life is the tracks wouldn't work in reverse unless LFS could reverse them.

In real life, most kerbs are shaped like this /| /| /| but in LFS we could have kerbs like this /\ /\ /\ to avoid the problem with reverse tracks.

But I think it's more a problem of the collision detection, as I think sharp kerbs in LFS may send you to the moon under certain situations.

Quote from ATHome :

In real life, most kerbs are shaped like this /| /| /| but in LFS we could have kerbs like this /\ /\ /\ to avoid the problem with reverse tracks.

The kerbs are already like this

I think the biggest problem is that the the tracks in LFS have the braking points always on the straights so it is quite easy to use the kerbs for braking. It is rare thing that you need to brake in a corner (the radius is either too big or the corner has lots of "camber"), by braking in a corner I mean corners like the T1 of Ky3R or T1 at We1R. Drive few real life tracks in other sims and you won't even find many places on those tracks where the brakíng points are so straight, not bumpy and the kerb is so fine and straight and all. Fern bay and Aston, for example, are all about braking over kerbs. In kyoto you need to think a bit as the tracks have more variance. There are parts in south city where you don't want to brake over kerb either but again it is the track design that causes it...

i want to have the ability to damage my wheels on them.
iirc in one of the first demos of S2 it happend to me a few times that i blew up my tires when hitting a kerb badly.
and yea, they need to be more "useless"

Quote from keiran :

...wouldn't work in reverse unless LFS could reverse them.

Good idea.

If the choices were reversed tracks or realistic curbs, i'd take the curbs.

Most annoying thing are the "chicanes" in any track, just ram over the curbs and cross your fingers that you won't get flipped over that happens once in a while completely randomly... I wonder would making suspension damage simply twice as sensitive as it is now stop doing that.

There are plenty of circuits with fairly generous kerbs on the side in braking areas. Look at the Bahrain GP circuit for a fairly relevant example.

I think of course there are some compromises for reversed tracks, but there's nothing fundamentally wrong with any of the LFS circuits (imo).

I think we should have more tire damage and suspension damage. More damage in general actually... Most of the curbs in lfs are weak, the main purpose of them now, is to allow you to cut corners more in hotlaps with out invalidating your laps. I am crossing my fingers fo patch X to have a much better damage model.

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

iirc in one of the first demos of S2 it happend to me a few times that i blew up my tires when hitting a kerb badly.

Hmm... I don't think you remember correctly! :nol2:

Kerbing, striping, banding and painted lines are MUCH more slippy IRL than in LFS

Damage is another point, you'd really give especially single seaters a VERY hard beating if you ran over them the way you can do in LFS. But human damage too.. Your teeth will fall out!

I do wonder how it can be so stable in LFS though, its as if braking fully on the kerbs is just as optimal even though the load on the tyres will not be constant. I'd expect a tyre to spend perhaps even some time in free air if you'd have a superslomo to watch. But even with LFS's rumble (some kerbs do seem to make the car shake indicating they're not flat) it doesn't upset braking..

Its a minor thing, I hope tyres get improved much more than this.

I remember when my local kart track (at the time) extended the width of a kerb on a very fast kerbed kink further into the grass. All the drivers, particularly me, complained that the kerb was too violent and was upsetting the karts.

It had to be pointed out to us that the 'trackside' edge of the kerb had not been changed at all, and that previously we had been hanging our inside wheels completely over the kerb, which had been making a muddy rut in the ground.

Racing at [proper circuit] Snetterton on the outside of turn 2 at the exit there is/was some broken tarmac, I dont know if it's still there but I should think it is. It's not part of the track but it was part of my racing line.

I see no reason why motor racing should be limited to smooth tarmac...

Quote from Becky Rose :

I see no reason why motor racing should be limited to smooth tarmac...

Bingo! Well so long as you have at least 2 wheels on the track.

Not trying to sound like a smartarse but......

Alot of F1 Drivers use the curbs for the hotlaps, either turning though i remember there was one race i think in Jerez where they did use the curbs whilst braking.

Also Single seaters are desinged for curbs but its the touring cars that have a bad problem with curbs, i went to brands hatch and someone went over the curbs whilst there tyres were cold and the tyre exploded (not like kaaboom type thing but that it went out of shape and made it buckle) , so wether the tyres react at different tempretures as well i dont know but i think that would make racing more interesting if they have that in them.

Quote from AndroidXP :

The kerbs are already like this

But have no sound representing the graphical aspect (the car shakes like crazy when you drive over them).. it's a real immersion killer to hear absolutely nothing when you drive over them.. not even normal tyre / road type noise least of all an expected rumble

Some things in LFS are done extremely well, such as the feeling of the FFB.. other things, I don't know what was being thought (if anything was).. I know the sounds are the least developed in LFS, but apparently an extra sound was added to the car engine in a recent patch, but surely that'd have been far more useful to add that extra sound to somewhere else in the environment.



Regards,

Ian

Quote from Ian.H :

it's a real immersion killer to hear absolutely nothing when you drive over them..

I can hear my wheel rattling at least

Right. For those of you who don't know exactly what Ian is talking about, listen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiacYoi9D_M

Every time i drive on kerbs i hold my breath not to break the wheel because it's just overwhelmingly loud. Don't care about adding the sound for kerbs.

Some of you must be using pretty strong ffb settings. I usually hardly feel the rattling through my wheel, let alone hearing it. (Still waiting for a linearity slider added to the wingmanteam driver. I've got a feeling they won't be doing anything about it, though ).

I'm using 110% in the logitech profiler and 200% in LFS. I have a momo.

That's plenty, I suppose. I'm using around 105% in the profiler and 25% to 35% ingame on a DFP. To me, with these settings the overall force on turning feels much more natural than when FFB is set higher ingame, but it is too week to really feel the curb-rumbling most of the time.

It's not just the feeling.. personally I have some of the g-force sliders turned up and the likes.. when driving over the rumble strips, the graphical representation of the car at least from inside the cockpit (not checked the arcade views) is cool as the interior shakes about giving the impression the strips aren't of the smooth curb type (except at Fern Bay).. but that's it, graphical but not audible.. I'd expect a deep rumbling "rip" sound if travelling at a reasonable speed.. and should be loud too (you can hear this effect on various motorways at least in the UK if you want to test it where they have a painted line and small raised ribs to alert the driver audibly when you're half asleep).



Regards,

Ian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botts_dots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumble_strip

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :goodvibes

Also, you can hear them things from outside of a car; you should be able to hear when other cars are on rumble strips in LFS.